.458 win mag for North America

[CoElkHunter]

I might steal your load of H335 for the 350 Hot Cor. And I do have a chrono. Maybe I'll load some and shoot them over the chrony.

If you do, please let me/us know the velocity. My .458WM is a CZ with a 25” barrel.

 

[ChrisG]

If you do, please let me/us know the velocity. My .458WM is a CZ with a 25” barrel.

I should have forend checkering done by the end of the week. Then, I will put it all back together and load a few of those up and report back. My Whitworth is a 24" barrel, I believe, so it should give very similar velocity.

Hornady has always been pretty on the money as far as velocity goes. Other manuals... not so much.

 

[camerl2009]

This is from the Hornady manual using THEIR 350gr. bullets:

I don’t have that one yet.

 

[ldmay375]

I've been reloading Barnes 450gr. TSX with 70.0gr. of H335 and Speer 350gr. Hot Cor with 77.0gr. of H335 in my .458WM. Both loads "feel" a little light, but I too don't have a chronograph, so I don't know.

You are definitely Light with the 350 grain Hot-Core.
458 Winchester, Speer #15 Handloading Manual:

 

[camerl2009]

You are definitely Light with the 350 grain Hot-Core.
458 Winchester, Speer #15 Handloading Manual:
View attachment 574533

With the hornady 350gr 69gr of 2015 is close to the base of the bullet with the bullet seated to the crimp groove. Since I am using standard rifle primers I was told to stay away from ball powder and compressed loads.

 

[CoElkHunter]

You are definitely Light with the 350 grain Hot-Core.
458 Winchester, Speer #15 Handloading Manual:
View attachment 574533

Wait a minute. Your Speer manual shows a 350gr. bullet with 81.0gr. of H335 @2261fps, and my Hornady manual shows a 350gr. bullet with 76.6gr. of H335 @2300fps? WTH? It's no wonder one needs a chronograph because the reloading manuals are so out of whack with their ballistics when comparing them to one other.

 

[ChrisG]

Wait a minute. Your Speer manual shows a 350gr. bullet with 81.0gr. of H335 @2261fps, and my Hornady manual shows a 350gr. bullet with 76.6gr. of H335 @2300fps? WTH? It's no wonder one needs a chronograph because the reloading manuals are so out of whack with their ballistics when comparing them to one other.

Hornady Interlocks have a heavier jacket and a shorter ogive = more bearing surface. They will cause a rise in pressure accordingly. That's likely the cause for the discrepancy.

So less powder yields the same working pressure for the hornady, and the bullet is harder to accelerate, so pressure stays high for longer with the hornady. Also, hornady is definitely rounding their numbers to the max, not the min, so they could have had an average velocity of 2,239fps, so rounded that to 2,300fps.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Hornady Interlocks have a heavier jacket and a shorter ogive = more bearing surface. They will cause a rise in pressure accordingly. That's likely the cause for the discrepancy.

So less powder yields the same working pressure for the hornady, and the bullet is harder to accelerate, so pressure stays high for longer with the hornady. Also, hornady is definitely rounding their numbers to the max, not the min, so they could have had an average velocity of 2,239fps, so rounded that to 2,300fps.

I wouldn't have imagined a 4.4gr. difference with the same weight bullet, unless one was a monometal, would increase pressure that much, but I guess so. I'll have to get a newer Speer manual as mine is their number 11 edition from 1987 and only shows a 400gr. Flat Nose loading in .458WM.

 

[ChrisG]

Well 81 grains of H335 pretty near fills the case all the way, but I have one 350 speer ready to chrono when the stock checkering is done. I will likely have results by Saturday to post.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well 81 grains of H335 pretty near fills the case all the way, but I have one 350 speer ready to chrono when the stock checkering is done. I will likely have results by Saturday to post.View attachment 574584View attachment 574585

I guess I'll have to step up to 81gr with the Speers. Still a relatively modest load.

 

[FLC]

I shoot them fine. The recoil doesn't bother me. But I see no point in the cartridge for North America, or even for most game in Africa .

 

[ChrisG]

I guess I'll have to step up to 81gr with the Speers. Still a relatively modest load.

