416WSM on Siamese Mauser & 416/348Ackley Improved on Martini

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What style open sights?? I need a new rear one for my 92’ baby saddle ring carbine
Gumpy

@Grumpy gumpy
I have a set of rear leaf peepsight that go into the original rear sight and a oearson

no drill scope mount for the 92
If you are interested
Bib

 

[dlmac]

The 400 fuller is by Bill Fuller who gunsmithed in Alaska and had something to do with the 450 Alaskan. The 400 Fuller is a 40 cal with a little body taper put back in from the AI design. It feeds better in Model 71.

The 400 Fuller would probably work better in the standard Siamese Mauser magazine.
416WSM bottoms out on the shoulder and the rim is able to float (if that makes sense). The smaller shoulder of the Fuller case along with the 348 rim would most likely operate better in the standard SM magazine.
Unfortunately I don't have enough fire formed 416/348AI shells to see if they feed out of the standard rails. I am in the que to have my Martini stock rough machined.

Maybe just a std 416/348 and normal tapered body? I do like 40 cal.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I went with the round knob, it felt like a more positive engagement on the uplift - if that make sense.
Still needs some more blending and polishing around the weld. I did use a 1/2" copper rod as a heat sink as suggested.
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I also thinned down the forend. If I ran a straight edge along the magazine surface it touched the forend tip. Meaning the forend was not running parallel with the magazine surface. It is now a I think looks better.
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The final activity for the day was to soft solder the magazine shim that had helped to ensure the left hand cartridge fed correctly.
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Once complete the feeding of cartridges appears to be robust. The final proof will be live firing.
The cross bolt are due to be delivered next week, and then once I complete the epoxy bedding it will be ready for live firing trials.

@BlueFlyer
I looked at my load from a disc and found I have load data for the 416-300WSM if that is any use to you I can send you a pm. Just let me know the powder and projectiles as well as the COAL you use and I will send you the info.
BOB

 

[Don416]

I cannot find any info on the 400 Fuller, is that based on the 45/70 case?
I used the same reamer to chamber the 416/348AI and the 416WSM, it just means the 416WSM has a slightly sharper shoulder than standard WSMs.
There will be more work to get the 416/348AI to function in a Siamese Mauser than if you go with a WSM based cartridge.

My 416wsm had all the same angles and dimensions of 300wsm. So U have an AI wsm 40deg shoulder?

 

[Don416]

I think WSM’s were 30 or 35deg shoulders, will lookup my drawing from PT&G.

 

[BlueFlyer]

Maybe just a std 416/348 and normal tapered body? I do like 40 cal.

I have plenty of nonfireformed 416/348W brass, so I can see how that feeds. That is a job for next weekend. In the Barossa Valley doing it tough for a couple of days.

I looked at my load from a disc and found I have load data for the 416-300WSM

Hi Bob, that would be fantastic.
Powders that I think will suit are AR2206, AR2208 & AR2209
Projectiles I have are 350g Speer hotcakes, and 400g

I think WSM’s were 30 or 35deg shoulders

WSMs have a 35deg shoulder, but other than shoulder angle the rest is the same. Shoulder to neck will be the same, but where the neck meets the body will be slightly further forward. I bought a FL reamer as well and have made my own FL resizer die. If I was to use a commercial FL die I would need to maintain the shoulder to body point and leave the last bit of the neck unsized.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

@Grumpy gumpy
I have a set of rear leaf peepsight that go into the original rear sight and a oearsonView attachment 636594View attachment 636595 no drill scope mount for the 92
If you are interested
Bib

Hi Bob, I’m looking for an original ladder site, I’ve lined up a Lyman no.1 peep for it( buying it back from the guy I sold it too before I got the rifle, the 15“ barrelled carbines are supposed to be rare, 700 odd made) so I’m trying to restore it.
I seem to have drifted off thread, sorry about that
Gumpy

 

[Don416]

I have plenty of nonfireformed 416/348W brass, so I can see how that feeds. That is a job for next weekend. In the Barossa Valley doing it tough for a couple of days.

Hi Bob, that would be fantastic.
Powders that I think will suit are AR2206, AR2208 & AR2209
Projectiles I have are 350g Speer hotcakes, and 400g

WSMs have a 35deg shoulder, but other than shoulder angle the rest is the same. Shoulder to neck will be the same, but where the neck meets the body will be slightly further forward. I bought a FL reamer as well and have made my own FL resizer die. If I was to use a commercial FL die I would need to maintain the shoulder to body point and leave the last bit of the neck unsized.

