7mm rifles, whats your thoughts, favourites

[ILCAPO]

Forgive me for saying this, because I'm no Jack O'Connor fanboy, but... once you've neutered a 7mm Mauser or 7x64 by making a 7-08 and throttling down to 140gr bullets or less, might as well just go get a .270 winchester, shoot a .277" bullet, and call it a day.

Americanization of metric calibers has always trended towards the lackluster. A beautiful 6.5x55 becomes a lame .260. A great 7x57 becomes a lethargic 7-08. A 9.3x62 becomes a 358 winchester.

EVEN if the metric-euro calibers were worse (they're not) than the American knock-offs, one problem still remains. 99.99% of American caliber 7mm guns are ugly as sin, whereas many of the european metric guns are exhibition quality. Ironically, sometimes for the same exact price as the american model too!

Actually, your reference to the 358 Winchester is incorrect. The appropriate comparison for the 9.3x62mm is the .35 Whelen. They're very close. The typical factory load for the Whelen is a bit less as I understand it vis-a-vis the Mauser, but custom ammo is available that takes it up to near equivalent.

Regarding ugly guns, I think that's in the eyes of the beholder. Depends on the gun.

 

[Newboomer]

Here comes the 0,01% beautyfull american 7mm gun.....

Ruger No 1 RSI in 7x57!


HWL

Actually, your reference to the 358 Winchester is incorrect. The appropriate comparison for the 9.3x62mm is the .35 Whelen. They're very close. The typical factory load for the Whelen is a bit less as I understand it vis-a-vis the Mauser, but custom ammo is available that takes it up to near equivalent.

Regarding ugly guns, I think that's in the eyes of the beholder. Depends on the gun.

Winchester M70 ain't no ugly gun.

 

[bruce moulds]

personally I find more euroguns ugly, and some buttugly compared to most American rifles.
also the modern American boltgun has on average far better stock design that the average eurogun, many of which have not advanced in reality since ww2.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

We Americans have also had our bouts with the finer points of tasteful stock fashion and artistic impression. Plastic canoe paddles, pressed in skip checkering, pistol grip flares and cut back angles on forends, flared butt pads, multi-colored plastic spacers, laser wood engravings of Bambi chasing butterflies or dogs playing pool, pink camo splatter finish, Smurfs and Snoopy, etc., etc.

But yes I agree about the generalities if comparing US “normal standard” with Continental “normal standard” over the past 50 -60 years or so.

 

[Standard Velocity]

The Weatherby stock designs are aesthetically my least favorite though the ergonomics do work well for recoil. I do not understand high gloss stocks with pistol grip flares and the skip line checkering is baffling. Laser engraved anything is also not for me.

On the European side I understand the stocks designed for open sight use but don’t like the droopy look of ones so intended. The high end carved stocks also have no appeal. Well executed checkering looks much better to me.

 

[ILCAPO]

I think the Winchester Model 70 featherweight, with its Schnabel for end, is a sleek looking piece.

My Browning A-bolt hunter in 7mm Rem Mag, which was my first gun (bought for hunting mule deer and elk in Colorado) is a fine looking piece. Better now than when I bought it though. After several hunts, the stock got a little scratched up. Being stained plain walnut, I just took to sanding it a little to get out the nicks, etc. But when I did so, low and behold, I found an actually lovely piece of wood underneath. Turns out they simply hung their walnut stocks up and spray painted them during production. That's why it was so plain jane with no real grain markings in it. The 'spray paint' method of staining them covered up what turned out to be a rather nice looking piece of work. I then used some American walnut furniture stain I had, gave it a couple coats, and then gave it several layers of clear coat, using steel wool between each application. Finished it off with Johnson's furniture wax and it wound up considerably nicer looking than when I bought it. The design is rather sleek, at least to me, and with the better looking wood furniture on it, I'm quite happy.

Pulled the Leupold Vari-X III 2.5x8 power scope, which I then put on a new addition to my gun collection -- a Savage Model 1899 lever gun in .250-3000 (250 Savage) -- and put a Simmons long-range scope (4.5x12 I believe it is) with large optical lens in its place. So, my mag is ready for some long range shooting.

You should see my two project guns built on VZ-24 Czech Mauser actions; one's a 257 Roberts and the other is a .325 Whelen. But that's another story.

