.416 Rem Mag: Information For Building A Budget Big-Game Rifle ( 416 Remington Magnum )

[Ontario Hunter]

Converting REM 700 extractor to Sako or M16 style extractor will change the angle of ejection. That type extractor is added to edge of bolt lug. The extractor works in opposition to the ejector plunger that is at a fixed location in the bolt face. The effect of that change is a higher angle of ejection where spent cases will likely be ejected into scope or scope mount. Approach that modification with eyes open.

Many are going to be hesitant to offer advice in this thread. The OP seems “sensitive” to any criticism and seems to be looking for ideas that agree with his. I tend to agree with @Uncontrolled_round_feed on this one so will leave it at that.

There's a big difference between "criticism" and "suggestion." I have had the stuffed shirts on this site call my 404 project homemade junk and unreliable without ever handling it. The bolt on this rifle will fall open with just the force of gravity. I have posted videos of me rapidly cycling a full magazine and snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber. Flawless. I posted images of the fifty yard target with bullets literally landing on top of each other. But hey, it's still junk because it's military surplus, wears used iron sights and a new scope that doesn't cost as much as a good used car, and sits in a secondhand stock. But my "junk" looks very nice and will kill buffalo just as dead as any $20K Rigby. I'm sure if I ever decided to sell it, I could easily get my money out of it and then some. Once I finish the cherrywood case I'm sure the "then some" would be substantial. The net profit realized from knowledge gained and satisfaction from successfully finishing a project that few have the courage to tackle, especially the pampered shorts-and-double-gun crew, is priceless. I say "lack the courage" because that is usually the obstacle. I'm no gunsmith or machinist. No one apprenticed me. My equipment is relatively primitive. And I'm no genius (not quite anyway). But I've never given up on learning ... or anything else. When I die, which is on the horizon, I want to leave that for my grandkids. Not the gun ... just have the courage to challenge and learn.

Hopefully, a few of us here with a bit of experience can help this fella make his project work. It's not the way I would have started but that's fine. If he'd simply done it the way I did then I wouldn't be learning anything either.

On the other hand, it is always beneficial to listen to advice. And seek it before plunging ahead. I would have strongly advised against the hardwood stock before taking that plunge. Those are not made for thumper calibers. But let's see if we can make it work. It's a challenge to be met with courage and maybe some extra thinking outside the box. Speaking of box, I don't think the OP realizes what's all involved in making a project like this cycle properly. Does he know about Paul Mauser's cosine formula for determining magazine dimensions? Just because he has a magnum action (presumably) does not mean the feeding rails and follower will automatically cycle any and all magnum cartridges. I will be very surprised if these parts don't have to be manually modified. Just about anything else undertaken in the build project that goes haywire can be corrected or simply replaced and start over. Screw up the feeding rails and the action is scrap metal. Fixing the rails to start over would require expert welding and machining that would cost four times what the action is worth. Installing the crossbolts is also a bit tricky but at least he's got a stock he can afford to write off if his first attempt fails. I will say if he doesn't at least have a drill press, he should get one. This is not something I would attempt with a hand drill. Even a conventional drill press will be tricky to set up. I drilled my crossbolt holes using a Shopsmith set up as horizontal drill press. A machining lathe could be made to work if available. He will need a forster bit the size of the crossbolt head (be aware those crossbolts are often as not metric). Usually cheaper to buy a whole set of Ryobi forster bits than a single high quality bit. Buy the set. The bit you need will easily hold up through this project. You will need a Dremel tool and a variety of carving and grinding bits. The drum sander function is invaluable. Also, I would advise buying the the cable carving extension for Dremel. Hang the tool overhead and use the bits attached to end of cable. Invaluable! Dremel is perhaps my most used tool for everything. I have both the genuine Dremel and a knockoff from ToolTown. The knockoff is TEN times better quality tool. Gun Butler is a very affordable gun vice. Works just as well as the fancy ones. You will need it for this project. Period!

I'm curious about the extractor business. Does Savage and Remington Model 700 employ the same design extractors? If the extractor does need to be changed, I would wait till the end.

 

[Country-Folk]

Converting REM 700 extractor to Sako or M16 style extractor will change the angle of ejection. That type extractor is added to edge of bolt lug. The extractor works in opposition to the ejector plunger that is at a fixed location in the bolt face. The effect of that change is a higher angle of ejection where spent cases will likely be ejected into scope or scope mount. Approach that modification with eyes open.

