.458 Winchester Magnum too much gun?

[CoElkHunter]

Excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question or I'm interpreting wrong. This seems to imply a .458 wouldnt be scoped, why is that? Recoil issues with optics or are they just traditionally used at closer range so magnification isnt needed? Or not used to avoid getting a scope to the forehead (I've never been able to shoot one)?

There really are no stupid or silly questions that one can’t ask on this forum. Believe me, I’ve asked and continue to ask many, many stupid/ignorant questions about many things here on AH. Just because I do not know. Bruce Moulds set me straight on that. He stated, “The only stupid questions are the ones not asked”. And, “that’s how we all learn, and it’s fun too”.
Anyway, I have a CZ .458 WM with open sights. Haven’t hunted with it yet, but I enjoy the open sights shooting at 50 meters.

 

[Von S.]

Mike,

My 5'2" 115 pound wife and a 5'1" miniature male friend have both shot the hell out of my 458 scoped mauser that I put together from parts I had laying around years ago and never got bumped ny the scope and it is light.

 

[Forrest Halley]

And because of those design flaws in the Grand they could not top it off with more rounds, they had to shoot until it was empty

Topped off no, but the partial clip can be ejected via the mysterious button on the left hand side of the receiver and replaced with a full clip. The world needs to know what this button does!

I get Africa Does Not Win Again (ADNWA) but ALNTT you will have to help me out.

At Least Not This Time

 

[IvW]

Craig Boddington in his recently released book entitled Buffalo II stated that the .45 caliber big bore rifles are not required for hunting buffalo.
In his opinion, the .375 H & H Magnum is a more suitable choice while the .416's (Remington, Ruger, Rigby) are even better yet. Would you hunt a cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum bolt action rifle or is it really too much gun for the task?

The .400's are perfect Buffalo cartridges, but the .375's by far kill the most every year....

Personally I would not hunt anything with a 458WM...

 

[BeeMaa]

The .400's are perfect Buffalo cartridges, but the .375's by far kill the most every year....

Personally I would not hunt anything with a 458WM...

A few things I've learned about @IvW.
Double gun cartridges need to have a flange (not a belt) for reliable extraction.
Bolt action cartridges are not to be belted for reliable feeding.

Good advice.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

I haven't had the opportunity to hit Africa but my thoughts are along this line. As long as it is legal to use, you have a rifle you like, and it is loaded with an appropriate projectile then use it. A .458 WM is just fine (from all I can glean from others) for buffalo. Is it necessary? No, but then again a lot of critters are taken down with "too much gun". When talking about a critter that can kill you, is there such a thing?

 

[dougfinn]

Nothing is “too much gun” if you tailor the loads to suit the game. I have a .458 that I’ve developed a couple of nice loads with 350 gr. bullets for brush hunting and am working on a load for my 450/400 double for hunting black tail deer locally. It’s a shame to never use a hunting rifle for hunting. Get out there and enjoy those big bores.

 

[grand veneur]

It’s a shame to never use a hunting rifle for hunting. Get out there and enjoy those big bores.

If it were always that easy !

You only need to read some comments and opinions on the forum and in papers , including comments coming from some PH in Africa , about big bore rifles used by clients for big game hunting , to think about whether you should really take such rifle with you or not.

In view of some opinions , some will consider whether , like all other clients , they should not prefer to take a rifle in an average caliber that is suitable for DG rather than to be viewed as something else or even suspicious. How bigger the caliber , even if you master it well , and how much it is sometimes the reason for some , other hunters or PH , if something went wrong.

If you hunt alone it's not a problem , but in an organization you sometimes have to adapt to the circumstances and don't go too much out of line.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Just as the powder was starting to clump...along came a revival.

 

[grand veneur]

Just as the powder was starting to clump...along came a revival.

This happened often in the cartridge 458 Win Mag in its early days...almost led to its decline , but like the topic , she was saved at the last moment.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Did he actually say too much gun? Or was he more trying to say a cartridge like the 458WM is actually not needed and the 416's and 375's do the job just fine?
So far all my buffalo hunting has been done with a 375H&H for a few reasons, I find it easy to shoot and I shoot it well, I like the versatility of the 375H&H and IMO it has proven to be more than adequate for the job. Having said that I feel a bigger cartridge could do the job even better, so why not? I just purchased a 458 Lott.

 

[Timbo]

Craig Boddington in his recently released book entitled Buffalo II stated that the .45 caliber big bore rifles are not required for hunting buffalo.
In his opinion, the .375 H & H Magnum is a more suitable choice while the .416's (Remington, Ruger, Rigby) are even better yet. Would you hunt a cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum bolt action rifle or is it really too much gun for the task?

