9.3x62 Penetration On Large Game

[CoElkHunter]

I think you'd do fine with the 375 for everything. But what fun is that???

NO fun and too late! I just bought my FIRST large bore! A .458 Winchester Magnum field grade CZ 550 Safari Classic w/an American style stock! It is balanced nicely, comes up to a shooting position without hesitation and the express sights are beautiful! The weight w/o a scope is a non-issue for me from a standing position. I put a one inch leather sling (military style) and slip on Limbsaver recoil pad. There is a little trigger creep I noticed, but I'm not using it (yet, maybe) to shoot prairie dogs at 300 yds. I put a little Rem. oil on the bolt slide rails and the action is smooth. I've read on AH some people considered the action "rough"? I don't see that yet at this point. Haven't shot it yet as I'm waiting on some ammo I ordered. I've been looking for a .458WM for some time and have wanted to own one forever! I looked for a 602 BRNO for quite awhile, but I couldn't pass up the deal I found on this new rifle. BUT, like every rifle I have bought that was unfamiliar to ME, I play the "devils advocate", and try to find ALL the potential issues which would/will lead me to get rid of it or trade it to TOBY 458 for his Winchester. Ha! Ha! Anyway, the ammo will be here soon and I can then do some field testing on stuff. Logs, steel plates, old Chevy pick up trucks, etc. I have a .375 h and h, but I remember Elmer Keith's quote years ago when asked about the .375. "Well, the .375 is a good whitetail gun". I know, different time, place, circumstances, etc. But, as I age, the time is now! Go big or go home! Field tests coming up!

 

[TOBY458]

You hurt my feelings Toby! I do use my 375 for everything (in Africa, ie).

I would too if I didn't have to justify owning a 416! Lol!

 

[Shootist43]

Toby 458, you forgot to add the words "and larger."

 

[HENRY GRIFFITHS SAFARIS]

We have used them quite a bid for body shots on giraffe, and they work very well provided you use a good bullet,

 

[Milehighshooter]

I'm new to AH. I have seen the 9.3x62 mentioned many times, so I was curious and researched the cartridge. A .366 caliber cartridge, similar to the ballistics of and the length of my .338 Win Mag. with no belt. I had always wondered why no one (commercially) necked up a .338 length case to a .375 caliber (or close)? I noticed this cartridge was developed in 1905. Maybe that's why, because this cartridge was already developed and has worked well on all types of game. Interesting cartridge to a novice on metric big game hunting cartridges! On a side note, if anyone might know, are the Ruger beltless .375 and .416s based off the .404 Jeffrey cartridge? Thank you!

The Ruger 375/416 are the same length as the 338, beltless, with a wider case.

There was the 375 Hawk/Scovill, which for ease of discussion is a 375-06 Improved. It's a bit slower than the H&H, but less recoil and usually at least 1 more cartridge in the magazine.

There was the wildcat 375 Chatfield-Taylor, which was the 338 Win necked up to 375. It came extremely close to the H&H.

I myself, am really considering a 375 Whelen. I already have a factory Win 70 375 (which I'll probably sell after finishing the new stock) a M70 375 custom that should be here today or tomorrow, and a short, handy, light all weather 376 Steyr being built. Same Smith is also putting together a 9.3x62 for me.

When the guns are all finished, seeing as you're also in Colorado, we might be able to arrange a little range session if you want to check out these new-to-you cartridges! Hopefully I'll have my 400 Whelen shooting by then, too

 

[CoElkHunter]

The Ruger 375/416 are the same length as the 338, beltless, with a wider case.

There was the 375 Hawk/Scovill, which for ease of discussion is a 375-06 Improved. It's a bit slower than the H&H, but less recoil and usually at least 1 more cartridge in the magazine.

There was the wildcat 375 Chatfield-Taylor, which was the 338 Win necked up to 375. It came extremely close to the H&H.

I myself, am really considering a 375 Whelen. I already have a factory Win 70 375 (which I'll probably sell after finishing the new stock) a M70 375 custom that should be here today or tomorrow, and a short, handy, light all weather 376 Steyr being built. Same Smith is also putting together a 9.3x62 for me.

