.450/400 3" and 3 1/4" versus .375H&H for buffalo..?

[Pondoro]

What do you think..those of you who have used both for buffalo..?

 

[Just a dude in BC]

Good day,

I have rifles in both cals, a 375 in a zkk 602, and a 450/400 in a ruger no.1 (the 3" version, I have no experience with the 3.25")

My personal opinion is this:
- If the rifle is just for buffalo, then the 450/400 is the way to go. The 400gr bullet moving around 2150 ish is a proven recipe for buff. It is basically the original 404 Jeffery, in fact it is often called the 400 Jeffery. Nobody doubts that the original loading of the 404 Jeffery again a 400gr bullet at 2150 is ideal for buff. So the 450/400 with a quality projectile is an ideal balance of killing power and ease of recoil.

- BUT A 375 h&h is more versatile. While the 450/400 was the original "do all rifle" of Africa, the 375 h&h is a better "do it all" rifle. So if you want to one gun, or a gun that can fill more roles on different hunts, the 375 is the way to go.

I am also of the sound opinion that the best choice is option C.... Buy both.


Edit: What rifles are you considering in these cals?

 

[Pondoro]

Well actually I have both...a ZKK 602 in .375 and a Joseph Lang double rifle in .450/400 3 1/4NE.

I have not hunted the Lang yet but I will try it on buffalo in the future..I also have the impression that a 450/400 is an ideal calibre for buffalo.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I have taken several buffalo with .450-.4001/4.& .375 H&H. If I was hunting for my own or professionally. I would grab the dbl. every time. Both calibers will kill, but I feel more comfortable with double.

Lon

 

[Pondoro]

Lon..what ammo did you use in the .450/400..?

 

[sureshot375]

Both are wonderful for buff. The absolute most important thing is making the first shot count. Therefore, go with whatever you shoot the best.

.375 is a touch more versatile for an all around rifle.

Does anyone else other than Hornady make .450/.400 ammo? They seem to be the company that has invested the most in producing ammo for our very limited market.

Rifle selection is probably more important than caliber selection. Doubles are lots of fun, but significantly harder to shoot. A double limits your shot opportunities. Unless you are looking for a handicap/challenge a scoped bolt is the way to go.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

The only ammo I have seen/found is hornady, or unloaded hornady brass. That being said, the brass seems to hold up quite well, and there are a goodly amount of different bullet options. I reload all of mine, and use hornady pills for practice, and northfork for animals.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I owned and shot a Ruger No1 in 375 H&H and shot a buffalo, zebra and a lot of smaller game. The same rifle has since shot two more buff and a huge zebra.
I now own a 450/400 double, which has yet to take a buff. Everything tells me that they are much the same capability, the 450/400 a bit more fun.

 

[Longwalker]

I’ve killed only two Cape buffalo so far.

The first one was shot with my Merkel .450-400 3” and Hornady DGX bonded ammo, followed up immediately with a NF cup point solid that was not necessary. Both bullets performed exactly as expected.

The other one was with a Win m70 .375 H&H and Swift Aframe. Followed up immediately with a Trophy bonded flat point solid that was not necessary. Both bullets performed exactly as expected.

Both the .450-400 and .375 killed quickly, satisfied expectations, and left nothing to be desired.

In two weeks I’m leaving for Mozambique to hunt buffalo. I’m bringing the Merkel .450-400 3”. Not because it’s so much better, but it’s what I want to hunt with. It will be loaded with a Swift Aframe in the right barrel and a NF cup point solid in the left.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

@Longwalker You know I think you probably made the best point in this thread, when you said:
"Not because it is so much better, but it's what I want to hunt with"

The mental management of shooting and the pressure of taking shots at animals, is often something that is not talk about as much as it should be in hunting circles. It's a lack of mental management that causes a ton of pulled shots, or failing to follow through, or run away buck fever, when trying to tag a nice animal.
One of the best cures for these problems which can plague us all is confidence in, and I would even hazard love, for your rifle. Sometimes its the way it feels in your hands, sometimes it's the way it looks, maybe it is an interesting grain pattern in the wood.