I used to have a 416 Ruger. It would push a 340 Woodleigh Weldcore at 2,550. Ir didn't kick as bad as the 400 grainers did. So this should be a very mild load. Kinda puts the 458 Win mag to shame for lighter bullets. I took the bear in my avatar with that load, and when I recovered from the recoil, that bear was a lump of black fur with a dust cloud hanging over him.

All that said, the larger diameter of the 458 should make it at least as dramatic, even given less velocity and energy than a .416 can muster given the same bullet weight.

 

[camerl2009]

I shoot them fine. The recoil doesn't bother me. But I see no point in the cartridge for North America, or even for most game in Africa .

Idk seems pretty versatile lighter/thinner jacketed stuff or even hard cast for North America/Europe heavier jacketed softs and solids for Africa. Everything from whitetail to elephant. The tri ball load I wanna play with could even be a close range coyote killer.

 

[ldmay375]

If you have a rifle in 458 that you like, I certainly see no reason not to use it. Particularly if one's shots are in the 200 yard and less range. Certainly several bullet choices, conventional and non-conventional designs.

 

[camerl2009]

Well tomorrow is the day I see if my shoulder(torn about 3 years ago) can handle it. these loads shouldn’t be too bad around the same recoil as old school 1 1/4oz 12ga slug loads.

 

[camerl2009]

Well tomorrow is the day I see if my shoulder(torn about 3 years ago) can handle it. these loads shouldn’t be too bad around the same recoil as old school 1 1/4oz 12ga loads.

Got rained out so gonna have to post pone that.

 

[1dirthawker]

@camerl2009,

just a little feedback for ya. i am relatively new to the 458 win myself. i did shoot several brown bears, a moose and caribou with my 45-70 with a 350 gr bullet @2150 fps. it did pretty great work.

then, got a 458 win thanks to @Badboymelvin staunch defense of the caliber. i managed to fire it twice in anger at previously shot and wounded brown bears this season. i was shooting the tbbc 400 gr factory loads. the results of the shot both times were....definitive. they did not bounce off of the bears (as i 1/2 expected) and flattened each boar with authority. one at 180 yards, one at 65 yards.

i suspect a 350 gr bullet at 2400+fps will leave you with an extremely thoroughly killed bear (or anything else for that matter).

good hunting, interested in hearing your results.

 

[ChrisG]

I haven't gotten around to chronographing that 350 speer load yet. I did get a chance to fire a 400 grain speer, though! With Win 748, the fireball and BOOM were very impressive. My neighbors down the road love me, I'm sure. Anyway, that should have been clocking about 2,200 and off-hand the recoil reminded me of a .375 Ruger. It's very mild and easy to shoot! That might be another option, although I think that bullet is made for a .45-70, so it might splash at those velocities. I'll have to put one into some water jugs before I take it hunting.

 

[camerl2009]

@camerl2009,

just a little feedback for ya. i am relatively new to the 458 win myself. i did shoot several brown bears, a moose and caribou with my 45-70 with a 350 gr bullet @2150 fps. it did pretty great work.

then, got a 458 win thanks to @Badboymelvin staunch defense of the caliber. i managed to fire it twice in anger at previously shot and wounded brown bears this season. i was shooting the tbbc 400 gr factory loads. the results of the shot both times were....definitive. they did not bounce off of the bears (as i 1/2 expected) and flattened each boar with authority. one at 180 yards, one at 65 yards.

i suspect a 350 gr bullet at 2400+fps will leave you with an extremely thoroughly killed bear (or anything else for that matter).

good hunting, interested in hearing your results.

I’m going to try to keep it a little slower black bears ain’t that tough and about 150 yard is my personal max for irons. That’s one of my only complaints about this rifle is the sights it’s a ruger m77 tang safety why it has a 10/22 style rear sight and a small post is beyond me. I have thought about trying to order express sights for it.

 

[1dirthawker]

I’m going to try to keep it a little slower black bears ain’t that tough and about 150 yard is my personal max for irons. That’s one of my only complaints about this rifle is the sights it’s a ruger m77 tang safety why it has a 10/22 style rear sight and a small post is beyond me. I have thought about trying to order express sights for it.

IF you are only going to use open sights on this rifle, then you should put very good sights on it. if you are going to scope it, well, then the open sights are backup. still be nice to have good sights on it, but if there is a scope on the gun, you will rarely if ever use the sights.