When the guns are all finished, seeing as you're also in Colorado, we might be able to arrange a little range session if you want to check out these new-to-you cartridges! Hopefully I'll have my 400 Whelen shooting by then, too

Yes, that would be great! I live in Colorado Springs and I'm a member of a range just east of here. Or we could go somewhere up by Denver? I just bought a CZ 550 .458 Win Mag and now have some cartridges (Barnes 450gr TSX) for it. I'm going to try to get to the range soon. PM me when you want to go. BTW, if you or anyone else on this post knows anyone with a .470NE or .500NE, I have a lead on some ammo. $40.00us for 10 rounds or $500.00us for 140 rounds (that's 7 boxes), from a guy in Montana. I just bought some Barnes 450gr. TSX from him. He's on Gun Broker, but his ammo isn't specifically by caliber. I found his ammo while looking for .458s. The RELOADED ammo he's advertised is with 500-570gr. Woodleighs and/or 500gr. Barnes solids. He bought a reloading shop with the inventory and is deeply discounting what he currently doesn't want to reload. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he would want me to post his email address/phone number or he's under "Pro-Loading" seller on Gun Broker. Just FYI!

 

[CoElkHunter]

The Ruger 375/416 are the same length as the 338, beltless, with a wider case.

There was the 375 Hawk/Scovill, which for ease of discussion is a 375-06 Improved. It's a bit slower than the H&H, but less recoil and usually at least 1 more cartridge in the magazine.

There was the wildcat 375 Chatfield-Taylor, which was the 338 Win necked up to 375. It came extremely close to the H&H.

I myself, am really considering a 375 Whelen. I already have a factory Win 70 375 (which I'll probably sell after finishing the new stock) a M70 375 custom that should be here today or tomorrow, and a short, handy, light all weather 376 Steyr being built. Same Smith is also putting together a 9.3x62 for me.

When the guns are all finished, seeing as you're also in Colorado, we might be able to arrange a little range session if you want to check out these new-to-you cartridges! Hopefully I'll have my 400 Whelen shooting by then, too

Well, I know this isn't the correct forum for these .458 WM threads/posts, but Toby 458 started this! Ha!Ha! Anyway, some day I would love to own a 9.3x62 or even a 9.3x64 if I could find cases for it and if everyone here thinks it has enough penetration for hunting Wapiti. But, in the meantime, I went to the range today and fired 8 rounds through my .458WM. I've never fired one before, but the recoil wasn't bad at all. I used a Limbsaver slip on recoil pad over the factory CZ pad, and I shot from both the bench with a bi-pod and standing with a leather military style sling using a triangular position with open sights. The CZ functioned well with factory Barnes 450gr TSX cartridges. My only issue was the small dot on the front sight. My eyes aren't what they used to be, so I need to find a larger front dot. I know this doesn't mean much to all of you seasoned large bore African rifle shooters, but to someone like me (and probably many others on this AH website), it was a joy to shoot the .458 and it wasn't the BEAST to shoot like I was anticipating it would be.

 

[Milehighshooter]

9.3x62 is plenty for elk, 9.3x64 is just more of a good thing. Its like taking the difference of a 30-06 vs 300 win mag. Same bullet, more oomph. Although if you don't hand load, I'd advise against the x64. Frankly any 9.3 is tough in our part of the world unless you're totally ok with ordering all your components online.

If you're considering the x62, I highly suggest a re-bore. JES in Oregon can turn a 270 or 30-06 into a x62 for $250 and 2 week's wait.

 

[CoElkHunter]

9.3x62 is plenty for elk, 9.3x64 is just more of a good thing. Its like taking the difference of a 30-06 vs 300 win mag. Same bullet, more oomph. Although if you don't hand load, I'd advise against the x64. Frankly any 9.3 is tough in our part of the world unless you're totally ok with ordering all your components online.

If you're considering the x62, I highly suggest a re-bore. JES in Oregon can turn a 270 or 30-06 into a x62 for $250 and 2 week's wait.

Yes, thanks for the info. That's great to know about the x62. But, I've been using my Browning A Bolt .338WM for elk and it has been a great elk rifle. I just want to hunt with something different for different (preferably African someday) game. But anyway, when you get your rifles together, we will go shooting!

 

[bruce moulds]

that 338 could possibly be rebored to 9.3x64.
try one and you will like it.
just remember that the 286 nosler is not enough bullet for it.
the noses are meant for slower 9.3s.
anything swift will do it for you. 250, 286, and 300 gns will cover most things.
it will kick like a 375 h&h, so rifle weight might be worth consideration.
the 300 gn swift can do 2550 plus, and the 286 can do 2650.
bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

sorry 338 boltface too big for 9.3x64.
opening up a 30/06 boltface is good.
bruce.

