Africa is just not for me

[Backyardsniper]

If one has guided, it probably helps move along that team building exercise little quicker. Waaaay back in college I guided every day of the duck season for the four years I was in school. I'll be the first to agree shooting teal is not stalking a cape buffalo. But the human interactions between guide and "sport" as we use to say in those days, are essentially the same. He is wondering if he is going to have a good hunt, if he is going to embarrass himself shooting, etc., etc. I am mainly wondering whether he can handle his shotgun competently and safely. The rest has a way of taking care of itself.

I was just looking through my my photo journals, and if my count is correct, in eight hunts in Africa, I have had the services of 12 different PHs at one time or another. I enjoyed them all. Several have remained great friends. Most I met for the first time when I rolled into camp. Were I to tally up all the PH's and guides from the Americas and Europe, it would quite a few. There has not yet been a jerk among them (I can't say that about every client with whom I shared a camp).

Most of these guys have post graduate practical degrees in human psychology. They want you to have a grand experience, and they are required to make sure you do it safely. None of them in my experience want to shoot your animal. Any in my experience will appreciate discussing that or any other concern with you.

After talking to the people I was booking with I learned that a lot of times the whole, PH shooting right after the client is actually at the request of the client. They call it "doubling" apparently. If a guy is maybe not 100% confident in his shooting, or maybe I suppose just as an added safety net to not have to pay for a wounded animal that got away then they will request that the PH back them up once the shooting starts. I can also see where a PH might do this if a client has already demonstrated some extremely poor shooting skills and he is trying to avoid a nasty tracking job on an animal that is likely to have a bad demeanor once he has been poked full of non fatal holes, which I suppose I wouldn't blame him for doing if the client has demonstrated that he is more likely than not to really do some poor shooting.

 

[Jason Miller]

that’s an amazing gig. I’m not the jealous type at all, but i sincerely admire your plan to make a home there, that sounds fantastic. Just earlier today I was looking at my pics from Kenya and missing it very much.

You are welcome to visit anytime my friend, come, put you feet up and unwind after your hunt wherever that my be. I hope for my home to be like Karen Blixons home, a place for travelers from all over the come, relax, and enjoy just being there.

 

[fourfive8]

Along some of the lines of thinking about those who won't go or won't go back because they don't want to be guided.... Fair enough. I get it. I have hunted big game on my own since I was 13. Being "guided" can be like being treated like a kid and told what to do. I understand that all too well. But hunting in most Africa situations is a different deal. Just too many liabilities for a PH/outfitter who has to serve and take care and sometimes babysit a continuous supply of unknown hunting clientele. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, there is usually a legal and/or insurance/bond requirement for guided hunts with some language about close supervision or guidance or safety included.

One of the funniest PH stories I ever heard tell was about a bowhunting client who insisted on still hunting alone, mano a mano for PG. Of course the PH added that he did follow and track the hunter at a reasonable distance but within hearing range. The PH said the hunter was a mouthy, know it all from the left coast of the US- Calif IIRC. The hunter strikes out on his hunt looking for the reedbuck, bushbuck and impala in the area. He was dressed up with camo face paint and in a full ghuillie suit... a stealthy ghost of the bush, if ever there was one!! The PH tracks and follows from some distance behind, allowing the hunter to do his thing. After an hour or so the PH hears, "Heeeeelp, Heeeeelp!" He rushes to the distress calls thinking, "oh crap!" He finds the hunter completely and inextricably entangled in the middle of a big patch of wait-a-bit, nearly suspended off the ground.... kind of like a fly caught in a spider web. He had to cut the hunter free

As to the NA white-tailed deer being so much more wired or alert or whatever than African antelope??? Hmmm. Whitetails, some anyway, can be pretty sneaky that's for sure. But, the wildest, most difficult to close with animals I've ever been around are the mid-sized African antelope and, of all things, certain groups of Zebra. I think it may have something to do with at least four different predators trying to kill and eat them- leopards, lions, hunters and bush meat poachers.

