9.3x62mm vs. .375 H&H Mag

[Flewis]

@Rick HOlbert
I would have no hesitation using the 35 Whelen on buff with 310gn sifts and solids at 2,350fps
A bullet with the same sd as a 350gn 375 and not much slower.
Sure not the same energy but will still do the job with projectiles placed in the same heart lung area.
I will still result in on very dead buff.
Ted Mitchell swears by his 358 Mitchell Express ( not quite as good as the Whelen) for dropping big water buffalo and scrub bulls.
Bob

Bob, I don’t think it would be slower and would most likely penetrate better. Less drag being of the smaller diameter. None of the 3 rounds kill with shock, they need penetration.

 

[hoytcanon]

You stick with the computer, I’ll stick with what works for me on game. Bigger does not equal better. If it did everyone would aspire to a .700.

My friend, I have been hunting and guiding for half a century, I have made and been present for hundreds of kills, believe me, I know what works in the field. As I said earlier I have a 9.3X62 and have had more than a dozen over the years, I have also had 20 or so .375's... they are both great cartridges and kill game well, but sentimentality aside, the 9.3 is subordinate to the .375... period... to argue differently is asinine. Field experience is anecdotal... you can find an equal number of people to swear one or the other is superior, but ballistic facts are ballistic facts, the .375 H&H is indeed a more powerful cartridge when compared equally to the 9.3X62.

Look... I am not here to kick anyone's puppy... the 9.3X62 is a great cartridge, I like it with 286 Partitions personally... but the .375 H&H is ballistically superior... marginally, but gun nutters love to argue in the margins.

 

[Rule 303]

Hi Rule 303,

I appreciate you sharing your friend's experience but I am not sure what your comment actually means "...he contended you can pick the difference between 9.3x62 and the 375 H&H."

I would love to know his thoughts regarding these two cartridges when used on large game like wild cattle and horses.

Thanks,
Bush Buck

Hi Bush Buck,
What he is saying is you can tell the difference between the two cartridges when used on those animals.

He in no way puts the 9.3x62 down, he thinks its a great cartridge but as he says it is not a 375H&H.

 

[hoytcanon]

Too bad you couldn't have enjoyed a laugh at my story about the pig rather than persisting in this stupid argument.

I didn't quote your pig story, I quoted your previous post.

 

[WAB]

My friend, I have been hunting and guiding for half a century, I have made and been present for hundreds of kills, believe me, I know what works in the field. As I said earlier I have a 9.3X62 and have had more than a dozen over the years, I have also had 20 or so .375's... they are both great cartridges and kill game well, but sentimentality aside, the 9.3 is subordinate to the .375... period... to argue differently is asinine. Field experience is anecdotal... you can find an equal number of people to swear one or the other is superior, but ballistic facts are ballistic facts, the .375 H&H is indeed a more powerful cartridge when compared equally to the 9.3X62.

Look... I am not here to kick anyone's puppy... the 9.3X62 is a great cartridge, I like it with 286 Partitions personally... but the .375 H&H is ballistically superior... marginally, but gun nutters love to argue in the margins.

You’re making an argument over nothing. Believe it or not many of us on here have that level of experience.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

@hoytcanon
Flowery sentiment or not the 9.3x62 has proven time and time again in the field. Paper ballistics don't always tell the full story, writers lie as well BUT real world evaluation on 1,000s of animals ove a century of field evaluation tells a more complete and reliable story.
A few thousand dead animals by a few thousand hunters using the 9.3x62 should be enough proof to anyone with more than an small amount of grey matter ( I'm not implying you are not intelligent) should provide enough real data that cartridge X works and works well.
Bob

I once asked a PH how well the .375 H&H is thought of in Africa. He replied very well, it preforms above the paper ballistics.
I will not get into the debate between the 9.3X62, .375 H&H, nor the .35 Whelen.
All are fine ctgs. & (as always) with proper placement, will give a good account of them selves.