 

[fourfive8]

I do like the aesthetics and ergonomics of standard mid to late 20th century American bolt guns like the Ruger 77, the Remington 700 (sans the bar top epoxy finish) and the Winchester 70. But I don't have one in 7mm. Long ago we had a Ruger 77 in 7x57 in the family. Really a nice, all around hunting rifle that accounted for a bunch of elk and deer. Never really wanted a 7 mag of any variety- not the Remington, not the RUM, not the STW nor any 7mm wildcat. After all at that time I had an 8mm Rem Mag that covered all the ground and then some any of the 7s could.

Currently my only 7mm is a 7x57, a Chilean M 1895 Mauser by Loewe. Like all military rifles of the era, no matter US or Euro, this one is pure utilitarian. The simplicity, functionality and absolutely superb quality of workmanship it reflects has a strong appeal all its own. I'll look at some of the "guns" being made and marketed now and for quite some time really, compare them to this one, then shake my head.... not even close.

After almost 50 years of gathering and building, the last 5 years or so been in a selling and thinning mood. My current herd is fairly thin and simple spanning 22rf, 222, 270, 7x57, 338-06, 416, 450. The only caliber/rifle I would even consider adding today would be a Win M 70 in 300 HH.

Here's the M 1895 that has such an appeal to me. Got it several years ago in unfired condition.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I do like the aesthetics and ergonomics of standard mid to late 20th century American bolt guns like the Ruger 77, Remington 700 (sans the bar top epoxy finish) and Winchester 70. But I don't have one in 7mm. Long ago we had a Ruger 77 in 7x57 in the family. Really a nice, all around hunting rifle that accounted for a bunch of elk and deer. Never really wanted a 7 mag of any variety- not the Remington, not the RUM, not the STW nor any 7mm wildcat.

Currently my only 7mm is a 7x57, a Chilean M 1895 Mauser by Loewe. Like all military rifles of the era, no matter US or Euro, this one is pure utilitarian. The simplicity, functionality and absolutely superb quality of workmanship it reflects has a strong appeal all its own. I'll look at some of the "guns" being made and marketed now and for quite some time really, compare them to this one, then shake my head.... not even close. After years of gathering and building, I've thinned down- my current herd is fairly thin and simple spanning 22rf, 222, 270, 7x57, 338-06, 416, 450. The only caliber/rifle I would even consider adding today would be a Win M 70 in 300 HH.

Here's the M 1895 that has such an appeal to me. Got it several years ago in unfired condition.

View attachment 325191

I like that rifle. I have one similar, though mine was built for Chile, it’s a 98 Mauser carbine with a bent down bolt handle. It has been left the same as the day it left the factory, and I’m not going to change anything. Plus I can shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards with the irons. Much better than dads Yugo 8mm Mauser.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi,

Agree with you, fourfive8!
"The simplicity, functionality and absolutely superb quality of workmanship it reflects has a strong appeal all its own. I'll look at some of the "guns" being made and marketed now and for quite some time really, compare them to this one, then shake my head.... not even close."
A very accurate description. I had the same feelings when I got my second rifle, a "modern" rifle in .308 Win, a very good modern one, after many years with my only rifle, an original 7mm Mauser DWM Sporting M93 action "Plezier" Mauser. I have both but my heart is with the DWM, still with its original blueing!

Best

CF

 

[Mike Van Horn]

I think the Winchester Model 70 featherweight, with its Schnabel for end, is a sleek looking piece.

My Browning A-bolt hunter in 7mm Rem Mag, which was my first gun (bought for hunting mule deer and elk in Colorado) is a fine looking piece. Better now than when I bought it though. After several hunts, the stock got a little scratched up. Being stained plain walnut, I just took to sanding it a little to get out the nicks, etc. But when I did so, low and behold, I found an actually lovely piece of wood underneath. Turns out they simply hung their walnut stocks up and spray painted them during production. That's why it was so plain jane with no real grain markings in it. The 'spray paint' method of staining them covered up what turned out to be a rather nice looking piece of work. I then used some American walnut furniture stain I had, gave it a couple coats, and then gave it several layers of clear coat, using steel wool between each application. Finished it off with Johnson's furniture wax and it wound up considerably nicer looking than when I bought it. The design is rather sleek, at least to me, and with the better looking wood furniture on it, I'm quite happy.