Many are going to be hesitant to offer advice in this thread. The OP seems “sensitive” to any criticism and seems to be looking for ideas that agree with his. I tend to agree with @Uncontrolled_round_feed on this one so will leave it at that.

and so now it's time for you to start using common sense ...
A person isn't being sensitive to criticism, as you tried to manipulate it to being, when the criticism is negative and not constructive ... you dont go around calling someone a kid and talking down to them, and then people like you act like someone should then be thankful for or otherwise be accepting of that person's 'criticism'

It's also common sense that I and no one else needs told to use a completely different manufacture after the person already made the responsible decision to use the Savage 110 for the foundation of the build after having been given the suggestion for it AND after his local gunsmithS (plural which means more than just one) confirmed the safe, reliable, and affordable route of building the rifle with a Savage 110

Just to make sure its clear and so everyone can see what was said without having to go back through to search the posts,
Uncontrolled_Round-Feed's initial comment to me
"You seem like a good kid so please PM me and I’ll happily talk to you and maybe even gift you some shit I have"

and then instead of him walking away to find someone else to target with his trolling behavior, he said "Maybe not a good kid. Just another BFE bumpkin trying to cobble together a piece of junk from internet spare parts and bitterness from having no money. Original. Good luck"

Furthermore, I'm justifiably not here to listen to those people who think they know more than what gunsmiths had already advised me with.
All too often the forums are a magnet for the keyboard warriors out there who largely build their information from other mere talkers versus those who have direct experience and ALSO showing proof of that experience for having done the subject matter which is being discussed.
I would certainly choose to follow the information from actual certified gunsmiths with many years of experience, than to listen to those people on here who are mainly good at talking but then fall quite short of backing up that talk with much of anything other than more talk.

With that being said, myself and I also know its others who dont want anyone here if theyre not going to legitimately try being helpful by providing information that directly progresses this particular build for using a Savage 110 for a .416 Rem Mag.
If people dont want to help do that, they can easily walk away and go check out another thread where they can try feeding their need for attention through thinking they know more then a gunsmith with many years of experience

Now lets move on, right
but if anyone continues wanting to troll or support the trolls who come in here instead of legitimately being beneficial here, I can only report those people in hopes that the site's moderator will take appropriate actions on those who go around other people's thread whereby belittlling them, trying to start arguements instead of walking away, and otherwise harassing

 

[Country-Folk]

Following with interest.

I see nothing wrong with any project build as long as the end product is safe and reliable. Often projects like this are for fun and to learn from the process. What we can afford has nothing to do with it, the point is entertainment during the winter months, and to learn about gunsmithing. In a nutshell this is what the OP stated.

We've all known guys that had more money than they knew what to do with that could drop cash on a Bugatti, Lotus or Ferrari, but noooo, they spend their spare time in a garage wrenching on a 1969 Chevy Chevelle. If that's what makes the man happy, I say have at it.

Thank you for the support ... you definitely made very good points

 

[Country-Folk]

There's a big difference between "criticism" and "suggestion." I have had the stuffed shirts on this site call my 404 project homemade junk and unreliable without ever handling it. The bolt on this rifle will fall open with just the force of gravity. I have posted videos of me rapidly cycling a full magazine and snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber. Flawless. I posted images of the fifty yard target with bullets literally landing on top of each other. But hey, it's still junk because it's military surplus, wears used iron sights and a new scope that doesn't cost as much as a good used car, and sits in a secondhand stock. But my "junk" looks very nice and will kill buffalo just as dead as any $20K Rigby. I'm sure if I ever decided to sell it, I could easily get my money out of it and then some. Once I finish the cherrywood case I'm sure the "then some" would be substantial. The net profit realized from knowledge gained and satisfaction from successfully finishing a project that few have the courage to tackle, especially the pampered shorts-and-double-gun crew, is priceless. I say "lack the courage" because that is usually the obstacle. I'm no gunsmith or machinist. No one apprenticed me. My equipment is relatively primitive. And I'm no genius (not quite anyway). But I've never given up on learning ... or anything else. When I die, which is on the horizon, I want to leave that for my grandkids. Not the gun ... just have the courage to challenge and learn.

Hopefully, a few of us here with a bit of experience can help this fella make his project work. It's not the way I would have started but that's fine. If he'd simply done it the way I did then I wouldn't be learning anything either.

On the other hand, it is always beneficial to listen to advice. And seek it before plunging ahead. I would have strongly advised against the hardwood stock before taking that plunge. Those are not made for thumper calibers. But let's see if we can make it work. It's a challenge to be met with courage and maybe some extra thinking outside the box. Speaking of box, I don't think the OP realizes what's all involved in making a project like this cycle properly. Does he know about Paul Mauser's cosine formula for determining magazine dimensions? Just because he has a magnum action (presumably) does not mean the feeding rails and follower will automatically cycle any and all magnum cartridges. I will be very surprised if these parts don't have to be manually modified. Just about anything else undertaken in the build project that goes haywire can be corrected or simply replaced and start over. Screw up the feeding rails and the action is scrap metal. Fixing the rails to start over would require expert welding and machining that would cost four times what the action is worth. Installing the crossbolts is also a bit tricky but at least he's got a stock he can afford to write off if his first attempt fails. I will say if he doesn't at least have a drill press, he should get one. This is not something I would attempt with a hand drill. Even a conventional drill press will be tricky to set up. I drilled my crossbolt holes using a Shopsmith set up as horizontal drill press. A machining lathe could be made to work if available. He will need a forster bit the size of the crossbolt head (be aware those crossbolts are often as not metric). Usually cheaper to buy a whole set of Ryobi forster bits than a single high quality bit. Buy the set. The bit you need will easily hold up through this project. You will need a Dremel tool and a variety of carving and grinding bits. The drum sander function is invaluable. Also, I would advise buying the the cable carving extension for Dremel. Hang the tool overhead and use the bits attached to end of cable. Invaluable! Dremel is perhaps my most used tool for everything. I have both the genuine Dremel and a knockoff from ToolTown. The knockoff is TEN times better quality tool. Gun Butler is a very affordable gun vice. Works just as well as the fancy ones. You will need it for this project. Period!

