505 Gibbs

[matt85]

I have a Westley Richards and a George Gibbs in 505 Gibbs. I need a red wagon to carry either. Both are beautiful. Think I will just keep shooting my 416 or my 404. Easier on the body.
The worst recoiling rifle I ever shot was a Westley Richards 8 bore double that was stocked a tad too short. My thumb came back and introduced itself to my nose and my nose said "Howdy !" to my ear and snot started running. Tears formed in my eyes. Once was enough for me. It was very accurate as three of us shot the right bbl. standing at 50 yards and all three holes touched. The paper looked as if cut with a laser.

how much does each rifle weigh? in its standard loading the Gibbs shouldn't be too tough on the body. i admit once i started with loads pushing a 570gr bullet at 2300fps it started getting difficult to shoot more then about 10 shots from my 11 pound rifle.

had a friend punch himself in the nose with his thumb firing an 8 bore rifle. gotta watch where you put your thumb and nose with those huge rifles!

-matt

 

[Blackbird]

I have a Westley Richards and a George Gibbs in 505 Gibbs. I need a red wagon to carry either. Both are beautiful. Think I will just keep shooting my 416 or my 404. Easier on the body.
The worst recoiling rifle I ever shot was a Westley Richards 8 bore double that was stocked a tad too short. My thumb came back and introduced itself to my nose and my nose said "Howdy !" to my ear and snot started running. Tears formed in my eyes. Once was enough for me. It was very accurate as three of us shot the right bbl. standing at 50 yards and all three holes touched. The paper looked as if cut with a laser.

 

[colorado]

My 500 Jeffery is 11.25 lbs unloaded without sling on. With my Leupold 1.5-5x, 3 rounds and a sling it weighs 12.5 lbs Not a bit too heavy lol. I do take it elk hunting, but since my heart issue I try not to hunt as hard, but hunt smarter (more glassing less climbing). The rifle weight isn't the issue, it's carrying the elk out.

 

[Dr. Crack]

The only time I've ever hit my finger on the trigger guard is while shooting one of these (475 Linebaugh from Freedom Arms...420 grains at 1350 fps in a 3 pound revolver). Two shots is enough to draw blood.

View attachment 45493

Yepp my BFR revolver in 45/70 with hot 300 grainers is a finger contusion machine lol

My HK 9 for comparison

 

[Dr. Crack]

Hi Pondoro,

RE: Old Fart's & Cannon Recoil,
ActionBob's CZ .505 is of proper weight and has a mercury cylinder in the stock plus, I admittedly load my Jeffery down a bit (it too weighs in properly and has the mercury cylinder / same make & model, other than slightly different yet very comparable cartridge).
Nonetheless, those truly large bore nitro rifles are not for the faint of heart, even around at least 11 pounds and loaded down slightly.
I am however living jumping proof that even a sissy can work up to their heavy recoil level, if you really put your mind to it.

Also - do not start out with a jump from the .270 or .30-06 suddenly to full power .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs, etc.
A .375 H&H is the perfect avenue toward these true "elephant guns" such as the .505 Gibbs and other very hard kickers.
It seems to me that you really do need a .505 there Pondoro because I really did need a .500 Jeffery so, what's fair is fair and you had better get one, just to be fair to yourself, heh heh.

With today's true magnum size CRF actions so widely available, there is no particular advantage to the Jeffery cartridge except that .510 diameter jacketed bullets and molds for pouring various shapes and various weight lead ones, are more common and more diversified than they are in .505 diameter (due to many original .510 to .511 caliber black powder cartridges as well as the popular .500 Nitro Flanged so common now in double rifles, being hand loaded for).
But the Gibbs diameter projectiles are becoming more diversified and more common slowly but surely, thankfully.
The .505 Gibbs is experiencing a huge upswing in popularity lately.

The Jeffery was designed to fit in a somewhat modified military surplus Model 98 Mauser action, (the rebated rim just barely fits onto a fully opened up Model 98 bolt face and the over all length of the loaded round will just fit through the action after machining it open as far as you can go without weakening it too much.
Back in the day, true magnum actions were horiibly expensive, even when you could find one - that's partly what kept the Gibbs in the less than popular category back then.