 

[RichD]

My friend, I have been hunting and guiding for half a century, I have made and been present for hundreds of kills, believe me, I know what works in the field. As I said earlier I have a 9.3X62 and have had more than a dozen over the years, I have also had 20 or so .375's... they are both great cartridges and kill game well, but sentimentality aside, the 9.3 is subordinate to the .375... period... to argue differently is asinine. Field experience is anecdotal... you can find an equal number of people to swear one or the other is superior, but ballistic facts are ballistic facts, the .375 H&H is indeed a more powerful cartridge when compared equally to the 9.3X62.

Look... I am not here to kick anyone's puppy... the 9.3X62 is a great cartridge, I like it with 286 Partitions personally... but the .375 H&H is ballistically superior... marginally, but gun nutters love to argue in the margins.

With your many years of experience and knowledge of those 2 Calibers, what is your opinion of the .375 Ruger as a DG caliber? Thank you in advance for your input.

 

[hoytcanon]

With your many years of experience and knowledge of those 2 Calibers, what is your opinion of the .375 Ruger as a DG caliber? Thank you in advance for your input.

I have never hunted off NA... so unless grizzlies or 500+ pound black bears or 1000 pound bull moose make your list (doubtful), I have ZERO experience with African game, let alone the B5. But I have been guiding hunters off and on since I was 17, and seen an awful lot of animals go down to bullets and arrows. I'm a noobie here, as I am planning an African hunt for 2025... I'm approaching "bucket list" time and planning on getting it all done. There are plenty of experienced DG hunters here to respond to your question. For the purposes of the discussion taking place in this thread, I could be a nerd in a lab who has never seen an animal.

 

[Flewis]

Oh come on, that hasn’t held you back so far.

 

[hoytcanon]

You’re making an argument over nothing. Believe it or not many of us on here have that level of experience.

My friend, I am not "making an argument", nor am I impugning anyone's experience... this thread was a discussion comparing two cartridges... that is what we are doing. There of course is disagreement, but that is how consensus is arrived at... someone makes a point and someone else responds to it with agreement or a counter-perspective. In the end, you don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you but in the big picture, who cares? I will still shoot both of these cartridges and a plethora of others, with a smattering of wildcats thrown in to add spice. Take care and good shooting.

 

[hoytcanon]

Oh come on, that hasn’t held you back so far.

Why should it? I could be a 17 year old math nerd and have this discussion.

 

[RichD]

I have never hunted off NA... so unless grizzlies or 500+ pound black bears or 1000 pound bull moose make your list (doubtful), I have ZERO experience with African game, let alone the B5. But I have been guiding hunters off and on since I was 17, and seen an awful lot of animals go down to bullets and arrows. I'm a noobie here, as I am planning an African hunt for 2025... I'm approaching "bucket list" time and planning on getting it all done. There are plenty of experienced DG hunters here to respond to your question. For the purposes of the discussion taking place in this thread, I could be a nerd in a lab who has never seen an animal.

Ok. Thanks for your response. I know exactly what you mean my "bucket list".

 

[WAB]

Why should it? I could be a 17 year old math nerd and have this discussion.

But perhaps with a little less absolute authority given that you haven’t hunted anything that tests either of these cartridges. I know Kevin Robertson. It would be wise not to dismiss his opinion so lightly even if you disregard the rest of us out of hand.

 

[hoytcanon]

Oh come on, that hasn’t held you back so far.

Why should it? I could be a 17 year old math need and have this discussion.

But perhaps with a little less absolute authority given that you haven’t hunted anything that tests either of these cartridges. I know Kevin Robertson. It would be wise not to dismiss his opinion so lightly even if you disregard the rest of us out of hand.

I'm not disregarding anybody... but it is clear to most people that there is a whole lot of sentimentality when it comes to cartridges... gun nutters have their favorites and they stand by them... whether or not their opinions, however experienced, can be substantiated by physics. The authority I speak on has nothing to do with the animals I have taken... this isn't the dark ages, its called MATH... but it's all good... you do you.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, I don’t think it would be slower and would most likely penetrate better. Less drag being of the smaller diameter. None of the 3 rounds kill with shock, they need penetration.

