Africa Hunting and a Marlin .444!

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
People ar looking more at sectional density than the actual projectiles.
The SD of all projectiles changes as soon as it starts to expand so a 9.3 with a 286gn soft point that expands to 12mm and retains 250 grains is going to have a craps SD.
a 444 tat expands to 13 mm and retains 250 of its 280 grains is in the same boat.
To me to much importance is placed on SD and not enough on bullet construction.
It's the same as BC I'm not shooting at 600 yards so a 0.7 bc is no use to me hunting at 300 yards, a 0.3 is good enough.
People read to much into SDs and BCs for every day hunting. Yes they are a guide but not the be all and end all.
Bob

I fully agree with you there Bob!

What else should be accounted for is the frontal area of a bullet, plus the nose shape of the bullet.

A .432 bullet in itself displaces a lot of tissue and bodily fluids.

Also, if that same bullet has a round nose flat tip, that flat tip will expand slightly, but also help with displacing tissue and create more hydrostatic shock as it goes through blood, muscle, internal organs, and bone.

Has anyone on here heard and witnessed what one of those round nose flat tip bullets can do?

Imagine that you just pulled the trigger, and during recoil you hear this amazingly huge SLAP, along with the WHUMP of a typical spitzer bullet.
Then when you gut the animal, all that comes out where the lungs and heart is supposed to be is hamburger meat and pulp.

There are things that happen beyond comprehension as to what a bullet does, and us trying to come up with numbers on how effective one is only the base of what we know, not all.


Hawk

 

[CoElkHunter]

Youth?

Ha! Ha! I was thinking “bush” league as in African bush? I like “youth” better though.

 

[matthew anderson]

I thought this was funny. Bored and cruising around on the internet I found this and immediately thought of this thread. This (I'm sure) well vetted and healthily priced cartridge board, should lay all of your doubts to rest. J/k

African Game

Check out the deal on African Game at African Sporting Creations

www.africansportingcreations.com

 

[Poc4u]

I have been wondering lately if a Marlin 444 .444 Marlin would do well in Africa, especially on the dangerous beasties.
I can shoot a Bear Tooth 300 gr Hard Cast Gas Check at 2100 fps, and 2938 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
I can also shoot the 280 - 290 gr Hard Cast Gas Check bullets 2400 - 2300 fps. Getting 3434 ft-lbs to 3407 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.
The cartridge itself is a good 250 yd max cartridge.
I would like opinions of those that have already hunted in Africa, and maybe have used the .444 Marlin.
From what I understand, the cartridge is equal, if not better than the old .405 Winchester.
Thank you all in advance for your experience and expertise on this subject.


Hawk

I’ve hunted Africa eight times, I have all the big five (couldn’t bring in my lion though)
I think a 444 Marlin with the right bullet is more than adequate for anything other than elephant, Cape buffalo bull, (for whatever reason they’re tougher than the females) and hippo on the ground. I’ve taken two cows Cape Buffalo (fifty yards) Eland and Zebra with my sweet Redolfi Brothers 444 side x side double with 300 grain Ranchdogs at 2150 fps
I’m going for lion (again) next year in South Africa and that’s what I’m going to use.

 

[Muskox]

My father was stationed in Alaska in the 1960's. He was actually in Anchorage during the Good Friday Earthquake. His staff sergeant had taken a polar bear with a 444 Marlin, and had the skin hanging on the wall in his barracks room.

I personally think that it is a wonderful cartridge. With good bullets at close range I'd use it on anything that walks. But I'd prefer a 416 Remington for elephant.

 

[Muskox]

I thought this was funny. Bored and cruising around on the internet I found this and immediately thought of this thread. This (I'm sure) well vetted and healthily priced cartridge board, should lay all of your doubts to rest. J/k

African Game

Check out the deal on African Game at African Sporting Creations

www.africansportingcreations.com

You can also buy a shirtless photo of John Sharp from the same place. Not that I would want that.

 

[TOBY458]

I thought this was funny. Bored and cruising around on the internet I found this and immediately thought of this thread. This (I'm sure) well vetted and healthily priced cartridge board, should lay all of your doubts to rest. J/k

African Game

Check out the deal on African Game at African Sporting Creations

www.africansportingcreations.com

Whenever I think of African rifle caliber folklore, the 444 immediately comes to mind!

 

[Poc4u]

Whenever I think of African rifle caliber folklore, the 444 immediately comes to mind!

That’s not the point of the conversation, the conversation was about taking a 444 to Africa and hunt some of the popular game animals, people hunt dangerous game animals with bows and black powder rifles these days and yet those are not the weapons that come to mind when thinking of Africa

 

[cwpayton]

Here’s an article that might be of some use.

Charging grizzly threatens hunter - Vernon Morning Star

He was looking for deer for sport. But a Lumby hunter ended up shooting a grizzly bear to save his life.

www.vernonmorningstar.com

Hawk

wont load that article

 

[cwpayton]

Here is my beauty!
She has a 22 inch barrel, and the 1 in 20 inch Ballard rifling, and can shoot up to 400 gr + bullets without sweating!View attachment 404432
View attachment 404433


Hawk

great rifle except for that safety. I prefer my .308 savage ,but love all levers, never saw clint , or John Wayne ,or the rifleman carrying a bolt action. lol. but did see Teddy with one, 1895- o6 if I remember correctly.shot placement is my theme.

 

[cwpayton]

Former hunting partner had his 270 fail to go bang on a pretty nice bull elk in -22° temps at 10k' just north of Gunnison, CO one year. Firing pin locked up in coagulated gun oil; and not that much of it. But at -22°, it doesn't take much.
Considering the number of rounds fired on a typical big game hunt, there is zero wear caused by making sure there is no oil, grease, or any other lube left in the bolt/action of a rifle. In hot, dusty conditions, or cold. I make sure mine are devoid of any sort of lube when hunting. Clean, but lube free.

AT -22 its hard to have your piss hit the ground in liquid form. amazing.

 

[JimP]

great rifle except for that safety. I prefer my .308 savage ,but love all levers, never saw clint , or John Wayne ,or the rifleman carrying a bolt action. lol. but did see Teddy with one, 1895- o6 if I remember correctly.shot placement is my theme.

John Wayne used a pre 64 model 70 presumed to be chambered in 458 Win mag in Hatari

 

[cwpayton]

John Wayne used a pre 64 model 70 presumed to be chambered in 458 Win mag in Hatari

correct, I was thinking westerns

 

[TOBY458]

That’s not the point of the conversation, the conversation was about taking a 444 to Africa and hunt some of the popular game animals, people hunt dangerous game animals with bows and black powder rifles these days and yet those are not the weapons that come to mind when thinking of Africa

It was a joke aimed at that cartridge board of African calibers. I’m sure the 444 will work just fine for your intended purposes. It’s just odd to see it placed on a board like that.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It was a joke aimed at that cartridge board of African calibers. I’m sure the 444 will work just fine for your intended purposes. It’s just odd to see it placed on a board like that.

@TOBY458
I was initially going to take my 444 built on a No4 Mk2 SMLE action to Namibia. It could be loaded a lot better than the standard 444, eg 280gn Woodleigh RNSP at 2,400 fps but sold it to fund my Whelen build. I think it would have acquitted itself well on PG up to eland at sensible ranges.
With a 300gn Barnes buster at an estimated 2,300fps I personally think it would handle buffalo under the RIGHT circumstances.
Bob