@Hunter-Habib I completely understand your thoughts here, I would have been exactly the same 15 years ago, and actually had lots of reservations myself until putting similar bullets to buffalo. Let me explain;
First, for this exercise I am keeping this directed to TWO Objectives. 458 and Buffalo only.......
If thinking in Conventional expanding Trauma inflicting bullets only, then
@Hunter-Habib and I are on exactly the same page. In 458 Winchester I like the 450 Swift or North Fork, either one. Both will hit broadside and do damage, and both will be found on the far side under the hide. They can both get up enough velocity in 458 Winchester to do the job, and then backup with a good solid, today either CEB #13s or North Forks.... No question about it. I would probably do the same in larger capacity like the Lott as well..... I shot several buffalo with the Lott and 500 Swifts, also recovered some of those on the far side too......... backed in those days by 500 Barnes Solids, and 2005 by the FN Versions. I have shot buffalo with 500 Woodlieghs as well, same story, recovered a few of those as well. Those were conventional days, and this is where we started gathering information from test work to gain comparisons and get correlation data between the two.
In 2009 I started doing a lot of shooting with the First Generation Copper CNC HP bullets. Conventional beliefs and teachings always taught us that once a bullet starts shedding weight that this was bad, you would loose penetration, loose effectiveness and it was just bad and a failure if your bullet started breaking apart loosing weight! RIght? Yes........... I was more or less forced into this by trying to come up with suitable DG Bullets for my .500s...... I tested, petals/blades break off, but I was having a hard time reading the tea leaves. What I was finding in the test work, before going to the field with these, that I was getting deeper penetration than Conventional wisdom told me I could get? In fact, deeper than conventionals in .458? On top of that, I was getting more trauma in medium as well? Deeper Penetration? How, all the petals and blades sheared? First time to the field I knew I did not have enough bullet for buffalo, I would have to be careful and take my shots accordingly........ that was until the first buffalo shot, and these bullets were burning through buffalo like they were hot butter, and destroying everything in their path to pieces. Buffalo stand and quiver many times...... I had more than enough bullet, exits were common.......... The light bulb finally came on..........First Generation Copper CNC would now be CEB Maximus and Hammer Bullets as examples.
Next were the Raptors, What I call 2cd Generation CNC...... I like brass and most of them are brass, but some copper Raptors exist but have to be manipulated to behave like a Brass Raptor. Brass Raptors Shear BLADES at 1.5 to 2 inches inside any aqueoua tissue or test medium, these are not petals, they slice and dice everything in their path, and radiate aways from center, center bullet becomes a full caliber broken beer bottle solid and continues to penetrate dead straight. Massive trauma is inflicted, blades slice vessels, tissues, organs everything to pieces. In a buffalo .458 caliber Raptors these blades can be found in the goo that comes out of the chest cavity at the skinning shed, but you have to do some sifting through all the blood, gore and goo left behind. If that shot was broadside, it is unlikely you will find a center bullet, but you will find a nice full caliber hole going out the far side. CEB makes a 450 Solid, that is just superb in all 458 caliber cartridges, its matching Raptor is 420 gr. It is the premier Buffalo bullet for 458 caliber, and many a buffalo has been put in the dirt with them. The 420 Raptor IS the 450 Solid just with a big hollow cavity. Same length, same bearing surface. Before this time, I had a theory, make the solid, then give it a hollow point .4 inches deep and we had to adjust each caliber cavity width to get proper shear, the thought was to have the same bullet, and with the same load you would have the same POI at 50 yards. Most try to manipulate the weight to get this, but this would have caused issues with CNC brass and copper. By making bearing surface and length the same as the solid, you have the same POI with the same load...... It worked.
From my Conventional Wisdom Days, I determined a proper buffalo bullet had to penetrate in my test medium here, from 18 inches +........ The best penetration I ever acheived was 500 gr Swift A Frames at 24 inches....... so a minimum was set in my mind, 18-24 inches in my medium, we had a buffalo bullet, and I pretty much keep that to this day. After many a bovine shot, both cape and asiatic we learned a few things along the way. I never changed this minimum because of these new Non Conventional Bullets, but we probably could to an extent, but we are very safe staying with these numbers even with Non Cons......