 

[Eric Anderson]

Here is a excerpt from a penetration test with 9.3 softs done for African Hunter magazine

While that is a good baseline, no two shots are alike, even firing into the same carcass.
You really need ballistics gell with fresh hide in front for apples to apples comparison for basic data.

 

[CoElkHunter]

that 338 could possibly be rebored to 9.3x64.
try one and you will like it.
just remember that the 286 nosler is not enough bullet for it.
the noses are meant for slower 9.3s.
anything swift will do it for you. 250, 286, and 300 gns will cover most things.
it will kick like a 375 h&h, so rifle weight might be worth consideration.
the 300 gn swift can do 2550 plus, and the 286 can do 2650.
bruce.

Thanks for the info! I really like the information I've read here on AH regarding the large bore metric calibers. It seems that depending on what continent and/or what country you live in, determines the ready availability of certain cartridges. AND the price for the ammunition or reloading components. The brass cases and reloading dies seem to be the most difficult to find at a REASONABLE price for certain cartridges here in the states. For instance, I couldn't find 9.3x64 cases or dies here. Now, someone will respond here with a website for those items, but they'll be much MUCH more expensive, than say .300WM or .338WM or even the WEATHERBY ammunition or components. Here in the states, I can buy inexpensive (relatively) common large bore cartridges or components in .458WM, .375 H and H mag, .375 or .416 Ruger, 416 Remington or even Rigby, etc. So, while I would like to "delve" into some of these large bore metric cartridges, I just can't justify to myself the added time and expense procuring them (9.3x62 is probably the exception, but I own a .338WM). I was thinking of eventually building a rifle in the .416 Taylor cartridge, as I could use my .458WM brass to create cases for this cartridge. I've been unable to locate .416 Taylor dies. Sure, I guess I could have one of the die companies make "custom" dies for about $200.00us or more, but I'm not willing to do that when I could buy .416 Remington or Rigby dies for $60-70us or LESS and the cases are relatively inexpensive if you shop around online (i.e. Gun Broker). The rifles or re-boring/re-barreling of a rifle for this caliber would be about the same? This is just an observation of what I've read here on AH with regards to the availability and cost of metric and standard cartridges and how it varies from country/continents. Thanks!

 

[bruce moulds]

your points are good ones.
the 9.3x64 is currently one for enthusiasts.
if you just have to know what it can really do, there is only one way to find out. that is get one and shoot a lot of things with it using quality bullets.
if you want it easy, get a 375 h&h and live happily ever after.
there is a wildcat ballistic twin to the 9.3x64, and that is the 338 necked up to 9.3mm.
in fact the cases are sooo similar except for the belt.
both will go into a 30/06 length action.
there is an Australian company called simplex that makes reasonably priced 9.3x64 dies.
if more people got 9.3x64s cases and dies would become more available, and then one or more big gunmakers would start chambering for it.
we live in hope.
in the meantime, rws brass is up there with the best.
once you have cases and dies, it is just like any calibre.
bruce.

 

[Daga Boy]