I can't imagine hunting Africa nor most anywhere else in one of these.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I grew up hunting on my own. Never had a guided hunt until I was in my late 30's. I have never felt totally at ease with a guide 'leading' me to game . The guide i had in Canada on a hunt was always worried that I would get lost.."do you know where the horses are?" - sure I would say, "over that ridge in that direction!". Shit. I felt like a shooter, not a hunter.
But the only way to effectively hunt African game is with a PH. I'm OK with that, but I want my PH and I to be on the same page. I do not want the pressure of time and a shopping list of species to dictate the progress of the hunt. I booked a 21 day hunt in a wilderness area of TZ. Other than a buff or two I have no shopping list. I want the HUNT, not the trophies.

 

[Tanks]

So many people form their ideas from virtual/ vicarious "knowledge" and it just fuels preconceived notions. This kind of thinking probably stops a lot of people from taking the leap. If you are one of the unique few who are willing to challenge their comfortable assumptions you could go and find out for yourself. I am sure there are a few PHs on this website that would accept your inquiry.

I have read the RSA hunt reports and seen the videos of people that have posted on this site that hunted with the outfitters from this website. Are you saying their experiences were somehow misleading?
There is nothing wrong for others to hunt PG at a game ranch, it just is not for me. Now, if in the future I wish to have bunch of zebra skin covered furniture at a cabin I might do a zebra cull "hunt". Though I would call it shooting, not hunting.
As far as not taking the leap based on virtual/ vicarious "knowledge", I have taken the leap and writing this from my umpteenth hunting trip outside of RSA. Well, actual hunting trip starts in a couple of days. Sitting and waiting for a ride to Victoria Falls airport at the moment.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I can understand that. I will never hunt south Africa. Nothing wrong with it, but its just not.my thing.

Likewise, I have no desire to hunt any other African country besides RSA. First of all the expense is a lot more for less hunting, second, not going to pay the extortion rates those governments charge for the "privilege" of giving them what they want more than anything, the U.S. dollar. At least in RSA, the money is helping to conserve animals instead of going in to the pockets of corrupt politicians.

 

[revturbo9967]

At least in RSA, the money is helping to conserve animals instead of going in to the pockets of corrupt politicians.

So what is keeping the animals alive in these countries other then RSA?

 

[Hogpatrol]

So what is keeping the animals alive in these countries other then RSA?

The cost of killing them, i.e, double, triple, or even more multiples of hunting them versus RSA.


Here's an old thread that may shed some light on one country.

Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it?

Forgive my ignorance as I will only be on my first safari (Botswana) this September and then RSA in June 2020 for my second (17 days). Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it? I’ve tried to find out why, and can only assume bc it is still free range? I know most stuff...

www.africahunting.com

 

[WAB]

The cost of killing them, i.e, double, triple, or even more multiples of hunting them versus RSA.


Here's an old thread that may shed some light on one country.

Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it?

Forgive my ignorance as I will only be on my first safari (Botswana) this September and then RSA in June 2020 for my second (17 days). Why is Tanzania so expensive to hunt and is it worth it? I’ve tried to find out why, and can only assume bc it is still free range? I know most stuff...

www.africahunting.com

What’s keeping animals alive in countries like Zim is the value placed on them by hunting. Without that the hunting concessions and conservancies would not exist, the land would be covered with subsistence farms, and the game would be poached out of existence.

 

[Pheroze]

The problem RSA has is that it has been extremely successful with its conservation model. It has also has extensive infrastructure. As a free and diverse country there are many levels of hunting practices in RSA. But one should not confuse the poverty and lack of effective government they are experiencing in some other countries with that country having maintained more natural environments. Just like another well known free country, you get what you pay for. As a famous person once said "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

 

[Tanks]

…At least in RSA, the money is helping to conserve animals instead of going in to the pockets of corrupt politicians.