Because of its full size rim, longer neck and very low chamber pressure (compared to the .500 Jeffery and some other true large bore cartridges), and because of today's relatively affordable / plentiful CZ Magnum Actions, the Gibbs is actually somewhat superior by design.
Its only real flaw is as Matt85 pointed out, the case is actually too large for anything except the old Cordite, Axite and Rifelite bulky stick powders.

So, one must use spacer material when hand loading for it in order to avoid hang-fires (same goes for the .416 Rigby in my personal experiences with it).
And, conversely the .500 Jeffery brass is less voluminous, thereby requiring slightly less of today's powders to reach the desired ballistics.

Blah, blah, blah,
Velo Dog.

Big Velo Dog I have a 505 Gibbs MRC on layaway. I have acquired dies, brass, powder, some bullets as such and have data from various manuals and blogs, but some say filler, and some just don’t even say. Horandy recs here don't mention it. Can you share some data and at what point you use filler? Filler type would be Dacron? Sorry if these are old and dumb Qs I’m a greenstick on this cartridge.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Not necessarily. It actually gets me in the back! LOL I have the two guns in it, a CZ that was on the shelf, used, at one of the bigger gun shops and called out to me. This was right after I got reading @matt85 postings of this cartridge. Heck I did not even know it existed! The gun was the best looking CZ I've ever seen and had all the CZ Custom shop upgrades except jeweled bolt. So made a deal and bought it and at that time Corbon had ammo on sale for only $5/round so took what I could get (not enough).

I have taken this gun hunting and did shoot my second buffalo with it. The first was with my M70 416 rem mag and took 6 shots before he was done. The first going just behind the shoulder and getting a reaction like a mosquito bite!

Seriously, nothing wrong with a 416 for anything walking the Earth. But I wanted to hunt with the 505!

The buffalo I took with it was in a herd and a real old boy all smoothed off and caked in mud. The herd was moving off and when he finally cleared enough for a shot, he was quartering away looking over his left shoulder back towards us. You should avoid a left side quartering away shot on a ruminant because that is where the barrel sized rumen sits and is typically full of a bullet stopping matt of forages and rumen fluid!

Having the 505 loaded with Corbon DPX bullets, which are TSX's.. I took the shot and the bullet traveled through about 8-10 inches of rumen and make a huge channel well up into the front of the chest cavity. By the time we made our way over to him he was laying up against a tree giving his death bellow... My wife was with and hates any death sounds, and is was a buffalo! So I put another through the chest, and then a 3rd one because it looked like he moved and it was time for lunch, but he was dead and it was just his head flopping down, and my blood was up and there was the third cartridge in the gun anyway! Perfect mushrooms, I'll re-post the picture of 6.5 mm, the 375 H&H Trophy Bonded Bear Claw out of my lion, and the 505 from the buffalo. That wound channel was massive and had a couple feet of green slime carried through the chest. The first shot killed him.

Now, I have a customized Ruger RSM that started life as a 416 Rigby and was converted into a 505 Gibbs.. after all it would be a terrible sin to convert any Rigby into anything less! Well that think does kick like a mule! But it does not have a scope on it and as it was re-bored, it is lighter than the gun in a Rigby or Lott.

The CZ in a 505 (or 500 Jeffrey) comes standard with a mercury tube recoil reducer in the stock. And it has a big stock that fills your hands and a nice check piece I can get my head down onto firmly, even with the Trijicon 1-4x24 30mm scope I have on it. It is really a nice gun to shoot! It got my attention first time I shot it without a scope but not all that much more so than my M70 416 (which is a light gun).

I took seriously the detailed instruction from @matt85 on how to shoot these big bores and it works for me. No cheek or shoulder slap and never any bruises. Like I said earlier, it makes my back ache. It rocks my whole body and I have 3 smashed vertebrae so that acts up after a few shots. When I shot that buffalo there was zero felt recoil... In fact a few days later when I shot a lion with my M70 375, there was not even a report from the gun
View attachment 45295
View attachment 45296
View attachment 45297

Below is the 505 Gibbs on both sides, with 223, 30-06, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott in between. The TSX on the right is the same as the one used on the buff. A solid on the left.

