.416 Remington vs .458 Lott

[CTDolan]

I'd pick the Win because I had 2 Ruger RSM II's and they just did not fit me. and had weird stock and felt bulky. I like slimmer rifles.

Agreed, they are on the bulky side and the stock profile does lack elegance. They’re still one hell of a lot of rifle for he money, though.

 

[fourfive8]

As to a belt or not for smooth action?? Mostly wive's tales, and yarns around the keyboard about feeding issues. All cartridges need some taper for ease of extraction- especially so for higher pressure rounds and or higher ambient temperature conditions causing higher pressures. That is the primary purpose for the taper. The taper may provide some small benefit to chambering... but it is very small compared to other variables. The overriding metric for inherently smooth feeding is the length vs diameter of the cartridge coupled with, to a lesser degree, the sharpness of the shoulder/amount of overbore of the design. The short, really fat and overbore cartridges are the ones that are inherently bad actors for smooth chambering from magazine... has nothing to do with a belt or not or amount of taper for that matter... and most of those are belt-less anyway. For absolute headspace control and surety of firing for DG cartridge- I'll stick with a belted (or rimmed design depending on action type).

For what it's worth the grittiest most balky action I ever cycled on a so-called DG rifle was a new CZ in 375 HH. I know, I know just a single anecdote but then again it makes one wonder why? I have also noticed that CZs while not normally balky are almost always a little gritty when new. The smoothest new bolt gun I ever cycled was a 2005 New Haven Winchester 70 in 416 Rem. I have that rifle. The other DG rifle that I have most experience shooting is a 450 Watts on a Montana 99 action. Both the 416 and the 450 will smoothly and reliably cycle empty rounds out of the magazine as fast as I can crank the bolt. Both rounds are belted and both have much less body taper than something like a 375 or 300 HH. Hmm- how can that be?

 

[ActionBob]

Either would be a fine choice but I would take a hybrid if you can’t chose. The Ruger RSM in a 416 Rigby, you get your 416 and a RSM and in a classic cartridge! Nothing wrong with a M70, love all of mine except the 458 push feed I own, but the RSM in 416 is hard to beat for several times the money IMO!
Cheers,
Cody

This is the best advice!.. IMO, and owning them in 4 chamberings, the I feel the RSM was designed around the 416 Rigby and not only is very capable of handling this fat cartridge very well, but shoots it extremely accurately. AND it is a very interesting, historic, and readily identifiable with Africa cartridge. Perfect next step from 375 H&H for both a hunting and "just because" rifle.... Problem is after you get it, you're very likely to end up taking it on your buffalo hunt instead of the 375

However if you want that big thump, go with the 458 Lott. Or hold out for a 505 Gibbs I'm told there were 5 of them made by a shop in Alaska... that's where mine came from.

Oh and if you decide you really want a M70.... there is the 470 Capstick Big 5 model, also very interesting

 

[sierraone]

As usual, I agree fully with @ActionBob and @Bullthrower338. I now have a wrench to throw into Bob's gears about the M70 in .470 Capstick.

About a month ago I was going through GunBroker looking for a RSM or M70 that I could not do without. There were two M70 Big 5 .470 Capsticks for sale by the same owner. Both rifles were listed for considerably less than one might expect to pay. The owner gave a detailed explanation below the listing. To briefly paraphrase what he stated is as follow:
When Winchester made the Capstick rifles, the bores were made unintentionally slightly larger than Capstick rounds bullets. Even though the mistake was only about 4 or 5 hundredths, (?), it greatly affected accuracy. He stated that the only way to fix this was to either have bullets custom made for the individual rifle, or to have a new barrel made with the correct bore. He commented that if you were interested in acquiring the rifle for collector purposes only, this is obviously not a concern, but as a hunting rifle, you would have additional cost one way or the other after buying it.
This is the first time I had heard of such a situation, but then again I have never known anyone that owned a M70 Big Five in .470 Capstick caliber.
Is this news to you also, or just old news that I have missed?

 

[peras]

You have a .375 which you are surely comfortable with. So if it is just for the heck of it I would go up to the Lott a real big bore. You will get used to it.

 

[AZDAVE]

Since you have a decent mid bore in the 375, but don't have a 416 or 458 get both Shoot the 416 allot then when you get use to the recoil move up to the 458. the jump from 375 to 458 is sizeable difference in the recoil department. There are many gun stores and home safes that have many 458 class rifles with less than a box of ammo through them.. I have bought at least 10 big bores from guys that exceeded their recoil tolerance.

 

[Bullthrower338]

As usual, I agree fully with @ActionBob and @Bullthrower338. I now have a wrench to throw into Bob's gears about the M70 in .470 Capstick.

About a month ago I was going through GunBroker looking for a RSM or M70 that I could not do without. There were two M70 Big 5 .470 Capsticks for sale by the same owner. Both rifles were listed for considerably less than one might expect to pay. The owner gave a detailed explanation below the listing. To briefly paraphrase what he stated is as follow:
When Winchester made the Capstick rifles, the bores were made unintentionally slightly larger than Capstick rounds bullets. Even though the mistake was only about 4 or 5 hundredths, (?), it greatly affected accuracy. He stated that the only way to fix this was to either have bullets custom made for the individual rifle, or to have a new barrel made with the correct bore. He commented that if you were interested in acquiring the rifle for collector purposes only, this is obviously not a concern, but as a hunting rifle, you would have additional cost one way or the other after buying it.
This is the first time I had heard of such a situation, but then again I have never known anyone that owned a M70 Big Five in .470 Capstick caliber.
Is this news to you also, or just old news that I have missed?