I would not call farmers keeping livestock conservation per se. The money goes to the farmers and through them to their employees etc.. Nothing wrong with that, however calling livestock operations conservation is a stretch.

You should read the year end report of an outfit like CMS in Zimbabwe to appreciate what real conservation really looks like.

Also, the reason hunting is more expensive in other countries than RSA is not just government corruption but limited quota (due to conservation). Unlike RSA they can’t just order up a lion for you to shoot in a span of a few days. They actually have to hunt for it .Sometimes unsuccessfully.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I would not call farmers keeping livestock conservation per se. The money goes to the farmers and through them to their employees etc.. Nothing wrong with that, however calling livestock operations conservation is a stretch.

You should read the year end report of an outfit like CMS in Zimbabwe to appreciate what real conservation really looks like.

Also, the reason hunting is more expensive in other countries than RSA is not just government corruption but limited quota (due to conservation). Unlike RSA they can’t just order up a lion for you to shoot in a span of a few days. They actually have to hunt for it .Sometimes unsuccessfully.

That's funny. Eight trips to RSA, I don't remember being able to walk up and pet any of that "livestock". IIRC, I couldn't get to within 200 or meters close to them, unlike those buffalo hunts in Zim.

 

[Tanks]

You could pet Buffalo at Zim?
Also, if your PH couldn’t get you closer than 200 yards to game maybe you need a PH that got his license from a bit more rigorous program than those offered at RSA.

 

[Pheroze]

You could pet Buffalo at Zim?
Also, if your PH couldn’t get you closer than 200 yards to game maybe you need a PH that got his license from a bit more rigorous program than those offered at RSA.

You are having entirely too much fun. Go hunt something already.

 

[Backyardsniper]

You could pet Buffalo at Zim?
Also, if your PH couldn’t get you closer than 200 yards to game maybe you need a PH that got his license from a bit more rigorous program than those offered at RSA.

You can pet one at a local place here if you have had enough beer. We have a fenced in area here that has elk and bison. You pay and you can drive in and there is a road that circumnavigates the enclosure. One days several years ago the wife and I went through. I had drank WAY more beer than necessary and while we were sitting waiting on a herd of bison to get out of the road it dawned on me that it would be a good idea to pet one. Much to my wife's protests I exited the vehicle and answered her final "WHAT THE F**K are you doing" with "either way this ends its gonna be a good story" and I then proceeded to stroll up to this bison and gently place my hand betwixt his horns and rub him on the head, I then VERY slowly backed away and got back in the car. This is a fine example of dumbassery of course and I should definitely not have done it. However, I have petted a bison and no one can take that away from me

 

[JimP]

You can pet one at a local place here if you have had enough beer. We have a fenced in area here that has elk and bison. You pay and you can drive in and there is a road that circumnavigates the enclosure. One days several years ago the wife and I went through. I had drank WAY more beer than necessary and while we were sitting waiting on a herd of bison to get out of the road it dawned on me that it would be a good idea to pet one. Much to my wife's protests I exited the vehicle and answered her final "WHAT THE F**K are you doing" with "either way this ends its gonna be a good story" and I then proceeded to stroll up to this bison and gently place my hand betwixt his horns and rub him on the head, I then VERY slowly backed away and got back in the car. This is a fine example of dumbassery of course and I should definitely not have done it. However, I have petted a bison and no one can take that away from me

Sounds about like one of my hunting partners on my first safari when we did the diving with sharks in Mossel Bay. He reached out of the shark cage and petted a great white shark. He does still have all of his appendages also.

But another story, years ago I was archery hunting elk and was sitting next to a elk trail. A calf came up and pass me and a few moments later here came the cow. When she got next to me I just reached out and touched her on her hind quarters. She went straight up into the air and came down with all 4 hooves digging for traction as she was headed up the hill. I marked that as something not to ever do again.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Likewise, I have no desire to hunt any other African country besides RSA. First of all the expense is a lot more for less hunting, second, not going to pay the extortion rates those governments charge for the "privilege" of giving them what they want more than anything, the U.S. dollar. At least in RSA, the money is helping to conserve animals instead of going in to the pockets of corrupt politicians.

