9.3x62mm vs. .375 H&H Mag

[EfRed]

Theres always the .375 Ruger too! My guide gun is stainless, laminate, sports a 20" barrel and after some adjustments, feeds flawlessly and shoots like a dream. It weighs 8.5 lbs with a scope and I don't mind carrying it all day. Those limbsaver pads Ruger provides really dampen the recoil too. Just another thought for anyone in the "predicament" of figuring out which medium bore to buy.

Wonderful rifle - 375 performance in an -06 weight rifle.

 

[EfRed]

with due respect to Doktari, that's not how terminal ballistics work.

an 1800 lb cape buffalo has about 45000 times more mass than a 286 gr bullet; and more than 31000 times the mass of a 400 grain bullet.

In thinking about this, something tickled my brain from an Anatomy and Physiology class when I was in college.

The heart runs on electricity. The start of every heartbeat is an electrical impulse from a spot on the top of the heart called the sino-atrial node. If the SA node is destroyed, heart stops beating immediately. Heavy bleeding not even required. If heart stops beating, it doesn't really matter how much O2 is in the blood, because it isn't getting pumped along. Gas exchange (O2 for CO2) occurs in capillaries, and if the blood isn't moving, no more gas is going to get exchanged.

My suspicion about bang-flops on heart shots is the hunter got lucky and hit the SA node. On a human heart, the SA node is about 10-30mm long and 5-7 mm wide, probably much bigger on a cape buffalo, but still not likely measured in anything bigger than a couple centimeters, I expect.

Does the head rolling away from the guillotine see it's executioner? Does the body flop or twitch? With an SA shot, heart will stop, but there is residual blood in the brain/muscle and myoglobin in the muscles as well. Bang-flops are hard to explain.

 

[EfRed]

Hi Tanks, of course-even the .375 is marginal for Elefant. I just wanted to state that the 9,3x62 does not have enough steam and a solution is there for the 9.3 enthusiasts.
I shot my Buffaloes and Elefants either with a .500 NE Double or the . 458 Lott

I think about this and want to agree but then I remember Walter Bell and his .275 .... I guess elephants are shot at closer ranges in heavier cover with less shot choice today than then.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Good,day to you,Sir.

In addition to these 24 pages,I consulted Vihtavuori.

With a 300 A-Frame, there is still a safe 900 Joules (663 ftlbs) , 75 m/s (246 fps) difference in favor of 375 H&H and I want that edge. I practise 300 meters regularly with my medium bore / small bore hunting guns. Just to be prepared for that occasional required long shot.

I once cleaned up a gut shot moose @ 380 meters with 338 Lapua. 375 H&H should be good up to 250 m, depending on the bullet and accuracy,of course.

very good. Here in the states I have load data that gets 286grn A-Frames running slightly faster than 2500fps with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. We have powders that aren't readily availablle in Finland. But you'll never hear me put down a 375 H&H. Bottom line, it's what meets your requirements and works for you. That said, given the chance where legal, I'd not hesitate To pull the trigger on M'bogo with my 9.3. Neither the 9.3 or the 375 are a stopper for a charge. But I'd still take the shot. Been a pleasure discussing this with you.

 

[sgt_zim]

Does the head rolling away from the guillotine see it's executioner? Does the body flop or twitch? With an SA shot, heart will stop, but there is residual blood in the brain/muscle and myoglobin in the muscles as well. Bang-flops are hard to explain.

Good questions, to which we'll probably never have an answer.

Destruction of the SA node, or the segments of purkinje fibers nearest to it, makes the most sense to me for bang flop. Once the blood stops flowing, gas exchange ceases. Cellular death will start within several seconds. Tissues will try to excrete CO2, but if the RBCs are "full" of CO2, and no O2-rich ones are coming along behind it, it's over.

 

[petander]

Then there is the deceiving spine "bang-flop". I once dropped a big running bull moose, 45-70, I figured I had hit high because of the instant drop. A 70 yds shot.

There were two eager dogs around the moose when I got there and my finishing shot took a bit longer because of the dogs... All of a sudden the huge over 500 kg bull literally jumped up right in front of me. Only six feet or so from me.

Then followed the fastest cowboy movie -like hipshot I've ever taken. I cast bullets and practise a lot, I had practised different positions for fun but never really thought I'd need to shoot from hip. Oh well.

A gentleman in our club once sat on a "dead" moose for a pic, with his rifle hanging on the antlers. You know how that ended. Yes the moose took off with the rifle...

When you just miss the spine a little, hitting a small knife-like spine bone that points up, the animal gets sort of paralyzed for half a minute or so. Drops right there as hit by lightning. Then it runs. It can go for days until a horrible infection starts...

 

[EfRed]

Good questions, to which we'll probably never have an answer.

Destruction of the SA node, or the segments of purkinje fibers nearest to it, makes the most sense to me for bang flop. Once the blood stops flowing, gas exchange ceases. Cellular death will start within several seconds. Tissues will try to excrete CO2, but if the RBCs are "full" of CO2, and no O2-rich ones are coming along behind it, it's over.

Muscle cells have an internal source of oxygen that doesn't require blood flow or delivery. Don't think it lasts long, but it should be good for a twitch or two. I was mostly trying for a joke with the guillotine questopns, but they are interesting. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a large animal (big bear, moose, buffalo...) bang flop?