4 or 5/100ths would be like sleeping with one of the Kardashian’s, throwing the proverbial hotdog down the hallway! Lmao I believe it was 3/1000 overbore, bore size should be .474 and the barrels are supposedly .477. If accuracy is affected much, which I seriously doubt that it would at the ranges that the .470 Capstick was intended for, custom sized bullets aren’t that big of an expense. Hawk, CEB and plenty other mono bullet manufacturers could surely set you up. I think you should get one of them so you can bring it over next time you are here so I can play with it! Lol. I’ve always been interested in the cartridge, just never pulled the trigger, figuratively or actually. I almost bought an A-Square chambered in it once but passed, the A-Square rifles did have .474 tubes on them.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[flat8]

4 or 5/100ths would be like sleeping with one of the Kardashian’s, throwing the proverbial hotdog down the hallway! Lmao I believe it was 3/1000 overbore, bore size should be .474 and the barrels are supposedly .477. If accuracy is affected much, which I seriously doubt that it would at the ranges that the .470 Capstick was intended for, custom sized bullets aren’t that big of an expense. Hawk, CEB and plenty other mono bullet manufacturers could surely set you up. I think you should get one of them so you can bring it over next time you are here so I can play with it! Lol. I’ve always been interested in the cartridge, just never pulled the trigger, figuratively or actually. I almost bought an A-Square chambered in it once but passed, the A-Square rifles did have .474 tubes on them.
Cheers,
Cody

That seller on GB still has two of them for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/727935680

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/727935859

 

[Bullthrower338]

That seller on GB still has two of them for sale.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/727935680

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/727935859

Great price on them! They are beautiful rifles.

 

[cagkt3]

4 or 5/100ths would be like sleeping with one of the Kardashian’s, throwing the proverbial hotdog down the hallway!

 

[sierraone]

4 or 5/100ths would be like sleeping with one of the Kardashian’s, throwing the proverbial hotdog down the hallway! Lmao I believe it was 3/1000 overbore, bore size should be .474 and the barrels are supposedly .477. If accuracy is affected much, which I seriously doubt that it would at the ranges that the .470 Capstick was intended for, custom sized bullets aren’t that big of an expense. Hawk, CEB and plenty other mono bullet manufacturers could surely set you up. I think you should get one of them so you can bring it over next time you are here so I can play with it! Lol. I’ve always been interested in the cartridge, just never pulled the trigger, figuratively or actually. I almost bought an A-Square chambered in it once but passed, the A-Square rifles did have .474 tubes on them.
Cheers,
Cody

There you go, just log in below and make your bid! Highly likely you will fire a couple of rounds, watch the bullets bounce around on your back 20, place the rifle in one of your safes, and forget you ever owned it........until one day when you least expect it, Tim reminds you....Whatever happened to that?

 

[Bullthrower338]

There you go, just log in below and make your bid! Highly likely you will fire a couple of rounds, watch the bullets bounce around on your back 20, place the rifle in one of your safes, and forget you ever owned it........until one day when you least expect it, Tim reminds you....Whatever happened to that?

LMAO, prolly exactly how it would go down, except months of load development, get it perfect and then put it away. I’m actually in the middle of one of those what happened to that deals. Got invited on a goose hunt next month and can’t remember where the hell my SP10 is at, all I’m sure of it isn’t in Texas! Might have to get me another one for now!

 

[neckdeep]

Since we are talking about GB and the Lott

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/726622552

 

[matt85]

Since we are talking about GB and the Lott

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/726622552

pass on that one, some jerk cut holes in the barrel at the muzzle.

-matt

 

[enysse]

Unless I was going to hunt elephant, I would stick to the .416 Rem.
The .458 Lott is a LOT of gun! Too much for most people.

 

[ActionBob]

Wow that is a great price on the M70 Big 5 Capsticks. If I didn't all ready have one, I'd be buying one.

Haven't looked in detail, but especially if they have the original box and letter.

But one and take it on a rhino hunt

 

[flat8]

.458 Lott is on the way. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/727909127

I've been watching this one on GB for awhile, and they lowered the price on it for this past auction.

I doubt I'll ever hunt with it - a .375 H&H will do the trick on anything I have ever or do plan to hunt. But a gun like this in the safe is just too good to pass on.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

Congratulations!
//Gus

 

[Saul]

Great purchase! A truly beautiful rifle in a truly amazing cartridge.

 

[CTDolan]

.458 Lott is on the way. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/727909127

I've been watching this one on GB for awhile, and they lowered the price on it for this past auction.

I doubt I'll ever hunt with it - a .375 H&H will do the trick on anything I have ever or do plan to hunt. But a gun like this in the safe is just too good to pass on.

View attachment 211964

That is a crazy good price for a Ruger RSM!!!