Pulled the Leupold Vari-X III 2.5x8 power scope, which I then put on a new addition to my gun collection -- a Savage Model 1899 lever gun in .250-3000 (250 Savage) -- and put a Simmons long-range scope (4.5x12 I believe it is) with large optical lens in its place. So, my mag is ready for some long range shooting.

You should see my two project guns built on VZ-24 Czech Mauser actions; one's a 257 Roberts and the other is a .325 Whelen. But that's another story.

Hopefully you have plans to use that savage 99. You will find the 250-3000 a very pleasant cartridge

 

[ILCAPO]

Hopefully you have plans to use that savage 99. You will find the 250-3000 a very pleasant cartridge

Typo. Make that a .35 Whelen. And yes, the Savage is one of my favorites. It's a perfect deer gun for around here (Virginia). I took a doe a few years back at about 70 yards. She dropped where she stood with a shot to the chest. Got up on her front legs, staggered, and fell. Then got up on her hind legs, staggered a moment and fell. The tail flickered a few times and that was it. When I opened her up I found the chest cavity full of blood. She's bled out quickly. The 100 grain .25 cal bullet (I think this was Remington Core-lok) hit exactly where I pointed it, just behind the left shoulder, broke three ribs, turned to the right and drove through both lungs, smashed through three of the lower ribs on the right side and stopped. It apparently rebounded on the hide on the far side. So, all the energy was dumped in the animal.

I read the .250 Savage (.250-3000) is a great round for medium sized deer out to 175 yards. From my experience, it appears to be so. I love the light weight and easy handlong of this gun. That said, it's for here. I understand pumps, levers and autoloaders are not authorized in Africa. Same with most other countries outside North America.

Ireland restricts (or at least used to) rifles to no more than .270 caliber (maybe 7mm). So, .30-06s are too big.

 

[ILCAPO]

I do like the aesthetics and ergonomics of standard mid to late 20th century American bolt guns like the Ruger 77, the Remington 700 (sans the bar top epoxy finish) and the Winchester 70. But I don't have one in 7mm. Long ago we had a Ruger 77 in 7x57 in the family. Really a nice, all around hunting rifle that accounted for a bunch of elk and deer. Never really wanted a 7 mag of any variety- not the Remington, not the RUM, not the STW nor any 7mm wildcat. After all at that time I had an 8mm Rem Mag that covered all the ground and then some any of the 7s could.

Currently my only 7mm is a 7x57, a Chilean M 1895 Mauser by Loewe. Like all military rifles of the era, no matter US or Euro, this one is pure utilitarian. The simplicity, functionality and absolutely superb quality of workmanship it reflects has a strong appeal all its own. I'll look at some of the "guns" being made and marketed now and for quite some time really, compare them to this one, then shake my head.... not even close.

After almost 50 years of gathering and building, the last 5 years or so been in a selling and thinning mood. My current herd is fairly thin and simple spanning 22rf, 222, 270, 7x57, 338-06, 416, 450. The only caliber/rifle I would even consider adding today would be a Win M 70 in 300 HH.

Here's the M 1895 that has such an appeal to me. Got it several years ago in unfired condition.

View attachment 325191

Interesting. I have a Ruger Model 77 in 7 x 57, and that is another one I favor for hunting around here. I also have a Chilean Mauser in same, and a Brazilian, along with a Swede in 6.5x55m and a Yugo Mauser in 7.9mm. All are original military pieces in my collection. But my favorite collector on the military rack is the M1 Garand.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If I were to purchase a 7mm right now it would be a 280.

Wyatt Smith
Love the 280 but I would go the 280AI in a kimber or nosler 48. There is just something about the AI version better than some not as good as others but just right for everything.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Ragman]