View attachment 45298

After seeing this, I feel like I need a 505 Gibbs!

 

[Dr Ray]

After seeing this, I feel like I need a 505 Gibbs!

Of course. I didn’t think it was a question. Rather it was a statement.
Stout recoil!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Of course. I didn’t think it was a question. Rather it was a statement.
Stout recoil!

I don't mind stout recoil, it's part of the fun!

 

[grand veneur]

After seeing this, I feel like I need a 505 Gibbs!

Hobby and desire to have something special always plays a role so that I don't like to advise anyone.

IMHO , If you want to use a 50 caliber cartridge , you should rather consider taking the cartridge 500 Jeffery.

The cartridge 505 Gibbs is a very good cartridge in terms of its performance and also pleasant to shoot , but it is a large cartridge with many disadvantages. Making rifles for it has never been easy , nowadays it may not be the main problem , but reloading creates problems because of the large amounts of powder that still do not fill the case and therefore may be the need for a filler. The cartridge 500 Jeffery is much less of problems.

This is my opinion. I have been using for hunting in Africa an rifle caliber 500 Schüler for years and with an old rifle caliber 505 Gibbs of a well-known one I have never hunted but shot a couple of times. That's why I allow myself to compare the two.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Hobby and desire to have something special always plays a role so that I don't like to advise anyone.

IMHO , If you want to use a 50 caliber cartridge , you should rather consider taking the cartridge 500 Jeffery.

The cartridge 505 Gibbs is a very good cartridge in terms of its performance and also pleasant to shoot , but it is a large cartridge with many disadvantages. Making rifles for it has never been easy , nowadays it may not be the main problem , but reloading creates problems because of the large amounts of powder that still do not fill the case and therefore may be the need for a filler. The cartridge 500 Jeffery is much less of problems.

This is my opinion. I have been using for hunting in Africa an rifle caliber 500 Schüler for years and with an old rifle caliber 505 Gibbs of a well-known one I have never hunted but shot a couple of times. That's why I allow myself to compare the two.

So you are a 500 Jeffery man, got it.

 

[grand veneur]

I don't advise against the 505 Gibbs cartridge. At the beginning I also thought about it what I will have built , but the cartridge 500 Jeffery and the rifle for it corresponded better into my concept of an DG rifle , and I don't regret it.

 

[Velo Dog]

View attachment 333857


Big Velo Dog I have a 505 Gibbs MRC on layaway. I have acquired dies, brass, powder, some bullets as such and have data from various manuals and blogs, but some say filler, and some just don’t even say. Horandy recs here don't mention it. Can you share some data and at what point you use filler? Filler type would be Dacron? Sorry if these are old and dumb Qs I’m a greenstick on this cartridge.

Hello Dr. Crack,

“Big” Velo Dog ? ......
Well anyway, ... whatever.

Ok so, I apologize for any confusion and regrettably, I’ve never owned nor hand loaded cartridges for any rifle chambered in the .5o5 Gibbs caliber.
Therefore, I cannot share any load data for same.

However, I do have some experience loading other large capacity cartridges that, require a filler material / spacer, in order to avoid hang fires.
My first experience with this was with the .450 No2 NE double, shown in my avatar.
I began by using tufts of cotton, pressed into the case mouth, on top of the powder charge, by means of a flat ended (not sharpened) pencil.

No hang fires but, I was worried about starting bush fires in the part of Africa where I was booked to hunt back then.
This was because, I could see a trail of scorched cotton, fluttering toward the ground, after each shot.
Next and therefore, I followed fellow Alaskan / fellow forum member, Cal Pappas’s advice and tried Kapok/Dakron (aka: pillow stuffing).

Cal has more experience loading for and hunting big game with the vintage/classic “African cartridges” than, most people, world wide.
He is literally a walking encyclopedia of information on this topic.
Therefore, it was no surprise that, this filler material was fully consumed each time a shot was fired, leaving no scorched material fluttering toward the ground, no surprise at all.