9.3 x 62 is used widely in these parts for all types of game and it enjoys a very good reputation.
Its an excellent choice for someone looking for an all round/one gun solution for all "bushveld" applications - i.e. from warthogs to buffalo and giraffe at ranges from as close as 20m to maybe 200m but typically 50-80m.
Penetration depends on a number of factors, but typically a quality 286gr conventional bullet or 250gr monometal bullet at standard velocities will penetrate the vitals of a buffalo shot on the shoulder but not exit. The fact that it doesn't generally exit limits the risk of accidental wounding but the downside is that there will be less of a blood trail.
I know that this calibre is sometimes used at fairly long ranges (300m) but would not personally choose it for that type of application.
The only "downfall" which it has is that it is not a good charge stopper. However the same may be said of the various 375 calibre cartridges.
For dedicated buffalo/DG applications a bigger calibre is advisable, especially in thick bush country.
For those who do not mind the recoil one of the .416's makes a better all round big game cartridge. They shoot flat enough for all African applications other than dessert and mountains and they have the energy to take out any animal including elephant. Penetration is typically outstanding (as in length ways through a buffalo). Such extreme penetration carries some risks , but it also has advantages(see above). As mentioned, recoil also tends to be quite severe.
For real close up work a cartridge of .450 cal with 5000 ft/lbs muzzle energy should be regarded as the safe minimum and the rule "bigger is better" applies; however these are specialised rifles which cannot by any stretch of the imagination be described as all rounders. All else aside, they tend to be very heavy. It also takes practice to be able to shoot them well. Ultimately they are better suited to a PH than the client hunter.
For a client hunter coming to Africa for a plains game hunt with possibly a lion and/or buffalo thrown in you cant really go wrong with either a 9.3 or one of the .375s. Which exact calibre and rifle combo you opt for will ultimately come down to personal preference. Shorter (like myself) people will typically prefer the 9.3 or .375Ruger to the .375H&H simply because they are more compact. This is a very important consideration as ease of handling and ability with the weapon are ultimately much more important in a typical bush scenario than a few thousands of an inch in diameter or a couple of hundred feet per second at the muzzle.
I hope this helps

 

[sgt_zim]

piggy-backing on @bruce moulds - 9.3x64, while a great cartridge, can be exceptionally difficult to find brass. With x62, 2300-2400 fps is more than plenty for 286 gr and 300 gr bullets, and 2500-2600 is plenty for the 250 gr TSX and NAB. The latter 2, you may notice, come very close to 250 gr performance you get from 338 WM.

With a 300 gr A-Frame out of an x64, I'd expect you would have better penetration than any of the 375s shooting 300 gr bullets of any construction because of the higher SD. It's a good cartridge, except for lack of availability of components. Not to mention you'd probably have to build a rifle that would shoot it unless you were lucky enough to find somebody getting rid of theirs for some reason.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i have used the 9.3x62 in Africa, it will work, until does not. and than you may have a few minutes of pure terror. bigger is never bad.

 

[Milehighshooter]

A rebore of a 270 or 30-06 to 9.3x62 is easiest and cheapest, as nothing else needs to be changed. Send it to JES Reboring in Oregon, 2-3 weeks later and $250 lighter wallet, and you're in business. A x64 is going to require more work as it has a non standard rim diameter in between standard (.470) and magnum (.532). Your only option is to buy a 30-06 based rifle and have it opened up. A 35 or 375 Whelen rebore would be super simple, too, and you could use 30-06 cases to neck up, with more commonly available bullets vs 9.3

Or if you feel really frisky, you could jump on the 400 Whelen bandwagon, but its handload only. Re-barrel would run about $500, dies from CH4D are 90. Proper brass is a little pricey (Quality Cartridge) but readily available. It'll match the 450/400 NE throwing a 400gr bullet around 2150 fps, all from a 30-06 based case/ rifle. 300gr @ 2500 and excellent 350/360's @ 2300 ish.

Also, check CH4D for the 416 Taylor dies, they're probably an in stock item for 80ish bucks.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I will pick up my new Sako 85 in 9.3x62 tomorrow. I plan to use it as my plains game rifle, and possibly Buffalo if the occasion should arrise.
My question is, how does the 9.3 compare to larger calibers when it comes to penetration on Large animals like, Buffalo, Eland, Hippo, and even Elephant.
Does it offer enough penetration to comfortably take a frontal chest shot on a Cape Buffalo? How about a frontal brain shot on an Elephant?
I know this all depends on the bullets being used, but let's just say they're all using Barnes TSX, Swift A Frame, or something similar. Or solids on Elephant.
Also, how does it do on Lion with lighter weight bullets?
My new rifle is going to be lightweight and handy to carry on all day hunts. I look forward to shooting it and learning more about this legendary caliber.

@TOBY458
If'n you want extreme penetration for the big stuff get some Woodleigh hydrostatic stabilized projectiles for your 9.3.
Loaded up 10 of those as well as your plains game cartridges.
The hydros will have more than enough penetration for what you need.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

this cartridge could best be described as a good one for top half of the plains game spectrum where you might also encounter a buffalo, lion, or leopard.
it is easier to shoot than a 375, and therefore easier to shoot well.
a good 7mm will complete a good plains game battery.
probably will never shoot an elephant, but would look at a 45 personally.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Loaded some hydros in that 64 Bruce, it should penetrate enough.
Bob