I've had a 7mm Rem Mags (first a Smith & Wesson 1500 and now a Tikka T3) for 30 years and have killed a pile of whitetails, mulies and moose with it. It's the only 7mm cartridge that I've ever used and I've been satisfied with that. But for the last couple of years I have REALLY been wanting a 7-08 Rem! I've been trying to resist to keep my rifle budget and numbers down, but it's getting harder!!!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I can't help but notice the original poster is from Australia, but most of the answers that explain cartridge popularity and availability are from a USA perspective. From my limited understanding of the Australian market, it seems not so different than much of the rest of the British commonwealth. European products are widely available, and American products do not wholly dominate. So finding a good rifle and easily available high quality ammunition is easy for European cartridges. Same in much of Africa. That would place the 7x64 at the top of my recommendations. I currently have two 7x64's three 7x57's and two 7mm08 rifles. All are fine choices for a light hunting rifle at home or abroad. It would be really silly to choose a rifle for the .275 Rigby then try to explain why your paperwork does not match your 7x57 ammunition when passing through airport security and customs. Nice rifles and wonderful cartridge otherwise! The 7x64 offers a little more speed with light bullets, a little more punch with heavies. No noticeable disadvantage in kick or muzzle blast. The 7mm Remington magnum is a very fine cartridge, but in my opinion not "better" for hunting the size of animals appropriate to shoot with a 7mm. The .280 is of course no different than the 7x64, it's just that the 7x64 has a better market presence everywhere but the USA.

Longwalker
In fact the opposite is true here in Australia mate. European cartridges are hard to get here unless you can get hold of expensive Norma or RWS ammo. American cartridges are by far easier. You can get 280AI easier than 7x64. 7mm mausers are also easy to come by. 7mm 08 is over $50 A box of 20.
I find it strange that no one has yet mentioned the 7mm Mauser AI, a well balanced and a bit more of a good thing.
When the 280 was introduced Remington only loaded it to low pressure for their 7400 auto. This made it only fractionally better than the 7mm mausers.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Interesting reading and has enlightened me to a couple of cartridges that I hadn’t heard of.
Yes @Longwalker I am an Aussie poster and I’d say your observation is correct but I believe that we have more of an American influence on chambering and cartridge selection across the board. At least as you go into the country and selection is limited.
Something like 6.5x55 was common when they imported and sporterised many rifles some 30 years ago. It can still be found in a new Tikka rifle.
As for European cartridges or chambering’s or metric classifications maybe not so much. 9.3x64 or something .
With the availability of Tikka rifles there are some metric options and maybe in Sako and others but the common stuff that farmers use or everyone has and is on the shelf would be .223, .22-250, .243, 270, .308 maybe 7mmRem or .300wm. I know a few with WSSM short mag rounds but I I have stuck with common calibres myself. Other than 7mm-08 that was a Tikka CTR that I got on clearance from a large retailer. My guess is they were not good sellers but I wanted a .7mm-08 and a compact rifle. I’m happy.
The .280 and.280ai sound interesting. If the AI is approaching the REm mag that’s interesting but the RM will have better availability here at least.
A quick look at Tikka shows 7x64 listed but not 7x57 where I was looking. I don’t think rifles will be stocked in many places. Ammo Maybe I primed cases and start from scratch but that’s not so bad.
I wonder what other Aussies think on these options and availability.

CBH
Chris if I was limited to 3 rifles they would all be non magnum
My 25/303Epps Newton improved
35 Whelen
And 280AI, there's something about it that just grabs me. Always liked the 7mm
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So I don’t have a chronograph or ballistics s software. I ask questions here out of interest and there are people here with far more technical knowledge of ballistics.
I formed an opinion years ago the 7mm-08 “May” be a great all rounder for Australia. Based on some people want a short action for hunting and some species of deer need a minimum calibre of .270, this covers both. There was nothing scientific about my theory but I liked the idea. 3 years ago I got an opprtunity to buy a Tikka CTR in 7mm-08 on clearance at about 1/3 off. I’m pretty happy with it.
@Mr Zorg you seem to be a bit of a ballistics Buff, what do you think of the CTR with a 1 in 9.5 inch barrel . They have a longer magazine too that allows longer case OAL. That may help unleash the potential.
FYI, in Australia .223 and .308 would outsell 7mm-08 by some multiples of tens maybe even 100:1.
7mmRM while widely available is still a jump into that Magnum class and not for everyone.
7mm’s of sorts and projectiles can be easily found but not in the variety of .308 offerings.
All that said it’s interesting to see the .280, 7x64 come close to the 7mmRem although not so common in Australia from what I can tell.

CBH
Uncle Nick Harvey reckons the test of any 7mm is with a good 160gn bullet. He reckons any 7mm capable of pushing a 160grain to close on 3,000fps is good for all round use.
Some Indian Prince years ago shot all around the world using a 7x57 loaded by a Canadian company with a 154 grain projectile and never missed a beat on any game on any continent.
My gunsmith Rob Spittles has a beautiful fully restored 7x57 military rifle with a 29inch barrel, he absolutely loves it. Shoots itty bitty groups at 500yards with open sights.
Cheers mate Bob
Yes I do have a soft spot for the 7mm even thought of converting a No4 SMLE to 7x57R at one stage.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well, here are the American reloading tables published by Nosler, an American company, for the Made in USA 7mm 175 grain Partition projectile mentioned, simple impartial data.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/7mm-08-remington/

Maximum table velocity is 2623 fps (American units) for 7mm-08.