However, it was like I would imagine things might be, trying to push a large, angry octopus into a small diameter pipe.
Therefore, I finally settled on using typical foam ear plugs, as my over-the-powder spacer.
They work as if specifically designed for the job.
(I didn’t even need the pencil).
Sadly, I had to sell the big double to help pay off my buffalo hunt, oye vey but not sorry, because I was therefore able to actually hunt African buffalo.

Meanwhile today, I use “store bought”, size .50 caliber fiber wads for spacers, in my .500 Jeffery.
These are sold pretty much everywhere that muzzle loading supplies are available.
In my .416 Rigby, again I use foam earplugs as my spacers.
They work perfectly.

In closing, yours truly is looking forward to your posting more info, in regards to your new .505 Gibbs rifle.
It is by reputation, an incredible dangerous game cartridge and I have always liked the huge Gibbs caliber.
Blah, blah, blah,...rant over.

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[Dr. Crack]

Hello Dr. Crack,

“Big” Velo Dog ? ......
Well anyway, ... whatever.

Ok so, I apologize for any confusion and regrettably, I’ve never owned nor hand loaded cartridges for any rifle chambered in the .5o5 Gibbs caliber.
Therefore, I cannot share any load data for same.

However, I do have some experience loading other large capacity cartridges that, require a filler material / spacer, in order to avoid hang fires.
My first experience with this was with the .450 No2 NE double, shown in my avatar.
I began by using tufts of cotton, pressed into the case mouth, on top of the powder charge, by means of a flat ended (not sharpened) pencil.

No hang fires but, I was worried about starting bush fires in the part of Africa where I was booked to hunt back then.
This was because, I could see a trail of scorched cotton, fluttering toward the ground, after each shot.
Next and therefore, I followed fellow Alaskan / fellow forum member, Cal Pappas’s advice and tried Kapok/Dakron (aka: pillow stuffing).

Cal has more experience loading for and hunting big game with the vintage/classic “African cartridges” than, most people, world wide.
He is literally a walking encyclopedia of information on this topic.
Therefore, it was no surprise that, this filler material was fully consumed each time a shot was fired, leaving no scorched material fluttering toward the ground, no surprise at all.

However, it was like I would imagine things might be, trying to push a large, angry octopus into a small diameter pipe.
Therefore, I finally settled on using typical foam ear plugs, as my over-the-powder spacer.
They work as if specifically designed for the job.
(I didn’t even need the pencil).
Sadly, I had to sell the big double to help pay off my buffalo hunt, oye vey but not sorry, because I was therefore able to actually hunt African buffalo.

Meanwhile today, I use “store bought”, size .50 caliber fiber wads for spacers, in my .500 Jeffery.
These are sold pretty much everywhere that muzzle loading supplies are available.
In my .416 Rigby, again I use foam earplugs as my spacers.
They work perfectly.

In closing, yours truly is looking forward to your posting more info, in regards to your new .505 Gibbs rifle.
It is by reputation, an incredible dangerous game cartridge and I have always liked the huge Gibbs caliber.
Blah, blah, blah,...rant over.

Best regards,
Velo Dog.

Sorry for the “Big” and no disrespect meant sir. Your reply is way helpful and I appreciate the great advice

 

[Dr. Crack]

I think the fact that Norma started loading it secured its come back...

Norma is one of the high quality ammo makers , their brass is probably the best in the world..

Not sure I would shoot it with 600 grainers (that Norma loads)....I think I would stick to the original Kynoch load, ie plenty horsepower and not that severe recoil.

I got a few starter boxes of Nosler 505s 10 each to a box topped with a 570 grain SP rated at 2200 fps. 108.00 each box. ordered 55 round of norma brass 3.42 each and some Woodleigh 600 grainers and some Hornady 525s. RCBS dies 3 (roll crimp die incl).

