.458 Winchester Magnum too much gun?

[Kawshik Rahman]

Kwashik............I like that water buffalo better than any I have ever seen! What a great trophy. Thanks for posting........................Bill

Bill
Thank you so much for your kind words and support. I must admit . The client who secured that water buffalo , was not my client , but the client of my dearly deceased fellow Shikari , Clay Quiah.
I only had a Shikar license to guide clients in Darjeeling , where there is only Gaur bison , but no water buffaloes . Clay guided this client , in another part of India .

 

[Ed Lally]

375 (which I have) vs 458 (I have a Lott) Here is my story and my opinion: I am 74 and going on my fourth annual Safari to Africa next year, the first three being to RSA for PG. Unfortunately, the Africa hunting (and touring and mission) virus did not infect me until I was in my 70's, but fortunately, it infected my wife at least as badly as she repeatedly asks "Why do we love Africa so much?" In 2020 we will be going to Mozambique for Cape Buffalo (and tour and some mission work) and only God knows if I'll get a fifth Safari. Accordingly, I want this hunt to be as perfect and as memorable as possible. I am staying in shape by continuing to heat our home with firewood I cut and split myself (8 cords a year) and walking 14,000 to 18,000 steps a day, usually while carrying a load. I want to be in shape to hunt buffalo, not just shoot buffalo. To me a buffalo hunt is a hunt in foot, following spoor and getting in close with a double rifle, then making an accurate first shot followed by a second and reloading as quickly as practiced. Red Leg likes his R8 Professional in .375 and I love mine, which I used last year on everything from Blue Wildebeest to Zebra, but for a Cape Buffalo, for me at least, it is a nice Krieghoff double in 470NE.

 

[flatwater bill]

Ed................I hope your 4th trip is the "perfection" you hope for. But I know that AWA is always a possibility. And what appears to be a mishap or a change of plans,often provides the excitement and the memories. Good hunting. ...........FWB

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

That’s interesting? I know the Garands were plentiful after WW2, but you don’t here much about them being used for hunting? Too heavy to carry around all day?

Co Elk Hunter
Indeed , you are correct. Those rifles were fairly heavy . They had another feature which was problematic . After the eighth cartridge was expended , the metal frame which held the cartridges , would pop out of the rifle and fall on the ground . When you are guiding a client who is hunting at night , in muddy terrain , it may sometimes be very difficult to find the metal frame later on . Without the metal frame , the rifle cannot be loaded . Fortunately
1) Most of my clients who brought these Model 1 Garand auto loader rifles , always brought extra metal frames .
2) Relatively few clients actually needed to keep shooting long enough , for all eight cartridges to be expended.

The Model 1 Garand rifle has a vivid memory in my mind , due to one incident in 1964 . One client used all eight cartridges in the rifle to stop a charging Royal Bengal tiger .

 

[Ed Lally]

AWA?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Co Elk Hunter
Indeed , you are correct. Those rifles were fairly heavy . They had another feature which was problematic . After the eighth cartridge was expended , the metal frame which held the cartridges , would pop out of the rifle and fall on the ground . When you are guiding a client who is hunting at night , in muddy terrain , it may sometimes be very difficult to find the metal frame later on . Without the metal frame , the rifle cannot be loaded . Fortunately
1) Most of my clients who brought these Model 1 Garand auto loader rifles , always brought extra metal frames .
2) Relatively few clients actually needed to keep shooting long enough , for all eight cartridges to be expended.

The Model 1 Garand rifle has a vivid memory in my mind , due to one incident in 1964 . One client used all eight cartridges in the rifle to stop a charging Royal Bengal tiger .

So I've read, there was also another issue with the ejecting clips. Enemy soldiers knew that sound meant that at least for a moment the one shooting at him was out of bullets. Depending on the situation that could be a problem.

 

[JimP]

And because of those design flaws in the Grand they could not top it off with more rounds, they had to shoot until it was empty

 

[flatwater bill]

Ed..................a common expression among my PH friends, when things go completely to Hell is.................."Africa Wins Again"....or simply AWA........................FWB

 

[Ed Lally]

Thanks. Praying that ADNWA,ALNTT in 2020.

 

[BeeMaa]

I get Africa Does Not Win Again (ADNWA) but ALNTT you will have to help me out.

Best of luck to you in 2020!
And just to stay on topic...IMO, your 470NE is enough gun.

 

[Certus]

At least not something something..?

 

[Excessexpress]

Ok, I’ll stir the cauldron! Browning BAR pre Mark 2 (Not sure why pre-maybe steel receiver?) in .458 WM or .416 Taylor from factory chambered .338 WM? I read somewhere several months ago that someone had made these conversations. Same cartridge lengths, widths and rim diameter. Yeah I know semi-auto hunting rifles aren’t legal in many countries and this probably wouldn’t qualify as a DG rifle anywhere, but still an interesting concept? As with all semi-auto platforms, recoil is reduced somewhat for follow up shots if one was concerned about .458 recoil? I wouldn’t use one on DG, but it would be interesting to shoot? Yes, off the topic here, but .458 and recoil and my feeble mind remembered reading this?

