505 Gibbs

[matt85]

@colorado i plan to load my 505 Gibbs to your 500 jeffery levels. my hope is to use a 570gr Swift A-frame at 2250-2300fps depending on accuracy and my own ability to deal with the recoil.

my Gibbs weighs around 11 pounds 5 ounces unloaded with a red dot optic. what does your 500 Jeffery weigh with its scope?

-matt

 

[colorado]

Matt, I think a 570g bullet at 2150 fps will kill/anchor just about anything. My 500 Jeffery weighs 12 lbs with scope, (two 12 oz mercury recoil reducers in the stock). I had them but in mainly for balance. I like a rifle with a lively feel with the balance point in the middle of the magazine. A lot of folks like the rifle to balance further forward. If my 2300 fps hand load wasn't so damn accurate I would back off to 2150 fps myself. I'm sure you'll be fine with the recoil at either speed, just either use a lead sled or don't shoot much from the bench. Offhand the recoil is mild.

 

[matt85]

my logic behind 2300fps is that the A-frame doesnt like to expand as quickly or as much as id like at impact velocities below 2150fps. with a muzzle velocity of 2300fps the impact velocity at 50 yards is around 2150fps. hopefully i shoot my buffalo closer then 50 yards but it cant hurt to be prepared.

if im going to use a muzzle velocity of 2100-2150 id use a 600gr Woodliegh sp.

-matt

 

[colorado]

Makes sense. I'm using the 570g TSX and even though I admit to having doubts the TSX would open up reliably, after taking a cow elk with it at 225 yards, I have no doubts. I tend to prefer A-Frames though, and have some I should load up and try.

 

[matt85]

sadly the only weight Barnes offers for the .505" diameter is 525gr. if they offered a 570gr or 600gr id be all over it! ive seen Barnes perform very well time and time again. i use the 300gr TSX in my 416 RM for PG.

even at 2300fps id say the 570gr A-frame is limited to 50 yards for ideal performance. its not that the bullet doesnt expand at slower impact speeds its just you dont get that big beautiful mushroom. if i was going to shoot something further away id use the 525gr TSX.

-matt

 

[colorado]

Matt, not trying to be disagreeable, but I think the A-Frame would still expand at 1800 fps impact velocity. At 2300 fps muzzle velocity your game would have to be at 300 yards to drop that low. Remember, you're shooting a .505 caliber bullet with a large frontal area. I'd try it on a boar hunt, or a mule deer hunt and make sure you're shot is at 100 yards or more. If it expands on them, it sure as hell will expand on a cape buffalo. I would be much more concerned about a TSX not expanding, but that's just me an old retro kind of guy

 

[matt85]

the TSX is much more likely to fully expand then the A-frame due to how HP bullets work. with a HP you either get full expansion or no expansion, there really isnt a middle ground. if any fluids make it into the hollow cavity then the HP will open explosively in just an inch or two of flesh regardless of speed. there is a reason most anti-personal ammunition uses HP bullets, people aren't very thick.

as for the A-frame, i never said it wouldn't expand at lower speeds. i just said it wouldn't expand as much as i would like or as fast as i would like. i want my SP bullet to be fully expanded and maybe even shortened a little before it hits vital organs. will it do this at 2000fps? not according to the Swift diagrams or even their staff (i spoke to them over the phone). the A-frame "might" be fully expanded by the time it stops in the far end of the animal but any wound past the vitals is just icing on the cake rather then being truly important.

again, im not saying you need to push the 505 Gibbs cartridge to 2300fps. im just saying for best performance from a Swift A-frame you should try to get a little more velocity. the softer 600gr Woodleigh SP bullet would likely perform much better at 2150fps then the tough 570gr A-frame. the reason for picking the A-frame is that its a much better choice for shots at bad angles and shots that need to punch threw heavy bone. Doctari told me he personally did not like the 600gr Woodleigh sp because hes has them fail on buffalo's shoulder bones. id personally still use the 600gr Woodleigh but id try to avoid the shoulder bone.

-matt

 

[colorado]

good points all Matt. I'm going to load up some 570g A-Frames that have been gathering dust on my bench.

Have a good weekend.

 

[matt85]

just got back from the range where i tried some of the loads i was talking about.