 

[John Wasmuth]

Muscle cells have an internal source of oxygen that doesn't require blood flow or delivery. Don't think it lasts long, but it should be good for a twitch or two. I was mostly trying for a joke with the guillotine questopns, but they are interesting. Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a large animal (big bear, moose, buffalo...) bang flop?

My bang flops on big stuff like bison are a result of head shots mostly back of head at axis joint. The 9,3x62 286 gr hornady interlocks at 2550 fps don’t mess around. I’ll grab the 9,3 more than any other rifle.

 

[BeeMaa]

Why the 9.5x72 is more powerful than both of these cartridges!

9.5x72 is my FAVORITE!!!

 

[Neophyte]

Popcorn anyone?
Since I’m left handed I went with a .375 Ruger with a left handed bolt. I also have a 6.5 Creedmoor and a .338 Win Mag. Anything I want to hunt I can hunt with those three.

 

[Lyleedward]

Wow ok. I think the 9.3 can be great with good bullets. The prob is I used one in Africa and the factory bullets were rubbish. Load 270 gr Woodliegh and much better combo. Not as much frontal penetration as 375. It’s much like 338 though. Great Plains game. Used a lot less powder than HH. And only couple hundred feet slower.

 

[Rule 303]

Re Bang Flops, have seen them and read plenty about them. The bang flops that are dead right there are either brain, neck or heart shots. My thinking for the bang flops with heart shots are the bullet hits the heart as it is releasing blood to the brain and a pressure wave to the brain through the blood vessels does the job. Just my thoughts I could well be wrong.

 

[petander]

Here is a good comparision, Norma factory ammo:

- 9,3x62 230 grain, 805 m/s

- 375 H&H 300 grain 780 m/s

- 35 Whelen 250 grain 740 m/s

Please excuse my metric.

I might open Quick Load tonight to see what it says about these, just out of curiosity. I guess they are all CIP.

------------

We had a moving moose target practise today. This is great fun and keeps you in shape. I'm 61 with a stent, need all the practise I can get.

The Horrible Double-Headed Moose:

 

[EfRed]

My bang flops on big stuff like bison are a result of head shots mostly back of head at axis joint. The 9,3x62 286 gr hornady interlocks at 2550 fps don’t mess around. I’ll grab the 9,3 more than any other rifle.

Destroys CNS continuity...

 

[John Wasmuth]

Destroys CNS continuity...

And quickly at that

 

[KCSafari]

I have both and both will do the same job. I can tell you that a 9.3x62 typically gets a lot more eyeballs in camp. Has a certain respect amongst farm owners. Lower recoil and great penetration.

We usually get worried when hunters show up with a 375 H&H because it’s the caliber that wounds the most animals. People just aren’t comfortable shooting it. Too big for most plains game I’d say. But perfect for Eland and larger.

 

[petander]

I have both and both will do the same job. I can tell you that a 9.3x62 typically gets a lot more eyeballs in camp. Has a certain respect amongst farm owners. Lower recoil and great penetration.

We usually get worried when hunters show up with a 375 H&H because it’s the caliber that wounds the most animals. People just aren’t comfortable shooting it. Too big for most plains game I’d say. But perfect for Eland and larger.

So now 9,3x62 is more powerful than 375 H&H while 375 H&H is wounding game because it is too powerful?

Look,if you get power, you get recoil. This praise of 9,3x62 beating 375 H&H with less recoil is starting to look funny.

And I had a 9,3x62 550. Killed a few moose with it only ,but the difference to a 30-06 was nonexistent. So I started to favor a Marlin 45-70. For handling.

Sorry. I also shoot 470 NE. Probably wounding game even more than with 375 -or at least not killing as good as a 9,3x62.

 

[Flewis]

No one is saying the 9.3 is more powerful than the 375. Like the 308 3006 comparison in most cases it will do the same job and is easier to shoot for some. I know that is still to complicated for some to understand.

 

[KCSafari]

No need to get emotional.
I’m speaking from experience. I own land in Africa and have seen hundreds of hunters come through. 375 H&H is the caliber that has wounded by far the most animals. Myself and all my neighbors see it. It’s more versatile than the 9.3x62 but hunters just aren’t as accurate because of the recoil. Leaves less consumable meat also.

 

[Rule 303]

No need to get emotional.
I’m speaking from experience. I own land in Africa and have seen hundreds of hunters come through. 375 H&H is the caliber that has wounded by far the most animals. Myself and all my neighbors see it. It’s more versatile than the 9.3x62 but hunters just aren’t as accurate because of the recoil. Leaves less consumable meat also.

Pardon me but this looks like calibre creep in the opposite direction. I have read countless posts and been told countless times that a 375H&H is preferred by PH's over a 400_ cal as shooters cannot handle the recoil of a 400+ calibre.
Do PH now start recommending that people bring a 9.3X62 or 35 Whelen if they cant handle the recoil of a 375H&H/Ruger.
So which is it????
Not getting emotional just want some rational though by all.

Now for those who cant handle the 375 and shoot badly did you or any of your mates see if those same people could shoot with a 9.3 or a 308 or a 243? Genuine question, because if you did not how do you know they are just shit shots?