Africa is just not for me

[Hogpatrol]

You could pet Buffalo at Zim?
Also, if your PH couldn’t get you closer than 200 yards to game maybe you need a PH that got his license from a bit more rigorous program than those offered at RSA.

I think he'd take exception to that characterization. My multiple RSA hunts PH has his own venue in Tanzania and returns to his home in RSA for part of the year and free lances. IIRC, he's pushing 50 and has been a DG ph for many years. As far as the 200 meters, some of us don't need to get within 50 meters to hit a target as big as a pickup truck or a travel trailer.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The cost of killing them, i.e, double, triple, or even more multiples of hunting them versus RSA.


Here's an old thread that may shed some light on one country.

Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it?

Forgive my ignorance as I will only be on my first safari (Botswana) this September and then RSA in June 2020 for my second (17 days). Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it? I’ve tried to find out why, and can only assume bc it is still free range? I know most stuff...

www.africahunting.com

Wow! $55-65K for a 21 day hunt, plus trophy fees! I'm sure it's well worth the cost for those that can afford it, but I and probably 98% of the hunters worldwide couldn't or wouldn't. For the rest of us, hunting RSA or Namibia "game ranches" (I hunted a 75,000 acre one) is our only financially viable option and I'm thankful for it. I only saw fences upon leaving or entering the property and no internal fences. I've hunted pronghorn here and in Wyoming with more barbed wire fences in and around the ranches than the African game ranch I hunted! Anyway, I'm not sure ANY African hunting could survive without the game ranches and only 2% of the current hunters travelling to Tanzania or anywhere else in Africa on an expensive free range hunt. Who would be left to support SCI? We have a similar issue here in the US with hunters being able to find a PLACE to hunt. In states without much public hunting land available and as more and more private property becomes off limits to public hunters without exorbitant hunting fees, the hunters say screw it and take up golf. Look at the continually declining numbers of hunters here is the US. Accessibility and/or excessive fees to hunt are leading the decline. I hope the RSA/Namibia game ranches stay viable, as I surely would like to hunt Africa again and they are for me my only financially available option. Rant over.

 

[Hunt anything]

Wow! $55-65K for a 21 day hunt, plus trophy fees! I'm sure it's well worth the cost for those that can afford it, but I and probably 98% of the hunters worldwide couldn't or wouldn't. For the rest of us, hunting RSA or Namibia "game ranches" (I hunted a 75,000 acre one) is our only financially viable option and I'm thankful for it. I only saw fences upon leaving or entering the property and no internal fences. I've hunted pronghorn here and in Wyoming with more barbed wire fences in and around the ranches than the African game ranch I hunted! Anyway, I'm not sure ANY African hunting could survive without the game ranches and only 2% of the current hunters travelling to Tanzania or anywhere else in Africa on an expensive free range hunt. Who would be left to support SCI? We have a similar issue here in the US with hunters being able to find a PLACE to hunt. In states without much public hunting land available and as more and more private property becomes off limits to public hunters without exorbitant hunting fees, the hunters say screw it and take up golf. Look at the continually declining numbers of hunters here is the US. Accessibility and/or excessive fees to hunt are leading the decline. I hope the RSA/Namibia game ranches stay viable, as I surely would like to hunt Africa again and they are for me my only financially available option. Rant over.

I’m in that boat, back in 2014 I did a buffalo, sable, nyala , warthog And bushbuck safari for 10 days wit a charter to camp in Mozambique. That 10 days in paradise cost just over 20,000$, I looked it up a couple of weeks ago and the same hunt would run me about 35,000$.

 

[Vintageguy]

Wow! $55-65K for a 21 day hunt, plus trophy fees! I'm sure it's well worth the cost for those that can afford it, but I and probably 98% of the hunters worldwide couldn't or wouldn't. For the rest of us, hunting RSA or Namibia "game ranches" (I hunted a 75,000 acre one) is our only financially viable option and I'm thankful for it. I only saw fences upon leaving or entering the property and no internal fences. I've hunted pronghorn here and in Wyoming with more barbed wire fences in and around the ranches than the African game ranch I hunted! Anyway, I'm not sure ANY African hunting could survive without the game ranches and only 2% of the current hunters travelling to Tanzania or anywhere else in Africa on an expensive free range hunt. Who would be left to support SCI? We have a similar issue here in the US with hunters being able to find a PLACE to hunt. In states without much public hunting land available and as more and more private property becomes off limits to public hunters without exorbitant hunting fees, the hunters say screw it and take up golf. Look at the continually declining numbers of hunters here is the US. Accessibility and/or excessive fees to hunt are leading the decline. I hope the RSA/Namibia game ranches stay viable, as I surely would like to hunt Africa again and they are for me my only financially available option. Rant over.