Whatever it is, I know this: "If both rifles can take the animal you want cleanly, choosing the one you like the looks of the best, or the one you just seem to have more of a draw to, is probably a better metric than arguing caliber"

 

[Surgeon1]

All the Buffalo I've taken have been with a double. 470NE on two with 500gr A-Frames.
Got tired of the recoil! went to a 450-400 and have been delighted with the results! Using Swift 400gr A-frames have been able to drop the most recent ones including this year with 2 quick shots!
Usually have a tracker carry a scoped bolt usually in 375 if needed. only used the bolt gun on one buffalo as a finishing shot for fun!
always have 3-4 rounds of Swift solids handy if there are tuskers or hippo that could be a problem but so far have not needed.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Well I shot my Searcy 450-400 3" at more than 125 fps with a 400 gr.bullet I consider it a better buff caliber and a full equal to a 375 H&H, better for close work perhaps but that said if I were to choose one over the other for all hunting I'd go with the 375 Ruger r H&H. Ether way your in good company and shoot the one that you shoot best is a plus anytime..The 3,25 is too close to call..and I shot my 404 at 24-2500 fps on DG.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I’m a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum man, through & through.

 

[Longwalker]

Last week I used my .450-400 3" to shoot a buffalo at a range of just over 110 -120 meters. Swift Aframe 400 gr. 2100 fps. High shoulder shot knocked it down and exited. Buff eventually got back up and wobbled off on three legs, another shot from the rear penetrated one ham, the rumen, and ended up against the diaphragm. A third shot the to base of the skull finished the job. I was perfectly satisfied with results considering my shot placement.

 

[Redfishga1]

Just picked up my merkel in 450/400. It has 75 and 50 fold down sights. Is the original fixed regulated for 25yds. Probably 18 months before I get to go pull the trigger on a buffalo. I had originally bought a said in 9.3x 62 but I just really want to do it with a double.

 

[matt85]

I’ve killed only two Cape buffalo so far.

The first one was shot with my Merkel .450-400 3” and Hornady DGX bonded ammo, followed up immediately with a NF cup point solid that was not necessary. Both bullets performed exactly as expected.

The other one was with a Win m70 .375 H&H and Swift Aframe. Followed up immediately with a Trophy bonded flat point solid that was not necessary. Both bullets performed exactly as expected.

Both the .450-400 and .375 killed quickly, satisfied expectations, and left nothing to be desired.

In two weeks I’m leaving for Mozambique to hunt buffalo. I’m bringing the Merkel .450-400 3”. Not because it’s so much better, but it’s what I want to hunt with. It will be loaded with a Swift Aframe in the right barrel and a NF cup point solid in the left.

This perfectly sums up my thoughts.

 

[Red Leg]

I'll play the contrarian.

On the typical short DG safari that a client now takes for Buffalo (7-10 days), I think a .375 is an infinitely more practical choice than the 450 - especially if the .450 is a double. Three of the four buffalo I have taken, I would not have attempted with an iron sighted or red dot equipped double. The shots weren't long, but they had to be threaded precisely through dark openings at dark animals standing in shadow. Would I have had other opportunities on those hunts - who knows. What I do know is those three shots were simple with a scoped .375.

If one wants to use a double for nostalgic reasons then fine, but one must have the discipline to walk away from questionable shots - hard to do on the second to last evening of an exhausting hunt in you pick the country. Screw up on a wildebeest and we'll owe a trophy fee. Screw up the first shot on a buffalo and we may destroy a family.

I have quoted him before, but my old friend and PH in Mozambique once said that the only thing that ever really scared him was a client on his first hunt for a buffalo unpacking his brand new double.

I should add that I own a .470 and 500/416 in doubles and a .404. None have yet been to Africa. The .375 has proven simply too perfect a choice.

 

[Pondoro]

I took my scoped .470 on a buffalo hunt this summer..it prooved so effective that I will probably not use something lighter on future buffalo hunts..

Its not that the .375 will do the job..it will..but there is a major punch in the .470..

Well, maybe I will bring the old .450/400 3 1/4 once.. I love to stalk in at very close range..