Nope!! I find it's perfect for me. I have a Ken Davis' custom stocked, bolt action Interarms Mauser Mk.X with a fixed 4x Weaver scope on Weaver rings. I reload 72gr of AR2206H powder, driving either of Woodleighs 500gr RNSN or FMJs (same BC) to give clover leaf groups at 75yds.

All the DG I've taken have been 1-shot kills. Perfect!!

 

[grand veneur]

I also belong to the old school and remain true to caliber 458.

 

[Forrest Halley]

The old school of .458 is the .450NE. The .458WM is more like middle school. The Lott is new school, until Ruger figures out something .5 inches shorter and 400 fps faster out of a 21" barrel...

 

[sestoppelman]

More Boddington BS.
Of course a .458 Win Mag is not required. Some folks use handguns and others use bow and arrow. Some use 500NE or 600 NE.
Man is not even required to hunt buffalo.
But if we do it, we have our say on the tools we use Except in some backward countries that are behind the times on modern firearm and ammunition.

Rant over.

And that is exactly what he said in the book, "the .45 calibers are not necessary". He didn't say it was too much or over gunned or anything else silly like that. His argument was simply that calibers over the .40 somethings are adequate as are the .375's and even the 9.3's in some cases. Calling this more "Boddington BS" is over stating it by just a tad I think. I have the book and read it and went back to his chapter of cartridges for buffalo and he list lots of possible choices.
Lets face it guys, some here don't like the guy, fine so be it. But he has shot and seen shot as many buffalo as many PH's have and certainly more than most if not all the members on AH excluding PH's of broad experience. He does know of what he writes.

 

[wesheltonj]

Personally, anything over 375 is too much gun for me. Now, if you are looking for a reason to purchase said gun, then of course you need it.

 

[grand veneur]

And that is exactly what he said in the book, "the .45 calibers are not necessary". He didn't say it was too much or over gunned or anything else silly like that. His argument was simply that calibers over the .40 somethings are adequate as are the .375's and even the 9.3's in some cases. Calling this more "Boddington BS" is over stating it by just a tad I think. I have the book and read it and went back to his chapter of cartridges for buffalo and he list lots of possible choices.
Lets face it guys, some here don't like the guy, fine so be it. But he has shot and seen shot as many buffalo as many PH's have and certainly more than most if not all the members on AH excluding PH's of broad experience. He does know of what he writes.

I like to read the articles from CB , nevertheless one should not forget that much is time-related.

Nowadays it's right that the caliber 416 represents an optimum when it comes to a DG rifle for a hunter who don't need to do a backup , but it was not always so. Anyone who was looking for such a rifle more than 40 years ago , and wanted more than a rifle caliber 375 H & H Magnum , had to take one caliber 458. A rifle caliber 458 Win Mag or even 460 Weatherby Magnum was found rather than a rifle caliber 416 Rigby or 404 Jeffery. DR were just coming back but only for the common cartridges from back then. The others cartridges were no longer available or did not yet exist. There was no ammunition for a lot of classic rifles especially caliber 416 Rigby. All of this was a reason why cartridges like the 458 Win Mag , or even 460WM to a lesser extent , could come well. If only there had been all the large bore cartridges available to us today , the cartridges caliber 458 may be would not use that often nowadays. The future will teach us.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Craig Boddington in his recently released book entitled Buffalo II stated that the .45 caliber big bore rifles are not required for hunting buffalo.
In his opinion, the .375 H & H Magnum is a more suitable choice while the .416's (Remington, Ruger, Rigby) are even better yet. Would you hunt a cape buffalo with a .458 Winchester Magnum bolt action rifle or is it really too much gun for the task?

I killed a buffalo with my .458 WM, and no it wasn't too much gun. When I go back I will use it again. Now having said that I would use a .375 if I had one as it's somewhat more versatile and still adequate for buffalo. Now assuming that you are going to take another rifle for plains game why not take a .458 for buffalo if you want?

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Shoot what you can handle accuracy and recoil wise. Caliber really isn't that critical.

Until people start shooting buffalo with a .243 or some other marginal caliber which usually results in somebody getting hurt. Bullet placement is the most important thing but caliber and bullet construction shouldn't be disregarded.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Until people start shooting buffalo with a .243 or some other marginal caliber which usually results in somebody getting hurt. Bullet placement is the most important thing but caliber and bullet construction shouldn't be disregarded.

Well Said!