This is why I said above that if careful, the 295 Raptor will be fine on buffalo with a perfect broadside, but I have some reservations about severe angled shots. And also, perhaps I am being a little conservative on this, because it is YOU, and not me. Me, I would do crazy things, but you I want to not have any problems. I have almost no doubt, broadside 295 Raptor can exit, and will most of the time.
In 2013 I was testing the new 250 Socom Raptors in the field, I had shot several Zebra, wildebeast and so forth in my 18 inch 458 B&M. I was running the 250 Raptors at 2900 fps, and just lucky in this gun POI was close enough at 50 yards matching the 420 Raptors and the 450 Solids, so I could pick and choose the bullet, not change the sight systems............. This 250 Socom Raptor was doing one hell of a number on large plains game....... it was ripping them to pieces, and zebra would drop to the shot consistently, I never had one run after taking the hit. Same with everything else as well......... I even had to use one for the biggest hippo I had ever taken, but it was a brain shot at 15 steps, and 100+ yards from the shore line. The brain shot was incredible, squirting brain out both ear holes 6 feet in both directions........
So, I wanted to see what would happen with this 250 Socom .458 caliber bullet on buffalo! We found a good shot at a Cow buffalo, I was careful, I made a deliberate shot behind the shoulder. This proved effective. After we did find the base of the 250 Socom on the far side in the hide, it did not exit. But it did make it all the way through. OK the remaining bullet from a .458 caliber 250 gr bullet had just penetrated as deep as I have seen 500 gr Swift A Frames in .458 caliber..... Let that sink in for a second! I only recovered two 250 gr Socom Raptors, one behind the skull of the hippo, and this bullet on far side of cow buffalo..........
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Now, I would not recommend the 250 Socom for buffalo. But if careful, it could be done in a pinch.
I believe, but I am not 100% certain that the 295 Raptor test I showed above was done with the bullets not having the Talon Tips installed. I am looking at tests done with the 300 ESP Raptor, Enhanced System Projectile..... meaning Raptor on one end, and #13 Solid on the other end, it can be loaded either way.........
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Take particular note that the increased velocity at 48 yards with Talon Tip installed, the increase in penetration. This is definitely no doubt about it absolutely Buffalo Capable ................. and you can also use the solid to reasonable effect for buffalo. The Nose projection on the solid end is short and this is its main limitation.
Now, here is the reason that the 420 Raptor is very much a serious buffalo bullet........... The only one I ever recovered was a frontal chest shot, and the bullet was finally found just behind the stomach of that buffalo....... easy 4 ft of penetration, and had to completely traverse all the stomach contents............
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There is no conventional expanding bullet that would have penetrated that stomach completely.
Remember, 500 Swift A Frame, 458 Lott, 2270 fps penetrated to 24 inches in my test medium...........
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I was asked to do some research on the 400 gr Hammer in .458 Caliber in 458 Winchester. I actually did a lot of pressure data with various powders and loads, but ended up doing the Terminal tests with B&Ms........... After doing the Terminals with the 400 Hammer I declared it "Buffalo Capable".......... later at least a couple of guys used the 400 Hammer on buffalo with extreme success, I was told the bullets "Hammered Buffalo to the Dirt"................ This is an example of Generation 1 Tech...... 400 gr Bullet on buffalo......
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Now, there are two other types of Non Conventional bullets that I know would be effective, the Expanding CPS North Forks and the Lehigh Extremes. I have used the Expanding North Forks on buffalo in .500 caliber and in .474 caliber, I believe the two CPS in .458 would easy be buffalo capable..............
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If I were not retired I would also put the Lehigh Extremes up against buffalo..........
Lehigh makes a 225 gr, 250 gr and 325 gr Extreme............ and from what I can see here, they do what they say they can do............
Last fall I had a friend that used a 250 gr Lehigh Extreme in his 458 B&M at 2900 fps for Bison. It was one shot, less than 50 yards, and DRT on the spot....... His statement "This is a Deadly Bullet"..... no bullet recovered............
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