Advice for my rifle

[TucsonFX4]

All the above are the exact course of action I would suggest.
1. Scope - check/torque bases and rings. Maybe change scopes to eliminate that as a possibility
2. Check to see if barrel is free floated
3. Clean copper out of barrel
4. If it has a muzzle brake - remove it and shoot without

How many consecutive shots are you firing - is the barrel extremely hot?
Are you using bags on a bench?

I will try swapping scopes, but I did that a couple years back (this has been a slow process) and the results weren’t any better in the beginning.
The barrel is free floated
The barrel was cleaned very thoroughly, to include copper
No muzzle brake.
I have been shooting at a rate of about 1 shot per minute for 3-5 shot groups, then 5-10 minutes between each different group. I will confess that I previously shot at a faster rate when I was less knowledgeable about the POI changes from a cold vs hot barrel. I wouldn’t say I shot rapid fire or got the barrel super hot, but 3-5 shots in a minute seems likely. There were still have been a few minutes between groups.
I’m shooting off a lead sled on a portable table or concrete bench. I know the portable table isn’t as stable, but with that same setup I’m still shooting sub moa with two different Ruger Americans and factory ammo.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Weatherby uses the barrel contact on their thin profile barrels. It’s used to “tune” the barrel harmonics.

How old is the rifle? I’m wondering if the barrel has been shot out.

I bought it new, I don’t remember exactly how long ago, but I would guess about 10 years ago. I would also guess it has less than 300 rounds through it. Now I’m more particular about shooting very slowly at the range to keep the barrel from heating up, but could the barrel be damaged from my previous shooting style? I wouldn’t think so, as I’m confident a very very small percentage of shooters fire as slowly as I do now. I would think my previous range session firing rates were “common” rates of fire, but maybe I’m mistaken.

 

[Shootist43]

TucsonFX4, one other possibility you might check is the chamber dimensions. I've had new rifles with a short chamber. How does the bolt close? Is it easy or hard. It could just be "copper fouled" I use Bore Tech CU + 2 on all of my rifles from time to time. There are only two copper removers that really work well. I like the Bore Tech because it turns the patch a bluish green if any copper is present. One other thing, please don't sell it to anyone. Passing along your headache to an unsuspecting buyer is a No-No in my book.

 

[fourfive8]

I think you’ve covered most everything. Put a different scope on, make sure bases and rings secure. Shoot a group and compare. If no change then something is going in with bore or barrel. You can re-crown and have someone with a bore scope look at the throat. The barrel may even be crooked or bent. At some point it may be worth it to cut losses and find a smith who has Win 70 experience and re-barrel. Or sell it with disclosure of accuracy/barrel issues.

 

[Shooter375]

Probably should just sell it and buy a Bergara or CVA/Cascade with the money. They have great barrels. If you like it and want to keep it then take it to a gunsmith for rebarreling/accurizing. $1000-$1500 later and you will have an accurate rifle. In the words of Townsend Whelen, "Only accurate rifles are interesting."

 

[Flewis]

I bought it new, I don’t remember exactly how long ago, but I would guess about 10 years ago. I would also guess it has less than 300 rounds through it. Now I’m more particular about shooting very slowly at the range to keep the barrel from heating up, but could the barrel be damaged from my previous shooting style? I wouldn’t think so, as I’m confident a very very small percentage of shooters fire as slowly as I do now. I would think my previous range session firing rates were “common” rates of fire, but maybe I’m mistaken.

Find a smith with a bore scope, most will have one, but wear would just make the groups just get bigger slowly. Of course that not 100 percent.

 

[mark-hunter]

Everything was already suggested, and nothing much to add from my side:

I may only add following - if you have been cleaning too thoroughly, and/or too recently, maybe the barrel will need additional fouling shots.
It can be 10 shots or 50. Depending of barrel "personality".
After which the group should stabilize to normal size, around 1 moa, or a bit more.
Note: for older production rifles, 40 years ago, 2 moa was considered good. (Given the circumstances, I would settle for that)

If the barrel is properly fouled, and all else is checked, then the problem is intrinsic and hard to determine, if you followed all previous suggestions.

In that case, and if all else is OK, but rifle remains inaccurate (scope tested, screws tightened, free floated the bbl, etc) then barrel change is to be considered.

I know for at least two cases, when brand new factory rifle had damaged rifling, and needed barrel to be changed. It can happen.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Unfortunately, some factory rifles are duds. Sounds like you've spent enough time and money on it. From this chair, it's a toad, If you really like the way it fits you, like the cartridge, and suits your missions, I'd rebarrel it. Since it's a long action magnum, there are plenty of options. Good Luck!

 

[ActionBob]

Don't do anything more until you simply check that the action screws are properly torqued. Don't overdo it either. You can screw up a gun, especially a wood stocked one. By over tightening also. Even if you just check with a screwdriver that they are at least snug.

You listed everything you did, I may have missed it but I did not see where you checked the screws. With those loose, it's akin to having your house not on a solid foundation. Download an owners manual, should be free.

A 10 year old Winchester is going to have that heavy trigger i mentioned earlier. Tough to shoot accurately with a heavy trigger. I believe you can take that screw out completely and be 2.5 to 3 pounds.

Do the simplest thing first. And the free ones!

Also look for damage at the end of the barrel. Simple and free to do.

My first PH in Africa, first thing he did before even letting me shoot a target was to check the action screws. He was good and taught me a valuable lesson.