@Hogpatrol
Namibia is a great place to hunt and also the money goes back into conservation. At least it did where I hunted. I didn't find the rates to be extortion. Actually I found it to be cheaper than south Africa after doing a lot of research. I personally found Namibia gave a lot of bang for my dollar. Etosha was amazing, okahangah markets were an eye opener, the culture was amazing along with the amount of poverty. Windhoek was a beautiful and safe city as well. My family and I found Namibia an amazing place with amazing and beautiful people and cultures.
Bob

 

[Pheroze]

You can pet one at a local place here if you have had enough beer. We have a fenced in area here that has elk and bison. You pay and you can drive in and there is a road that circumnavigates the enclosure. One days several years ago the wife and I went through. I had drank WAY more beer than necessary and while we were sitting waiting on a herd of bison to get out of the road it dawned on me that it would be a good idea to pet one. Much to my wife's protests I exited the vehicle and answered her final "WHAT THE F**K are you doing" with "either way this ends its gonna be a good story" and I then proceeded to stroll up to this bison and gently place my hand betwixt his horns and rub him on the head, I then VERY slowly backed away and got back in the car. This is a fine example of dumbassery of course and I should definitely not have done it. However, I have petted a bison and no one can take that away from me

THAT should come with a "don't try this at home. The following was performed by a trained professional under inebriated conditions" disclaimer!

 

[Backyardsniper]

THAT should come with a "don't try this at home. The following was performed by a trained profesional under inebriated conditions" disclaimer!

Yeah definitely falls in the bad idea category. Ha ha. I was lucky I didn't get hurt. I think the buffalo was simply confused by the situation long enuff for me to effect my get away. Given another 30 seconds or so he may have decided to issue an ass whipping!

 

[Ryan]

Along some of the lines of thinking about those who won't go or won't go back because they don't want to be guided.... Fair enough. I get it. I have hunted big game on my own since I was 13. Being "guided" can be like being treated like a kid and told what to do. I understand that all too well. But hunting in most Africa situations is a different deal. Just too many liabilities for a PH/outfitter who has to serve and take care and sometimes babysit a continuous supply of unknown hunting clientele. Plus, unless I'm mistaken, there is usually a legal and/or insurance/bond requirement for guided hunts with some language about close supervision or guidance or safety included.

One of the funniest PH stories I ever heard tell was about a bowhunting client who insisted on still hunting alone, mano a mano for PG. Of course the PH added that he did follow and track the hunter at a reasonable distance but within hearing range. The PH said the hunter was a mouthy, know it all from the left coast of the US- Calif IIRC. The hunter strikes out on his hunt looking for the reedbuck, bushbuck and impala in the area. He was dressed up with camo face paint and in a full ghuillie suit... a stealthy ghost of the bush, if ever there was one!! The PH tracks and follows from some distance behind, allowing the hunter to do his thing. After an hour or so the PH hears, "Heeeeelp, Heeeeelp!" He rushes to the distress calls thinking, "oh crap!" He finds the hunter completely and inextricably entangled in the middle of a big patch of wait-a-bit, nearly suspended off the ground.... kind of like a fly caught in a spider web. He had to cut the hunter free

As to the NA white-tailed deer being so much more wired or alert or whatever than African antelope??? Hmmm. Whitetails, some anyway, can be pretty sneaky that's for sure. But, the wildest, most difficult to close with animals I've ever been around are the mid-sized African antelope and, of all things, certain groups of Zebra. I think it may have something to do with at least four different predators trying to kill and eat them- leopards, lions, hunters and bush meat poachers.

I can't imagine hunting Africa nor most anywhere else in one of these. View attachment 480093

While not quite as bushy as this one my last two PHs use them as did I for some stalking with a bow.