.450/400 NE, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby/Remington

[CoElkHunter]

Necking 458 down is a good bit easier than necking 338 up IMO.. but either one works..

Necking up from 338 is a 2 or 3 step process from what I can tell.. whereas necking down from 458 is a single pull of the lever at the reloading bench.. run 458 brass up a 416 taylor full length sizing die and you are done..

Most people I have talked to that use 338, first neck up to 35.. then neck up to 375 then take the neck to 416.. going straight from 338 to 416 appears to be an issue (I have never necked up from 338 myself.. so I am strictly going off of what I have been told by a couple of other 416T owners and what I have read on some other forums that are more reloading focused)..

Yeah, the .338 neck up seems to complicated as you have described with multiple sizing dies needed. I'll just buy more .458 brass if I decide to build a .416 Taylor. I'll ask a gunsmith acquaintance about it. He builds custom rifles mainly with the .340 Weatherby mag cartridge. Thanks!

 

[Milehighshooter]

That CZ 416 Ruger is a steal at that price. That gun has been in the system a LONG time, likely 2+ years. I do believe they paid more for it than they're selling it for.

Shame you'd likely order it into the Lone Tree store, I'd love to handle it haha.

As to the cartridge, in that weight rifle, it'll be easier to shoot than the article's youre reading about. Articles on the 416 Ruger are all centered around the Ruger Alaskan. That gun is a pound lighter, if not more. That CZ is in the Rigby weight class with less powder being burned. Plus you don't NEED to load it to max, you could dial it back. With 300 gr TSX or 350 gr bullets it would make a fine elk rifle, but a bit heavy for my tastes. Add a scope and that thing will be 10.5 lbs

 

[CoElkHunter]

That CZ 416 Ruger is a steal at that price. That gun has been in the system a LONG time, likely 2+ years. I do believe they paid more for it than they're selling it for.

Shame you'd likely order it into the Lone Tree store, I'd love to handle it haha.

As to the cartridge, in that weight rifle, it'll be easier to shoot than the article's youre reading about. Articles on the 416 Ruger are all centered around the Ruger Alaskan. That gun is a pound lighter, if not more. That CZ is in the Rigby weight class with less powder being burned. Plus you don't NEED to load it to max, you could dial it back. With 300 gr TSX or 350 gr bullets it would make a fine elk rifle, but a bit heavy for my tastes. Add a scope and that thing will be 10.5 lbs

Yeah, Gunsmith Earl Hickman probably put it together with the Shaw barrel (cost?), Cerakote ($150), muzzle brake ($150). I didn’t know CZ made the .416 Ruger chambering? But maybe the Shaw barrel/chamber makes it that caliber? I’m not really familiar how the re-chambering to different calibers is accomplished. The listing also states the synthetic stock is from the factory? I’m just wondering if the previous owner had feeding problems or something similar? Cabelas also has a Cz 550.458WM re-chambered to a .458 Lott listing for $1,000. Feeding problems maybe? From the photos, both guns look great and their prices on these two rifles seem good. Plus, the .416 Ruger comes with RCBS dies and 130 cases and Hornady 400gr Interlock bullets. Well, it costs $25.00 to ship a firearm from one Cabelas to another to physically check out the rifle and play the game! Not too bad really, cause you have 30 days to decide to buy it or not.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

The 450-400 and 404J are essentially the same cartridge. Former for doubles, latter for bolt guns. Same as 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r.

The rigby packs more punch loaded up to modern standards.

I agree with you JPbowhunter.

 

[Milehighshooter]

COH,

If you replace the barrel, the chamber can be different. If you're JUST rechambering, that's like taking a 375 H&H and having a new chamber cut to 375 Wby. Or, they took a barrel and cut off the threads, which shortened it, and cut a new chamber of the same bullet diameter.

CZ has offered the 375 Ruger from their custom shop, but I imagine someone totally re- barreled the 416.

The synthetic Aramid stock IS a factory option for the American Safari rifles, its a pretty nice stock.

Shaw barrel cut, chambered and installed wasd probably around 400.

You'll find a lot of used big bores were bought by guys on a splurge, they shoot it and realize bug bores are no joke and promptly discard it at a loss.

If you don't mind the extra 40 min drive, have the gun sent to the Thornton store and I'll give it a good once over and let you know my opinion before you come pick it up.

 

[CoElkHunter]

COH,

If you replace the barrel, the chamber can be different. If you're JUST rechambering, that's like taking a 375 H&H and having a new chamber cut to 375 Wby. Or, they took a barrel and cut off the threads, which shortened it, and cut a new chamber of the same bullet diameter.

CZ has offered the 375 Ruger from their custom shop, but I imagine someone totally re- barreled the 416.

The synthetic Aramid stock IS a factory option for the American Safari rifles, its a pretty nice stock.

Shaw barrel cut, chambered and installed wasd probably around 400.