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/7x57mm-mauser/

Maximum table velocity is 2574 fps for 7X57mm.

I see those as equivalent with the known dispassionate scientific principles of repeatability and reproduceability, especially when lot-to-lot variations in batches of propellant are logically considered. Nothing I can see qualifies as "neutered" in either set of data to my American vision and cognition.

I am open to reviewing honest independent chronograph data. I have absolutely nothing "against" any specific cartridge or projectile from any particular corner of the globe. The Norma and PPU loaded ammunition and component projectiles I have purchased and posted about should be enough for rational evidence to discern this, whether 7X57mm, 7mm-08, or 7X64mm,in just 7mm / .284 alone amongst things I personally own.

Swift, another American company, also finds sufficient market to offer their 7mm-08 projectile in what Swift labels High Grade Ammunition, in 140 grain A-Frame, 150 grain Scirocco II, and 160 grain A-Frame for consumers to choose from. As an aside, 6.5X55mm ammo is also available with both A-Frame and Scirocco II projectiles for consumers.

https://www.swiftbullets.com/pages/high-grade-ammunition

I would have expected someone with such vitriol for American things to use RWS H-Mantel projectiles or 173+ grain FMJ RN projectiles instead of relying on any American projectile manufacturd in the USA to provide acceptable results to begin with, much less over a 20 year period.

I will have Reed's in OK load some 7mm-08 ammo for me with 170 grain Norma Oryx projectiles if someone using 175 grain Nosler Partition 7X57mm ammo would join me for a Texas feral hog hunt to directly compare terminal effects of sufficient projectile stability. Or even 7mm-08 175 grain Speer Grand Slam projectiles if a comparison with a European bonded technology projectile is viewed as less than sporting. Norma lists 170 grain Vulkan load data for a starting point, and Speer lists 7mm-08 data for the 175 grain Grand Slam.

https://www.norma-ammunition.com/us/Ammunition-Academy/Reloading-Data/7mm-08-Remington/

https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/rifle/recipe/?setId=0bda0c82-9532-4e96-8104-4a6922481bf5

I will use my only 7mm-08 firearm with barreled action manufactured in Serbia, with Boyd's stock, Timney trigger, and Sig Sauer scope mounted on EGW scope base.

Mr. Moulds, you have no enmity from me. I find your post factually based and well reasoned. I enjoy such framing regardless of where it originates nor what citizenship it springs forth from.

Mr Zorg
What yourself and everyone else is failing to realize is that American ammunition manufacturers had to take into consideration is that the 7x57 was down loaded to cope with the vast numbers of Remington rolling blocks and 93 Mausers around could not handle pressure. Therefore the 7x57 had to be loaded to be Safe in ALL weapons to avoid law suits. When the 7/08 came out it seemed like he'll on wheels. The 7x57 loaded to the same pressure as the 7/08 are 2 peas in a pod. Regardless to say all 7mms have their own virtues.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It was a rough-and-ready assumption that spin rate of decay was almost negligible thus a a muzzle velocity.

Using 10% rotational velocity decay (at what distance or at what linear velocity as a % of muzzle velocity would be good to know), a 1:10 inches ratio would then be a 1:11 inches twist rate, correct?

Using 1:11 inches ratio and 1800 fps (muzzle but not really) velocity yields the following result using a model with the Miller twist rule, no polymer tip, 175 grain Nosler Partition, 1 atmosphere, 59°F, 50% humidity (reasonable representative South Texas Whitetail season conditions for my use), the progam spits out the following results.

"While theoretically stable, you're on the edge. A faster twist is suggested to ensure a suitable margin of safety."