 

[Dr. Crack]

Not necessarily. It actually gets me in the back! LOL I have the two guns in it, a CZ that was on the shelf, used, at one of the bigger gun shops and called out to me. This was right after I got reading @matt85 postings of this cartridge. Heck I did not even know it existed! The gun was the best looking CZ I've ever seen and had all the CZ Custom shop upgrades except jeweled bolt. So made a deal and bought it and at that time Corbon had ammo on sale for only $5/round so took what I could get (not enough).

I have taken this gun hunting and did shoot my second buffalo with it. The first was with my M70 416 rem mag and took 6 shots before he was done. The first going just behind the shoulder and getting a reaction like a mosquito bite!

Seriously, nothing wrong with a 416 for anything walking the Earth. But I wanted to hunt with the 505!

The buffalo I took with it was in a herd and a real old boy all smoothed off and caked in mud. The herd was moving off and when he finally cleared enough for a shot, he was quartering away looking over his left shoulder back towards us. You should avoid a left side quartering away shot on a ruminant because that is where the barrel sized rumen sits and is typically full of a bullet stopping matt of forages and rumen fluid!

Having the 505 loaded with Corbon DPX bullets, which are TSX's.. I took the shot and the bullet traveled through about 8-10 inches of rumen and make a huge channel well up into the front of the chest cavity. By the time we made our way over to him he was laying up against a tree giving his death bellow... My wife was with and hates any death sounds, and is was a buffalo! So I put another through the chest, and then a 3rd one because it looked like he moved and it was time for lunch, but he was dead and it was just his head flopping down, and my blood was up and there was the third cartridge in the gun anyway! Perfect mushrooms, I'll re-post the picture of 6.5 mm, the 375 H&H Trophy Bonded Bear Claw out of my lion, and the 505 from the buffalo. That wound channel was massive and had a couple feet of green slime carried through the chest. The first shot killed him.

Now, I have a customized Ruger RSM that started life as a 416 Rigby and was converted into a 505 Gibbs.. after all it would be a terrible sin to convert any Rigby into anything less! Well that think does kick like a mule! But it does not have a scope on it and as it was re-bored, it is lighter than the gun in a Rigby or Lott.

The CZ in a 505 (or 500 Jeffrey) comes standard with a mercury tube recoil reducer in the stock. And it has a big stock that fills your hands and a nice check piece I can get my head down onto firmly, even with the Trijicon 1-4x24 30mm scope I have on it. It is really a nice gun to shoot! It got my attention first time I shot it without a scope but not all that much more so than my M70 416 (which is a light gun).

I took seriously the detailed instruction from @matt85 on how to shoot these big bores and it works for me. No cheek or shoulder slap and never any bruises. Like I said earlier, it makes my back ache. It rocks my whole body and I have 3 smashed vertebrae so that acts up after a few shots. When I shot that buffalo there was zero felt recoil... In fact a few days later when I shot a lion with my M70 375, there was not even a report from the gun
View attachment 45295
View attachment 45296
View attachment 45297

Below is the 505 Gibbs on both sides, with 223, 30-06, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott in between. The TSX on the right is the same as the one used on the buff. A solid on the left.

View attachment 45298

Not necessarily. It actually gets me in the back! LOL I have the two guns in it, a CZ that was on the shelf, used, at one of the bigger gun shops and called out to me. This was right after I got reading @matt85 postings of this cartridge. Heck I did not even know it existed! The gun was the best looking CZ I've ever seen and had all the CZ Custom shop upgrades except jeweled bolt. So made a deal and bought it and at that time Corbon had ammo on sale for only $5/round so took what I could get (not enough).

I have taken this gun hunting and did shoot my second buffalo with it. The first was with my M70 416 rem mag and took 6 shots before he was done. The first going just behind the shoulder and getting a reaction like a mosquito bite!

Seriously, nothing wrong with a 416 for anything walking the Earth. But I wanted to hunt with the 505!

The buffalo I took with it was in a herd and a real old boy all smoothed off and caked in mud. The herd was moving off and when he finally cleared enough for a shot, he was quartering away looking over his left shoulder back towards us. You should avoid a left side quartering away shot on a ruminant because that is where the barrel sized rumen sits and is typically full of a bullet stopping matt of forages and rumen fluid!