You'll find a lot of used big bores were bought by guys on a splurge, they shoot it and realize bug bores are no joke and promptly discard it at a loss.

If you don't mind the extra 40 min drive, have the gun sent to the Thornton store and I'll give it a good once over and let you know my opinion before you come pick it up.

Thanks a lot for the information! But the Lone Tree store is too far from you? I've got to drive from Colorado Springs through that traffic mess between the Springs and Castle Rock, cause Cabelas thought it was prudent to build two stores in Denver, but not one serving some 600,000 people plus in Colo Spgs and Southern Colorado! Go figure! That's probably not worth the price of the rifle! Ha! Ha! Ha! Anyway, with all the work done to this rifle I think, like you said, it's a great deal. I will seriously think about it. With the Cerakote finish, it would be a great all-weather rifle.

 

[Milehighshooter]

I work in the Thornton library

 

[CoElkHunter]

I work in the Thornton library

Oh OK, makes sense now.

 

[crs]

Some of my friends bought big bores just for an African hunt and then sold them.

Postoak - wrt your post, yes those cartridge listings on Wikipedia do put them in the very big game power range, especially when they are moving a 400-450 grain bullet out at or above 2150 fps.
2150 fps MV happens to be the MV of 450 grain Kodiak FMJ from my 1886 .45-90 which puts it up into the very big game category. It also can use .45-70 ammo for lesser game.
So, I kept it after its African DG adventure.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I built a 416 Taylor on a 98 Mauser action last year... LOVE the cartridge..

416 Rem Mag performance out of a standard length action.. with recoil only minimally greater than my 375 H&H..

Brass is plentiful and affordable (I’ve necked down 100 458 Win Mag brass and have 50 pieces of properly headstamped Norma brass)... with 350gr bullets it shoots plenty flat out to 200 and with 400gr it can handle anything on 4 legs on the planet..

LOVE my 416 Taylor

Playing the "devils advocate" here, has anyone necked down a .458 Lott to .416 caliber? I don't know why it would be/have been done, but I've read about quite a few unusual cartridge conversions here on AH, but not this one?

 

[lwaters]

Playing the "devils advocate" here, has anyone necked down a .458 Lott to .416 caliber? I don't know why it would be/have been done, but I've read about quite a few unusual cartridge conversions here on AH, but not this one?

That would be the 416 Remington.

 

[Milehighshooter]

Remington beat you to the idea by 30+ years

 

[CoElkHunter]

That would be the 416 Remington.

Wow! I did not know that. I guess I've never read anything about the .416 Remington's parent cartridge. So, .458 Lott cases sized in .416 Remington dies creates the Remington? I have been recently focusing on the .416 Taylor cartridge from the .458WM cases, but I can't find .416 Taylor dies anywhere. This may be my alternative if/when I decide on a .416. Maybe somebody will neck down a .460 Weatherby to .416 (don't tell me, it's already been done?). Ha!Ha! Thanks!

 

[Milehighshooter]

Yea, the 416 Weatherby, which came out like a year after the 416 Remington

 

[Milehighshooter]

Technically the 416 Remington is the 8mm Rem Mag necked up. They're both (and the Lott) just the 375 H&H blown out and necked up.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Remington beat you to the idea by 30+ years

Yeah I know now! I'm going to quit while I'm still behind. More ignorance on my part. HOWEVER, not only have I yet to see a photograph (let alone an actual cartridge) of a .465 H & H (Pheroze's unicorn), I'm positive (almost) that no one has made a .416 caliber from it. Why anyone would want to, isn't the point, after looking at many odd caliber conversions here on AH. Thanks for playing!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Technically the 416 Remington is the 8mm Rem Mag necked up. They're both (and the Lott) just the 375 H&H blown out and necked up.

OK. So if I take a Lott case and size it in a .416 Remington die, it will be a .416 Remington? Or a 8mm Rem Mag case in a .416 Rem Mag die it will become a .416? If not, I'm back to the .416 Taylor created with one pull of a .458WM case in a Taylor sizing die? Interesting?

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yea, the 416 Weatherby, which came out like a year after the 416 Remington

Well, zero for two! But, the .465 H & H may keep me from striking out? Ha! Ha!

 

[Milehighshooter]

It's all the same. Just as necking up a 338 win would still make a 416 Taylor. It's the exact same thing, just 3.4" vs 3.6"

Unless you invent a new caliber of bullet, or find out about some odd new case that's not on the market left, its safe to assume every conceivable wildcat has already been made. Any differences to standard existing cartridges at this point in time will only be super nit picky different

 

[CoElkHunter]

It's all the same. Just as necking up a 338 win would still make a 416 Taylor. It's the exact same thing, just 3.4" vs 3.6"

Unless you invent a new caliber of bullet, or find out about some odd new case that's not on the market left, its safe to assume every conceivable wildcat has already been made. Any differences to standard existing cartridges at this point in time will only be super nit picky different

Your probably right. I quit!