If we use Wikipedia's value of 2595 fps for a 7mm-08 cartridge, 1800 fps is 69% of muzzle velocity, and using same atmospheric conditions and without introducing variable wind conditions, Fereral's ballistics app shows 1805 fps occurs at 380 yards from the muzzle. Of course, lower muzzle velocities will decay to 1800 fps at a shorter distance from the muzzle and simultaneously a higher % of muzzle velocity. This would bring into play the importance of the basis of 10% rotational velocity decay with respect to distance traveled from the muzzle and / or % of muzzle velocity where the 10% rotational velocity occurs, as well as the + or - bracketing of where the 10% rotational velocity decay occurs.

Of course all sorts of additional modeling requirements and refinements can be put into such models and cranked through, but again, what is the expected influence of such refinements on the actual rsults, and also within the precision of the model itself? Thee is a concept of Significant Figures that should be applied whenever building and using such models, plus the ability to actually repeatedly measure and validate the precision of such refinements.

My model framing is hunting use within "reasonable" - typical? - hunting target rnge applications with the 7mm 175 grain Nosler Partition projectile which has a published G1 BC = 0.387. If the discussion was framed around long range metal silhouette shooting with custom 7mm-08 rifles with barrel twist rates of say 1:8 inches or faster with projectiles such as the Federal 7mm 155 grain Edge TLR projectile the model precision and levels of appropriate refinement would be completely different.

So within the bound of what would be professionally described as my engineering judgement, the rough-and-ready modeling I performed for this example within the framework of use of the model and its results, my approach & results rmainvalid after adding a 10% generalized rotational velocity decay at an undefined distance from muzzle or % of muzzle velocity envelope of applicability of validity a generalized 10% is applicable at. Note the projectile minimum impact expansion velocity is a fixed value independent of muzzle velocity (and therefore distance from muzzle and % muzzle velocity) as well as atmospheric conditions.

If there is additional definition of the envelope where a rotational velocity decay of 10% is applicable, my engineering judgement is this is unlikely to significantly affect modeling predictions within the confines of the model and circumstances used to define the use of the model and its results unless a high sensitivity between rate of rotational velocity decay vs % of muzzle velocity (and by extension distance traveled from muzzle) is shown to radically change the generalized additional refinement basis of 10% rotational velocity decay introduced. (This is what is called a sensitivity analysis in my profession.)

I hope that's helpful not only from a perspective of adding a generalized refinement with undefined sensitivity, as well as directional effects of other refinements in general with respect to model use and framework of any model (as well as the concept of significant figures and by extension significnce of effects). But all of this is absoutely useless if pedantic adherance to the definitin of the trm "muzzle velocity" is insistently slavishly adhered to rather than conceptual use of extrapolating use of the model at any condition other than specifically what the assignned model terms are.

Take it for what itis, or reject it absolutely in the absence of a model based on an empirical data set with many many measurements taken mid-flight at 1800 fps for this specific projectile.

I never said my model extrapolations and results were in any way absolutely accurate to a defined number of significant figures. Instead what I alluded to erroneously thinking it went without explicit statement and demonstration, was my use of such model provides reasonable results in my engineering judgement within the context and framework of use of that model in the absence of me finding a model explicitly based on an empirical data set measured directly at the defined point of 1800 fps mid-flight.

I find the approach and results reasonable for my purposes and applicability of the general regime indicated by the rsultswithn two digits whch is the regime where changes to the regimes occur within the model, as well as a rational basis of how I extended the defined terms of the model I used by not being constrained by pedantic definition of one model input term. YMMV.

Edit: I guess I should add: is there is an element of risk this post will cause you to define yourself as my enemy? I honestly don't know of a better response and demonstration of the rationale of this response, plus rationale of any prior post I've made.

One central concept: if the model result indicates an unstable projectile, or stable projectile, does that mean that at any and every point in time (and distance) after thhe instant that projectile leaves the muzzle, does that really mean the projectile will be unstable, or stable, until forces of resistance of the fluid media the projectile is traveling through bring the projectile velocity to zero in all directions?

I posit if the model result says unstable, the answr is yes. If the model result says stable, the answer is no. Within the framework the model is used. Agree, or disagree?

Mr Zorg
I applaud your research and thoroughness on all you calculations. I like the study of ballistics as well but not to that extent.
What really interests me is I pick up rifle ( what ever one) , point at game, go bang, game falls down = freezer full of meat.
I'm glad you enjoy all those calculations but unfortunately maths and formulas were never my forte.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[WAB]

Your comment is spot on regarding 7x57 factory loads. I’ve always reloaded for mine, but if I didn’t it would certainly be a consideration.