You hit the nail on the head imo! If you took the fenced ranches of Namibia and RSA out of the picture all safari hunting would be gone in no time. There wouldn’t be enough voices and money to keep the antis at bay. Like I tell folks here about shutting out nonresident hunters from the west, “if the club’s door is closed to the masses do you think the masses will care when someone wants to close the club?”
It’s ridiculous for anyone to say, “you haven’t hunted unless you did it here or there”.
Great hunts and bad hunts can be had anywhere the game is and it doesn’t mean squat what stamp is on your passport. Those who have had a bad experience probably didn’t do their homework properly. I had a specific idea of how I wanted to hunt a buffalo and I had a wife who wanted to accompany me I had to consider.
I had the buffalo hunt I’d dreamed of all my life in RSA and the overall experience for my wife has made her literally mention going back and hunting every day since we got home. I seriously can’t imagine a hunt topping it anywhere. The biggest plus is I have hope of going back due to what it would cost there.

 

[Inline6]

I would not call farmers keeping livestock conservation per se. The money goes to the farmers and through them to their employees etc.. Nothing wrong with that, however calling livestock operations conservation is a stretch.

You should read the year end report of an outfit like CMS in Zimbabwe to appreciate what real conservation really looks like.

Also, the reason hunting is more expensive in other countries than RSA is not just government corruption but limited quota (due to conservation). Unlike RSA they can’t just order up a lion for you to shoot in a span of a few days. They actually have to hunt for it .Sometimes unsuccessfully.

A lot more animals would be on a very short list or off it completely if not for the ranches (Bontebok comes to mind). I hear the same thing in Texas, killing them in a pen. I have seen both sides, some hunters really just want to shoot to get a count so to speak. Other really want to hunt. If dropped off in the middle of a 50,000 acre ranch you will be hard pressed to get to a fence in one day. Homework is required just like buying anything else that you are going to spend good money on. I interviewed several PHs before I made the decision. It was everything we talked about and then some. Would you have been happy? I can't answer that only you can. My son and I had some moments together that I hope will last with me til I'm gone. Made some life long friends along the way. Everyone has their expectations and no one should compromise on that. Saying that RSA is not a real place to hunt is not the right message either. What is the ratio 6:1 RSA for new hunters? With hunters numbers on the decline we need as many as we can get to Africa. With out them Africa hunting will fade away.

 

[Inline6]

And for perspective 640² acres equals a square mile...

 

[Tanks]

As far as the 200 meters, some of us don't need to get within 50 meters to hit a target as big as a pickup truck or a travel trailer. View attachment 480205

When did you shoot an elephant and a buffalo at 200 meters?
In the areas I hunt in Zimbabwe foliage wouldn’t permit that kind of a shot, not that I’d take it. Kill zone on an elephant is not the size of a pickup truck but about the size of a football, and my .500 is not a 200 meter gun.
Guess, I could come to RSA with a .50 BMG, park at a bench at the porch and snipe at DG half a mile away all day long, but not my type of hunting. But nothing wrong with that for you and others that prefer to snipe at distance.

By the way “livestock “ does not equate to pettable animals. You are moving the goalposts. All it means is animals raised at a farm that do not have the caution of wild animals.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Many regions are not suitable for cropping and carry so few livestock per hectare that it just isn't viable. But game is often a good fit here. I am talking about privately owned or rented land here, not government game concessions or reserves. So one creates a game farm. The owner can either harvest and sell the meat himself, or add value by having it hunted. I am told that without the hunting revenue the straight meat offtake isn't viable either.
In short if the South African game farms/ranches do not get paying hunters they will disappear altogether as the fences would soon deteriorate, the rural goats and cattle would move in and the squatters too. It is very difficult to evict them, so we would say goodbye to that hunting resource. The trick is to somehow get the local population benefiting from the hunting on the farms so they leave them alone. It is probably happening as we speak anyway, the South African game farmers know their job.