Such a beast was known, if not commonplace among Victorian Sambar hunters in the 80s and 90s. Generally loaded with a 350Gr projectile, a well placed shot folded even the biggest stags into a heap.

The great abomination of 96 saw an end to these fine conversions, most ended up in the crusher.

 

[Ed Lally]

At Least Not This Time! AWA is inevitable but hopefully delayed.

Thanksgiving and abundant Blessings to all on AH. May we always be aware of the Blessings we have enjoyed and may we give thanks for those yet to come.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

So I've read, there was also another issue with the ejecting clips. Enemy soldiers knew that sound meant that at least for a moment the one shooting at him was out of bullets. Depending on the situation that could be a problem.

Phoenix Phil
I imagine that it would be a very big problem in a combat situation . It had a very distinctive " Ping ! " type metallic sound . Unlike animals , human beings ( especially those well experienced with fire arms ) could easily use the sound as an indicator of an enemy with an empty Model 1 Garand rifle .

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yes, that’s really asha

Such a beast was known, if not commonplace among Victorian Sambar hunters in the 80s and 90s. Generally loaded with a 350Gr projectile, a well placed shot folded even the biggest stags into a heap.

The great abomination of 96 saw an end to these fine conversions, most ended up in the crusher.

Yes, that’s really ashame those and other semi auto hunting rifles like the Remingtons were outlawed in your country. They only have a three or four round detachable magazine capacity and are great for hunters with a disability as they don’t have to manipulate a bolt or pump and the rifle’s recoil is less. I was black bear hunting once, when I saw a disabled man with a semi auto Remington. His right arm was impaired but he was a right hand shooter. He explained to me that he could load his semi auto magazine and work the bolt once with his left hand and then he was set for the rest of his hunt. A friend of mine had a BAR in .300 WM he hunted elk with. Too heavy for me, but he liked the reduced recoil. To each their own!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Hey .458 Winchester Magnum rifle aficionados,
There is an early 1970s Browning BAR custom rifle in .458 WM for sale on Gun Broker right now. The description states it was a Guns and Ammo project rifle built by Bill Atkinson of Prescott, AZ and the rifle build was reported on by G & A technical editor Jack Lott. It has a rear peep sight and upgraded furniture. All paperwork concerning the build are with it. Someone here on AH should buy it! Toby 458 where are you? Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[WAB]

Just checked it out, seriously cool.

 

[TOBY458]

Hey .458 Winchester Magnum rifle aficionados,
There is an early 1970s Browning BAR custom rifle in .458 WM for sale on Gun Broker right now. The description states it was a Guns and Ammo project rifle built by Bill Atkinson of Prescott, AZ and the rifle build was reported on by G & A technical editor Jack Lott. It has a rear peep sight and upgraded furniture. All paperwork concerning the build are with it. Someone here on AH should buy it! Toby 458 where are you? Ha! Ha! Ha!

No autos for me! I'm currently having nasty thoughts about double rifles again. Lol!

 

[mikecatt13]

Having different calibres to use just adds to the fun.
Do the first buffalo with a scoped 375 H&H enjoy and have fun go back do it again with a 458 open sights or red dot like trijicon RMR, SRO, Deltapoint or what ever works for you and make it a challenge to get 50 meters or closer.

I'm awaiting my license/permit for my 458 lott and on its menu is a waterbuck bull as my first targte and then hopefully a buffalo again hunting animals with big bores is fun and challenging at the same time.

So to get back to the post use a 375 H&H on your first buff hunt you are not limited when scoped to use it past 150 yards for proper shot placemeent making and giving you a good chance to go home with a buff. Recoil is very manageablee and 300gr with a proper bullet 2500fps does hurt a buff. You will probarbly have back up is the popo hits the fan with a bigger calibre anyway.

Bigger calibres are an adjusment to shoot especially if you dont shoot them often they limit you on range and on the gals that can be used with beter eye relief and they do push back far more than a 375 but having a bigger gun is fun and make it a challenge on a buff hunt to get closely acquainted.

Excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question or I'm interpreting wrong. This seems to imply a .458 wouldnt be scoped, why is that? Recoil issues with optics or are they just traditionally used at closer range so magnification isnt needed? Or not used to avoid getting a scope to the forehead (I've never been able to shoot one)?

 

[Quaticman]

Excuse my ignorance if this is a silly question or I'm interpreting wrong. This seems to imply a .458 wouldnt be scoped, why is that? Recoil issues with optics or are they just traditionally used at closer range so magnification isnt needed? Or not used to avoid getting a scope to the forehead (I've never been able to shoot one)?

I have a Leupold Vari X III 2.5-8x scope on it.