@Flewis
The Whelen with a 225gn at 2,900fps will impart a big shock to the system.
Bob

 

[Tra3]

@hoytcanon Math and real world performance don’t always match up. I doubt anyone is claiming that the math based superiority of the .375 is incorrect. We all know that. The real world performance on big game between the two cartridges is negligible. The math doesn’t substantiate that the 9.3 is inferior in real world hunting.
There are many of us here that have personally shot more than 100 big game animals just in the last handful of years (or less!). And that doesn’t include the additional animals taken by members of his/her hunting party. Those hunters generally agree that the two calibers are interchangeable, whether or not the math irrefutably proves the .375 to have more energy.
I’m a fan of the .375. Until I got my daughter the 9.3 and found it to be delightfully effective.

 

[Rule 303]

I once asked a PH how well the .375 H&H is thought of in Africa. He replied very well, it preforms above the paper ballistics.
I will not get into the debate between the 9.3X62, .375 H&H, nor the .35 Whelen.
All are fine ctgs. & (as always) with proper placement, will give a good account of them selves.

I think my reference to the 35Whelen might have gone over a few heads. What I am saying is if Item C is as good as Item B and Bis as good as Item A then surely Item C is as good as Item A. We could take this further as some contend the 338/06 is as good as a 35 Whelen so by the logic used here it then must be as good as the 375H&H and so on down the calibre list we go. So where do you actually stop.
I am not denigrating any of these fine cartridges.

I am also being a little sarcastic in this comparison as I certainly do not believe the 35 Whelen is as good as a 375H&H .

In cold hard facts the 375H&H is a better cartridge for large game than the 9.3X62 given all are using equivalent bullets. The thing is how big is that difference and is that difference perceivable by the hunter.

I would say that of the two calibre and Elephant/ Buff shot in the heart the 375 H&H is the better as it puts a big hole there so more blood comes out in the same time. Now for the reality check. Each individual animal is difference and one may have more heart, so to speak, than the other. So it is the individual animal that may be the final deciding factor.

 

[hoytcanon]

@hoytcanon Math and real world performance don’t always match up. I doubt anyone is claiming that the math based superiority of the .375 is incorrect. We all know that. The real world performance on big game between the two cartridges is negligible. The math doesn’t substantiate that the 9.3 is inferior in real world hunting.
There are many of us here that have personally shot more than 100 big game animals just in the last handful of years (or less!). And that doesn’t include the additional animals taken by members of his/her hunting party. Those hunters generally agree that the two calibers are interchangeable, whether or not the math irrefutably proves the .375 to have more energy.
I’m a fan of the .375. Until I got my daughter the 9.3 and found it to be delightfully effective.

I have seen the real world performance of both cartridges many, many times, I have been using them for four decades, and have had many clients use them as well. On a lung/heart shot of course there is little difference, Bob's Whelen would work the same with a 250 Partition, the .338 WM would work the same with a 225 Partition and in all likelihood a .30/06 with a 200 Partition would also take them off their feet... is anyone here making the argument that the .30/06 and .375 H&H are the same? Nope... and while the 9.3X62 and .375 H&H will do the same job, with the same bullet placed in the same spot... the H&H does have a marginal edge... period... that wouldn't change if you had shot 10,000 animals or million, it has an edge.... the caveat is that the edge will rarely have any significant bearing on real world results because bullet construction and shot placement trump the ballistics. This discussion has run its course for me... you passionate history buffs go ahead and cling to your beliefs... I will continue to happily shoot both cartridges.

 

[UpNorthMI]

Keeping this simple, a lot has been said ! I own both and enjoy shooting them both, they both produce great results.

 

[Bush Buck]

I enjoy both of these cartridges. I happen to own a lightweight 375 H&H that I like to hunt. I find it very easy to load my 375 to modern 9.3x62 ballistics with low pressure and long brass life. These loads work great on game (no surprise).
On the other hand, reaching some of the claimed velocities in modern 9.3x62 loads is tricky and generally requires a switch to less heat stable ball powders.

For dangerous game I would choose the 375 H&H. For everything else I would probably choose the rifle I wanted to use and be happy with either cartridge.