 

[Rickmt]

My take is that that we hunters should not criticize each other’s choice of hunting locations, methods of hunting , or any other aspect of our sport. If we respect the law and the game we hunt we should support one another in our pursuits.
I will be hunting with my son in SA in September for Buffalo on 40,000 acres . I realize that it will not be hunting with CMS in Zimbabwe but I will wager the 1000 plus head of Buffalo will hardly be tame.
We hunters need to stick together or we and hunting altogether will be extinct.

 

[TKessel]

My take is that that we hunters should not criticize each other’s choice of hunting locations, methods of hunting , or any other aspect of our sport. If we respect the law and the game we hunt we should support one another in our pursuits.
I will be hunting with my son in SA in September for Buffalo on 40,000 acres . I realize that it will not be hunting with CMS in Zimbabwe but I will wager the 1000 plus head of Buffalo will hardly be tame.
We hunters need to stick together or we and hunting altogether will be extinct.

My exact thoughts!!!

 

[Ragman]

I’ve hunted cattle country in Namibia around Omaruru and the Eastern Cape in RSA. To me it was like hunting cattle/farm country here in North America. I loved it. Why some people criticize one but not the other baffles me. I understand hunting in wild Africa would be different than in more settled areas just like hunting the wilderness in North America differs from the settled areas. But if you hunt deer, elk or whatever in ranch country here at home, you shouldn’t poo-poo it in Africa.

 

[revturbo9967]

I’ve hunted cattle country in Namibia around Omaruru and the Eastern Cape in RSA. To me it was like hunting cattle/farm country here in North America. I loved it. Why some people criticize one but not the other baffles me. I understand hunting in wild Africa would be different than in more settled areas just like hunting the wilderness in North America differs from the settled areas. But if you hunt deer, elk or whatever in ranch country here at home, you shouldn’t poo-poo it in Africa.

I think the big difference is at some point in time certain or all breeds of animals on the SA ranches were placed there by man. Much of these places, even the large ones need to introduce game in order to keep up with demand. That is not happening here in North America unless you're at a very similar fenced ranch.

I just had a conversation the other day with a customer whos an avid hunter. I mentioned I was going to Africa next year and his exact words were " Oh you're going on one of those guaranteed hunts". I replied I was going to ZIm and he said OH ok. Well right or wrong his perception of Africa is very similar to others over here due to how certain country's choose to manage their game and hunt it.

 

[Hunt anything]

I think the big difference is at some point in time certain or all breeds of animals on the SA ranches were placed there by man. Much of these places, even the large ones need to introduce game in order to keep up with demand. That is not happening here in North America unless you're at a very similar fenced ranch.

I just had a conversation the other day with a customer whos an avid hunter. I mentioned I was going to Africa next year and his exact words were " Oh you're going on one of those guaranteed hunts". I replied I was going to ZIm and he said OH ok. Well right or wrong his perception of Africa is very similar to others over here due to how certain country's choose to manage their game and hunt it.

You can say the same for whitetail deer in many areas in the country so my 2 cents says that is mute point.

 

[revturbo9967]

You can say the same for whitetail deer in many areas in the country so my 2 cents says that is mute point.

Other then game ranches I have not seen states introducing large quantities of deer every hunting season to wild areas to keep numbers up. Only in a select few instances when trying to repopulate an area due to disease.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Like I tell folks here about shutting out nonresident hunters from the west, “if the club’s door is closed to the masses do you think the masses will care when someone wants to close the club?”

Honestly between the dwindling opportunities and point creep is why I am now focusing my finances and efforts elsewhere. I am going to try to burn between 8 and 15 years worth of points so I can have the experience but after that I plan to hunt Africa or Europe every year. I love hunting the west (will probably bird or turkey hunt it), but I can get all the meat I need bow hunting in the east, so just going on an expensive camping trip or shooting immature animals just doesn't appeal to me. A lot of the good areas are slowing becoming once in a lifetime for non residents and great areas are completely unachievable unless you get super lucky. Africa is a blessing, that if you can come up with the funds you can have a life changing experience. I know that is a little bit easier said than done but it comes down to how bad you want it.