 

[Scott CWO]

I will try swapping scopes, but I did that a couple years back (this has been a slow process) and the results weren’t any better in the beginning.
The barrel is free floated
The barrel was cleaned very thoroughly, to include copper
No muzzle brake.
I have been shooting at a rate of about 1 shot per minute for 3-5 shot groups, then 5-10 minutes between each different group. I will confess that I previously shot at a faster rate when I was less knowledgeable about the POI changes from a cold vs hot barrel. I wouldn’t say I shot rapid fire or got the barrel super hot, but 3-5 shots in a minute seems likely. There were still have been a few minutes between groups.
I’m shooting off a lead sled on a portable table or concrete bench. I know the portable table isn’t as stable, but with that same setup I’m still shooting sub moa with two different Ruger Americans and factory ammo.

A rifle can shoot different from a lead sled. Are you getting same bad groups without sled? I was told by my buddy who ran the SF sniper school to never use a lead sled to achieve final groupings. Trigger may also be too heavy. How many pounds?

 

[Nevada Mike]

... try a bit of up pressure at the forend tip. For that simply cut up a business card for shims and try first one shim to put pressure on the barrel. I have seen that greatly improve accuracy. If that doesn't help then its likely a barrel problem. If you try those things you can isolate the problem without spending money unnecessarily. Good luck.

This is good advice and it's what I would do. I have a M70 in 7mm RM. it's a tack driver. I would not give up on the rifle quite yet. And, if needed, rebarreling is cheaper than a new, unknown rifle.

 

[Rem700stw]

Before you scrap the rifle I would recommend the following:

1. Remove rings and bases. Clean any vestiges of oil off action where bases fit with alcohol, including threads in action. Repeat cleansing of contact surface of bases and screws.
2. Remount bases and rings torquing the screws to manufacturer's specs.
3. DEEP clean barrel.
4. Remove action from stock and inspect for any issues with inletting. Torque screws to specs.
5. Mount a DIFFERENT SCOPE of known performance.
6. Shoot fouling shot and allow barrel to cool completely.
7.Shoot group.

If grouping is improved try original scope again to determine if scope is faulty. I have had a similar occurrence with 2 rifles. On one the scope proved faulty (high dollar european glass) and the other my mounting job was at fault.

If no change is apparent time for gunsmith or pawn shop.

 

[cash_tx]

@TucsonFX4 , it sounds like you have covered most of the bases; however, I would follow ActionBob's advice in getting a proper inch/pound torque wrench and making sure that all the action, scope, and ring screws are set properly; as well as get a trigger pull gauge to measure how much force you are having to exert on the trigger to fire the rifle.

If your rifle is about 10 years old, then it is about the same age as my Model 70 Featherweight in 270; and was most likely made by FN/BACO (Browning Arms Company) in the Columbia, South Carolina plant sometime around 2012 (they made the Model 70 rifles at that FN plant from 2008-2013, before moving the production to Portugal). If your barrel is free floating, the action is bedded down into the stock properly, and everything is torqued down correctly; then the next step is to have a gunsmith use a bore scope to examine the rifling in the barrel. It's possible there could be damage from your previous range sessions (although I think pretty unlikely); but I have also seen a YouTube video where a guy was troubleshooting an inaccurate Model 70 in 257 Roberts (from that same era) where the rifling lands started at different points in the barrel because things had gotten off-kilter during the cold hammer forging process. If your rifle has that same issue, then it can be a very finicky shooter and will take a fair amount of work to figure out a load that it likes.

 

[TucsonFX4]

A rifle can shoot different from a lead sled. Are you getting same bad groups without sled? I was told by my buddy who ran the SF sniper school to never use a lead sled to achieve final groupings. Trigger may also be too heavy. How many pounds?

Groups are comparable off of bags

 

[TucsonFX4]

Don't do anything more until you simply check that the action screws are properly torqued. Don't overdo it either. You can screw up a gun, especially a wood stocked one. By over tightening also. Even if you just check with a screwdriver that they are at least snug.

You listed everything you did, I may have missed it but I did not see where you checked the screws. With those loose, it's akin to having your house not on a solid foundation. Download an owners manual, should be free.

A 10 year old Winchester is going to have that heavy trigger i mentioned earlier. Tough to shoot accurately with a heavy trigger. I believe you can take that screw out completely and be 2.5 to 3 pounds.

Do the simplest thing first. And the free ones!

Also look for damage at the end of the barrel. Simple and free to do.

My first PH in Africa, first thing he did before even letting me shoot a target was to check the action screws. He was good and taught me a valuable lesson.

I will go through these items in the coming days and check everything.

 

[GuttormG]

A proper cleaning, check and if needed recut muzzle crown, a proper epoxy beddingjob, freefloating the barrel.
If it still do not shot-a newbarrel or sell it for parts.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Ok, so I’m attempting to remove the stock, but I seem to be stuck. I removed both action screws, then the bottom metal and the magazine box, but I can’t get the stock to separate from the receiver. It wiggles slightly (primarily from the rear portion), but seems to be firmly held into place at about the point that the forward action screw would go. Any advice on how to proceed?

I’ve tried tapping with a hammer and solid plastic piece on exposed ledges within the receiver, while erring on the side of caution to prevent damage. I’ve taken a couple stocks and receivers apart on other rifles, so I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong or why it is stuck.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Disregard, just needed a little more elbow grease

 

[TucsonFX4]

My trigger adjustment screws have some sort of epoxy or glue over them. Is that indicative of this rifle not having an adjustable trigger, or am I supposed to remove the epoxy to then adjust the screws?

 

[Flewis]

My trigger adjustment screws have some sort of epoxy or glue over them. Is that indicative of this rifle not having an adjustable trigger, or am I supposed to remove the epoxy to then adjust the screws?

If the action was that tight you stock i letting might your problem. It may be putting pressure on the action or barrel shank. Look for signs of that.