I found article in Handloader Magazine for the 416Taylor where they used IMR3031 (which was available to me), compared volumes and adjusted accordingly for the WSM case. Speer 350gr Hotcores w/55gr and Hornady 400gr SN w/54gr of IMR3031. No velocity data available but absolutely no pressure signs w/ my gun and not compressed at all at 2.860” total cartridge length.

 

[BlueFlyer]

. Speer 350gr Hotcores w/55gr and Hornady 400gr SN w/54gr of IMR3031

Thanks for the info, I need to get the stock done so I can start to get into the load development.

 

[BlueFlyer]

After wasting a day trying to fix my horizontal bandsaw (gone to heaven), I finally fitted the cross bolts.
I made up a holding jig to make sure it stayed straight and square.

The cross bolt OD is 1/4" and the OD of the screw head is 11.0mm and and a depth of 3.8mm. I reground an 11mm drill to machine the flat bottom of the counter sink.

The position of the screw heads was consistent from LH & RH sides, confirming it was setup square.

Fitting a flat headed screw on a curved surface means that at a point the head is flush with the wood and the opposite side the screw head is proud. I made the mistake of watching a video on making a Rigby rifle, they filed the surface of the screw to match the wood. The Talley screws are hardened so there is no possibility to file them to match the wood.

I think I have 2 options:
1. very careful application of the die grinder.
2. machine the heads to a dome profile as a compromise.

Any other suggestions or preferences?

Next question - do you glue in the crossbolts or just torque them in place?

Final photo of my shadow, who supervises all activities in the shed.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Why in gawd's name would they harden those caps? I suggest removing the temper.

Site is f>*kd up again today and freezing! The recent revamp has some glitches. Ugh!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Are your crossbolts too long? I used Winchester crossbolts and decided to significantly modify them. Didn't like the thickness of the tube.

This is from the factory.

This is modified with threaded rod.

The jig I built to drill the crossbolts on Shopsmith. I used forstner bit to countersink cap holes first. I drilled from both sides. Didn't trust the jig. One hole met perfectly in the middle and the other was off only slightly. Easily remedied.

Are those Talley crossbolts supposed to be flush to the wood? I suspect they are intended to be countersunk slightly below the wood surface. I went with Winchester to avoid all that mess with filling and flushing. Also, I wanted to tighten them if needed in the future due to swelling or shrinking. Also can remove them to refinish the wood.

Where the crossbolts breached the inletting I simply bedded with JB Weld when doing the final bedding of the action. Coated them well with silicone spray and tapped them out before the bedding was completely set. Then recoated with release agent and screwed back together.

 

[BlueFlyer]

Are those Talley crossbolts supposed to be flush to the wood? I suspect they are intended to be countersunk slightly below the wood surface.

I think you are correct. I was just looking at the Remington 798 in 458WM and it looks to have the Talley cross bolts and they are recessed. Stock is a bit more slab sided, so there is less contours than the stock I have.

The Talley crossbolt length is fine. I just need to recess the screw heads deeper.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I made my own cross bolts and screwed them into the stock tightly then shaped them to the stock. When removed I marked each head as to where it went and then blued them. When screwed back in they are flush to the curved surface.
Gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Here's the jig I built to drill the hole for steel rod through stock wrist.

The extra long drill bit is in the jig and ready for hand drill. Should have shortened the drill shank. Did not need to have it that long. The guide hole in 2x4 was drilled using the Shopsmith's angle adjustable table.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

having problems with the pic
Gumpy

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I think you are correct. I was just looking at the Remington 798 in 458WM and it looks to have the Talley cross bolts and they are recessed. Stock is a bit more slab sided, so there is less contours than the stock I have.
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The Talley crossbolt length is fine. I just need to recess the screw heads deeper.

Gad, look at the thickness of the trigger guard. What's up with that? Aluminum? Or (shudder) plastic?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

having problems with the pic
Gumpy

Site is a mess today. I'll post again.

 

[BlueFlyer]

I made my own cross bolts and screwed them into the stock tightly then shaped them to the stock.

Grumpy - I agree, if they are profiled to match the contour of the stock then it is a far better standard of finish. When you made yours, did you use mild steel or a grade that could be heat treated to toughen them up. If they are soft I am worried about either stripping or shearing them.

 

[Rule 303]

I like the way the Grumpy one has done his cross bolts. Certainly torque them in do not glue, you never know when you might want to or need to take them out.

All the Talley type cross bolts I have seen sit below the surface of the stock.

I have to take my hat off to you blokes with your skills and knowledge in metal and wood working. My efforts are akin to a dyslexic gorilla with sledge hammer and masonry chisel.