.416 Remington vs .458 Lott

[flat8]

I know topics like this have been beaten to death, but what are the forums thoughts on a Model 70 Classic Super Grade (1994, New Haven) in .416 Remington vs. a Ruger Mark II in 458 Lott?

 

[flat8]

I know topics like this have been beaten to death, but what are the forums thoughts on a Model 70 Classic Super Grade (1994, New Haven) in .416 Remington vs. a Ruger Mark II in 458 Lott?

Purpose of the gun is 'just because'. I'm planning on a buff hunt in 2019 or maybe 2018, but I'm 90+ percent on using a .375 H&H for that.

 

[Lbarr265]

That’s the best reason for gun! I don’t have experience with either cartridge but I am a fan of Winchester model 70 super grade, that would be my vote

 

[ActionBob]

I have a 416 rem mag, m70 I hunted buff and elephant with. Great client elephant gun imo because it is light weight to carry many miles. Accurate, great energy for the bullet weight, and easy to feed.

However I also have a collection of Ruger Mark II RSM rifles and love them. Especially the customized one in 505 Gibbs which laid out a buffalo fantastically.

For your stated purpose, get the Ruger... it is much more interesting. In fact, find one with the elephant on the floor plate And if you come across one in 375 with the lion... alert me immediately as I need it to complete my collection.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

They are both more than adequate for Cape Buffalo. There is no doubt that the Lott has the superior knock down power in the event of a charge, but this should not be the reason for choosing the Lott over the Rem, especially as the hunter as opposed to being the PH.
Since you already have the 375, that I pressume you are comfortable with, I would just stick to that. First shot placement is crucial. The rest, as they say is history.

 

[Waterbuck2008]

I have a couple .375's, and would go for the Ruger in .458 Lott, since it's purely a "just because" purchase. .416 Rem is a fine clambering, but not as neat of a conversation piece, in my opinion.

 

[Ray B]

Having had both the Ruger M77 and the Winchester M70, I much prefer the Winchester. I would get neither the 416 Rem nor the 458 Lott, (favoring a non-belted cartridge) but then that isn't a listed option.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

If the Winchester was a pre64 action, I would say Winchester, otherwise I would pick the Ruger. The 458Lott will give you the option of shooting cheaper 458 Win Mag ammo, as well as a larger selection of bullet weights.

 

[GuttormG]

Use the 375 and shot an extra buffalo...

 

[fourfive8]

My preference would be the 416 Rem Win 70 for hunting. I have one so I am admittedly biased. However I've also owned and used a 375 HH in Win 70. And I own and use the close cousin to the Lott- a 450 Watts. The 45 cals in that category are more gun than the 416, and you'll notice it when shooting and they come closer to being a backup/stopper. And the 416 is more gun than the 375.

I'd get the 416 as primary buff hunter and one of the big 45s just because . Interestingly, the recoil of the Win 70 375 off the bench seemed just as sharp as the 416. And in a similar rifle, the Lott or comparable caliber feels assuredly sharper than either a 375 or 416.

I base all this subjective recoil comparison among the 375, 416 and 458 cals on more or less standard weight and config bolt action rifles with scopes each weighing about 9.5 pounds. The ammo is also standard full pressure hunting loads/bullets- 300 gr for the 375, 400 gr for the 416 and 480 gr for the 458. I cannot notice a difference in recoil between 480 gr and 500 gr loads in the 458 (450 Watts). I'm not a Ruger nut so no opinion on that.

 

[neckdeep]

I would try the 416 Rem. I have been testing a custom pre 64 Win Model 70 in 416 Rem and it's about all I can handle for recoil. I would think that Lott would just increase the punishment. If you are not recoil sensitive maybe the Lott would be fine?

 

[matt85]

the Winchester is a superior rifle compared to the Ruger. I have shot both in a variety of chambering's and would take the Winchester any day.

both cartridges are great for buffalo. my choice would be 2 rifles, one in each cartridge!

-matt

 

[England]

You might look for a lightly used Kimber Caprivi, and could get it in either .416 Rem or .458 Lott. I have a pair in .375 and .458 and very much like them. If you are a handloader, you have the option to load the Lott to your level of comfort. Mine are going to Zim in June, and the plan is to use the .458 on a Cape buffalo and the .375 for anything else. That also lets me have a backup if the airlines crunch a rifle or disaster strikes.

 

[CTDolan]

The Ruger is nothing to sneeze at (and neither is the Lott!).

http://www.morrisonarms.com/2014/09/the-ruger-safari-magnum-rsm-a-tribute-to-an-old-friend/

The new Winchester M70 rifles haven’t impressed me all that much. Maybe it’s just been a case of bad luck (as every one I’ve seen/handled/shot over the last few years has, in some way or another, had a problem).

 

[Buckdog]

I don't own a 458 lott but have shot several of them several times and all I can say is the Lott is ALOT OF RECOIL! why I don't own one much rather shoot a 416 of a 450NE any day all day. I suggest you shoot a 458 Lott and make your own decision.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Either would be a fine choice but I would take a hybrid if you can’t chose. The Ruger RSM in a 416 Rigby, you get your 416 and a RSM and in a classic cartridge! Nothing wrong with a M70, love all of mine except the 458 push feed I own, but the RSM in 416 is hard to beat for several times the money IMO!
Cheers,
Cody

 

[matt85]

didn't have time to say more in my last post.

the 458 Lott is a more interesting cartridge if your buying a heavy rifle just for the sake of having one. however, the 458 Lott is NOT a cartridge for a novice big bore shooter and if you do not have much experience with such cartridges then I recommend either starting with the 416 or have someone to coach you when you shoot the 458 for the first time.

if your looking for a good 458 Lott I would suggest buying a CZ 550 and sending it to AHR for his upgrade package. this will yield an excellent rifle without breaking the bank.

the Winchester M70 in 416 RM is an OUTSTANDING medium/heavy rifle for general use on PG and DG. I have been using one for the last few years and its my "go to" rifle for large game. the pig in my avatar has a 416 RM cartridge on his nose. although for really big angry stuff I use a 505/500.

-matt

 

[TOBY458]

I currently own 2 rifles in 375 h&h and 2 rifles in 416 Rem and 416 Ruger. I have owned several 458 Win Mag rifles and a 470 NE Double rifle. I also have a Marlin Guide gun in 45/70.
I feel like the 458 Rifles do recoil more than the 416s. The worst I felt was a Remington 798 Mauser in 458 win. Due to it's light weight, it was brutal. The little 7lb Marlin 45/70 is also brutal with 400 grain bullets @ 1900fps.
I have pretty much settled on the 416s for acceptable recoil and enough horsepower for most any situation a hunter would run into. But, I, like you, have found little to complain about with the good ole 375.

 

[IvW]

I would stick to the 375 H&H, work up some loads with 350gr bullets for your buffalo hunt. Practice, practice, practice. Make the first shot count, that is all you need.
Use the money to hunt more animals instead of another rifle.
I never liked a belt on a straight walled case when it comes to DG hunting.

 

[Milan]

I'd pick the Win because I had 2 Ruger RSM II's and they just did not fit me. and had weird stock and felt bulky. I like slimmer rifles.