Having the 505 loaded with Corbon DPX bullets, which are TSX's.. I took the shot and the bullet traveled through about 8-10 inches of rumen and make a huge channel well up into the front of the chest cavity. By the time we made our way over to him he was laying up against a tree giving his death bellow... My wife was with and hates any death sounds, and is was a buffalo! So I put another through the chest, and then a 3rd one because it looked like he moved and it was time for lunch, but he was dead and it was just his head flopping down, and my blood was up and there was the third cartridge in the gun anyway! Perfect mushrooms, I'll re-post the picture of 6.5 mm, the 375 H&H Trophy Bonded Bear Claw out of my lion, and the 505 from the buffalo. That wound channel was massive and had a couple feet of green slime carried through the chest. The first shot killed him.

Now, I have a customized Ruger RSM that started life as a 416 Rigby and was converted into a 505 Gibbs.. after all it would be a terrible sin to convert any Rigby into anything less! Well that think does kick like a mule! But it does not have a scope on it and as it was re-bored, it is lighter than the gun in a Rigby or Lott.

The CZ in a 505 (or 500 Jeffrey) comes standard with a mercury tube recoil reducer in the stock. And it has a big stock that fills your hands and a nice check piece I can get my head down onto firmly, even with the Trijicon 1-4x24 30mm scope I have on it. It is really a nice gun to shoot! It got my attention first time I shot it without a scope but not all that much more so than my M70 416 (which is a light gun).

I took seriously the detailed instruction from @matt85 on how to shoot these big bores and it works for me. No cheek or shoulder slap and never any bruises. Like I said earlier, it makes my back ache. It rocks my whole body and I have 3 smashed vertebrae so that acts up after a few shots. When I shot that buffalo there was zero felt recoil... In fact a few days later when I shot a lion with my M70 375, there was not even a report from the gun
View attachment 45295
View attachment 45296
View attachment 45297

Below is the 505 Gibbs on both sides, with 223, 30-06, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott in between. The TSX on the right is the same as the one used on the buff. A solid on the left.

View attachment 45298

Dear ActionBob

As I wait for my new 505 Gibbs I was wondering what kind of reload life For a piece of brass I can expect from hand-loading the 505 Gibbs with a common offering of 525 gr. at 22-2300 fps. I will be using Norma cases

 

[Pondoro]

Crack, I recently shot a CZ550 in .505 Gibbs at the Norma factory with Norma´s PH ammo, ie 600 grain Woodleigh Solid at 2100fps.

I found it amazingly easy to shoot, the felt recoil was quite human..no big jerk...I really think Norma found the right recipe for this round..

 

[Velo Dog]

Sorry for the “Big” and no disrespect meant sir. Your reply is way helpful and I appreciate the great advice

No worries Dr. Crack,

I felt no disrespect but was sort of puzzled as to what it meant, head scratch, head scratch.
Meanwhile, I look forward to reading up on how things go with your .505, as you get it all going.

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[Dr. Crack]

Crack, I recently shot a CZ550 in .505 Gibbs at the Norma factory with Norma´s PH ammo, ie 600 grain Woodleigh Solid at 2100fps.

I found it amazingly easy to shoot, the felt recoil was quite human..no big jerk...I really think Norma found the right recipe for this round..

Awesome to know Pondoro! Thank you !

 

[Dr. Crack]

No worries Dr. Crack,

I felt no disrespect but was sort of puzzled as to what it meant, head scratch, head scratch.
Meanwhile, I look forward to reading up on how things go with your .505, as you get it all going.

Cheers,
Paul.

I was calling you The Big Dog cause of Velo Dog lol! Absolutely, sir you will be the first to know when it comes in!!

 

[Velo Dog]

I was calling you The Big Dog cause of Velo Dog lol! Absolutely, sir you will be the first to know when it comes in!!

Ah !
Ok now I get it, however slow I was to catch on.
For my thick skull I apologize.
Anywhooo, I would bet a cold pitcher of barley, hops, yeast and water that, you will be tickled pink with your new rifle.