-570gr A-frame over 150gr of RL-33: two loads over the chronograph = 2189fps and 2147fps. accuracy was bad to the point of being unusable.
-570gr A-frame over 133gr of RL-25: two loads over the chronograph = 2259fps and 2306fps. accuracy wasn't great but showed a great deal of promise.
-525gr TSX over 143gr of RL-25: three loads over the chronograph = 2157fps, 2200fps, and 2096fps. accuracy wasn't great but would be useable if the velocity wasn't so slow.
-525gr TSX over 144.5gr of RL25: two loads over the chronograph = 2203fps and 2207fps. accuracy wasnt great but shows promise however its still too slow.
-600gr cast bullet over 115gr of RL-25: accuracy wasn't very good.
-600gr cast bullet over 114gr of IMR 7828: accuracy was decent but was better at higher speeds. i think 114.5gr will give the best results.

i need to find a powder thats slower then RL-25 but faster then RL-33 for the 570gr bullet. i think RL-25 is just a little too fast hence the low powder change buy unstable high velocity.

also, i need a new filler material! the pillow stuffing ive been using is burning and leaving crap in my chamber which not onley smells bad but is causing cases to stick a little. any suggestions on a good filler material?

-matt

 

[Amon458]

Cut out little pieces of card stock paper like from a 12 pack to the right size or if you feel a bit lazy you can just crumble up some paper and pack it in there thats what is used alot when reloading the 577 snyder.

 

[matt85]

i dont think either of those plans would work very well because of the bottle neck.

-matt

 

[Amon458]

My bad forgot the gibbs was a bottle neck

 

[colorado]

Matt, here are some loads from the book "Any Shot You Want" for the 505 Gibbs. I've good luck with the load data in this book for my 500 Jeffery.

For the 505 Gibbs he lists:

525g A-Square Dead Tough Soft Point

RL22 133g 2629 fps
RL 22 136g 2328 fps

Both of these loads are low pressure. You might want to post to Doctari on AR he's been a 505 Gibbs shooter and has killed lots of game in his role as a PH with the 505. An awesome and legendary PH

 

[Wouter Roets]

Colorado

That 133gr load speed seems a little suspect? Believe it's a typo.

Regards
Wouter

 

[matt85]

thanks @colorado

if i cant get RL-25 to work ill give RL-22 a try.

-matt

 

[colorado]

Colorado

That 133gr load speed seems a little suspect? Believe it's a typo.

Regards
Wouter

I just checked, but I have never used it, it's on page 592 of the A-Square book "Any Shot You Want". I use the load range in the 500 Jeffery section on page 599. So Matt please do as Wouter says and verify it before trying it as I am sure you would do.

I use Jamison cases, Federal 215 primers, 570g TSX, 103g H4895 for 2300 fps out of the 24" barrel on my CZ 550. All load should be worked up to with caution. In the case of these very large cases light loads should be loaded with caution also due to the possibility of hang fires.

 

[matt85]

<<< not new to hand loading.

I don't usually take loads at face value and always perform tests before taking a big plunge (I recommend all people do this). one thing I do like about the 505 Gibbs cartridge is due to its huge capacity the odds of an overpressure load in a modern rifle with most slow burning powders is pretty low as long as your not stupid about it. now the recoil might knock you on your butt... but at least your gun will be fine!

I can tell you the recoil of the 570gr bullet over 133gr of RL-25 is pretty heavy from an 11 pound rifle! im betting I could fire about 12 of those before my body calls "mercy" and I need to move on to smaller guns for the day. ill admit one advantage of the 500 Jeffery is the smaller case capacity. it takes less powder to achieve the same results which means less recoil.

-matt

 

[Wouter Roets]

Colorado

You give the speed for the 133gr load at 2626ft/sec and the 136gr load at 2328ft/sec. It should probably read 2229ft/sec? As I said probably only a typo.

Regards
Wouter

 

[colorado]

Colorado

You give the speed for the 133gr load at 2626ft/sec and the 136gr load at 2328ft/sec. It should probably read 2229ft/sec? As I said probably only a typo.

Regards
Wouter

Absolutely, good catch sorry. Old eyes, dim light

 

[Blackbird]

I have a Westley Richards and a George Gibbs in 505 Gibbs. I need a red wagon to carry either. Both are beautiful. Think I will just keep shooting my 416 or my 404. Easier on the body.
The worst recoiling rifle I ever shot was a Westley Richards 8 bore double that was stocked a tad too short. My thumb came back and introduced itself to my nose and my nose said "Howdy !" to my ear and snot started running. Tears formed in my eyes. Once was enough for me. It was very accurate as three of us shot the right bbl. standing at 50 yards and all three holes touched. The paper looked as if cut with a laser.