 

[Vintageguy]

And for perspective 640² acres equals a square mile...

I had a neighbor say, “oh, the place you hunted was game fenced?”. I told him, sure was and if you started walking from our homes to town down the road we live on to the two lane highway, follow it to town, then walk back on another road and come in from the other direction, a big rectangle basically, you would still have another 4.2 square miles of hilly and mountainous thorn brush covered terrain left over to do. He stood there mentally taking in the area I just threw an imaginary fence around and then said, “that sure changes the image”.

 

[Hunt anything]

Other then game ranches I have not seen states introducing large quantities of deer every hunting season to wild areas to keep numbers up. Only in a select few instances when trying to repopulate an area due to disease.

You are correct that states don’t stock every year but the state of Alabama did extensive stocking of deer from several states in the sixties and we owe our tremendous deer hunting to that effort. Like many states it was big news to even see a deer track much less the actual deer.

 

[WAB]

My take is that that we hunters should not criticize each other’s choice of hunting locations, methods of hunting , or any other aspect of our sport. If we respect the law and the game we hunt we should support one another in our pursuits.
I will be hunting with my son in SA in September for Buffalo on 40,000 acres . I realize that it will not be hunting with CMS in Zimbabwe but I will wager the 1000 plus head of Buffalo will hardly be tame.
We hunters need to stick together or we and hunting altogether will be extinct.

Agreed, but likewise I don’t think you should take offense if someone, like me, decides that that is not appealing and prefers to hunt large wild areas in Botswana, Zim, Zambia or elsewhere. I have done both, well Klaserie in RSA, and I can assure you that they are very different experiences. My strong preference is for the wilderness, but I have no issues with those who prefer RSA. The only real issue I have is when I see someone claim that their RSA buffalo hunt was no different than a trip into say the Upper Luangwa. To claim that is to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have not done both.

 

[outwestidaho]

Everyone that I know that have been to Africa that wont return, state that the travel isn't worth it or
they are bow hunters that sat on water holes for ten days.

 

[uplander01]

I would only add that I have hunted Alaska, Canada, many western US states for all the different species, the hunts are shorter, and are getting really expensive now. Some guys are charging 30k for a moose hunt, 30k for brown bear, 10-12k for an elk hunt....crazy. I know guys that try the do it yourself thing and never pull the trigger or loose the bowstring year after year, (which I did when I was younger).... and never had much luck and worked really hard. There is some satisfaction in the hard effort. But to me now, (age 53) I would rather save up every couple 2-3 years and pay for a trip to the dark continent and walk around in shorts 8-10 miles a day, carrying a big bore rifle, in the warm weather being treated like a king, and eating like a king the whole time, all while whacking big game. My wife and I just returned from Zim,....could not have been a more perfect trip....now she's hooked and can't wait to go back. She just loves the culture experience, wildlife viewing and picture taking (fine by me). I'm guessing if you posed the bad experience question to all who have hunted in Alaska and don't want to go back the number would be way higher than those that have had a bad experience in Africa (barring the airlines ruining your day of course, and the bribery at the airports LOL). Been on 3 safaris so far, maybe I've just been lucky, but the professionalism of the hunting industry in Africa is amazing. My wife was astounded at how everything gets divided up with locals and used or sold into an industry that can make use of the hides, meat, everything. The only advice I would give anyone about hunting anywhere at this point is to be thorough, ask a lot of questions and talk to a lot of people about it. Africa, Western US or Alaska hunting are all very different. If you are into physically strenuous hunting or real hunting per say (on foot or horseback a lot) I think its a unanimous opinion that North America wilderness big game is overall way more difficult. Both Phillip Percival and Samuel Baker both acknowledged in their writings the difficulty in the hunting of North America and both regarded their trophies attained in these areas with the highest regard. Sadly there are a lot of outfits that will provide "shoot from the truck" hunts nowadays on both continents, and to me that is just sad, gotta get out in it man. I have nothing against ranch hunts in SA or Namib, but for me, I love the unfenced African wilderness, in the countries that have it, more than any other place on earth, and I plan to try and see as much of it and as many times as I can before I'm 6' under.