I'm curious about the extractor business. Does Savage and Remington Model 700 employ the same design extractors? If the extractor does need to be changed, I would wait till the end.

Thanks for the support and I'm looking forward to read more of your comment.... I glanced through it and seen something about the differences between Remington and Savage extractors

Will get back to reading it a little later this after noon .... grrrrr I'm having to call our USPS (United States Postal Service) to file a complaint for what's again looking like another incident of them losing my package, and this is the package that has my stock in it and was supposed to be delivered last Saturday

 

[Country-Folk]

There's a big difference between "criticism" and "suggestion." I have had the stuffed shirts on this site call my 404 project homemade junk and unreliable without ever handling it. The bolt on this rifle will fall open with just the force of gravity. I have posted videos of me rapidly cycling a full magazine and snapping over on cartridges dropped in the chamber. Flawless. I posted images of the fifty yard target with bullets literally landing on top of each other. But hey, it's still junk because it's military surplus, wears used iron sights and a new scope that doesn't cost as much as a good used car, and sits in a secondhand stock. But my "junk" looks very nice and will kill buffalo just as dead as any $20K Rigby. I'm sure if I ever decided to sell it, I could easily get my money out of it and then some. Once I finish the cherrywood case I'm sure the "then some" would be substantial. The net profit realized from knowledge gained and satisfaction from successfully finishing a project that few have the courage to tackle, especially the pampered shorts-and-double-gun crew, is priceless. I say "lack the courage" because that is usually the obstacle. I'm no gunsmith or machinist. No one apprenticed me. My equipment is relatively primitive. And I'm no genius (not quite anyway). But I've never given up on learning ... or anything else. When I die, which is on the horizon, I want to leave that for my grandkids. Not the gun ... just have the courage to challenge and learn.

Hopefully, a few of us here with a bit of experience can help this fella make his project work. It's not the way I would have started but that's fine. If he'd simply done it the way I did then I wouldn't be learning anything either.

On the other hand, it is always beneficial to listen to advice. And seek it before plunging ahead. I would have strongly advised against the hardwood stock before taking that plunge. Those are not made for thumper calibers. But let's see if we can make it work. It's a challenge to be met with courage and maybe some extra thinking outside the box. Speaking of box, I don't think the OP realizes what's all involved in making a project like this cycle properly. Does he know about Paul Mauser's cosine formula for determining magazine dimensions? Just because he has a magnum action (presumably) does not mean the feeding rails and follower will automatically cycle any and all magnum cartridges. I will be very surprised if these parts don't have to be manually modified. Just about anything else undertaken in the build project that goes haywire can be corrected or simply replaced and start over. Screw up the feeding rails and the action is scrap metal. Fixing the rails to start over would require expert welding and machining that would cost four times what the action is worth. Installing the crossbolts is also a bit tricky but at least he's got a stock he can afford to write off if his first attempt fails. I will say if he doesn't at least have a drill press, he should get one. This is not something I would attempt with a hand drill. Even a conventional drill press will be tricky to set up. I drilled my crossbolt holes using a Shopsmith set up as horizontal drill press. A machining lathe could be made to work if available. He will need a forster bit the size of the crossbolt head (be aware those crossbolts are often as not metric). Usually cheaper to buy a whole set of Ryobi forster bits than a single high quality bit. Buy the set. The bit you need will easily hold up through this project. You will need a Dremel tool and a variety of carving and grinding bits. The drum sander function is invaluable. Also, I would advise buying the the cable carving extension for Dremel. Hang the tool overhead and use the bits attached to end of cable. Invaluable! Dremel is perhaps my most used tool for everything. I have both the genuine Dremel and a knockoff from ToolTown. The knockoff is TEN times better quality tool. Gun Butler is a very affordable gun vice. Works just as well as the fancy ones. You will need it for this project. Period!

I'm curious about the extractor business. Does Savage and Remington Model 700 employ the same design extractors? If the extractor does need to be changed, I would wait till the end.

Very wholesome words from you. You're definitely a benefit here to me and hopefully others who may read this to help them on their own Savage build for a big bore caliber

Concerning the drilling needed for the stock's cross bolts:
I certainly dont want to wing it with a hand drill... although this is not going to be a show piece, I still want the gun looking and functioning as nice as possible when I'm finished
Not sure if you remember in my previous thread for building this 416 Rem Mag, I was saying that my dad is a well-experienced machinist of nearly 51 years at Timet Metals where they produce titanium for companies such as Boeing.
He has a lathe and milling machine set up in his shop which will make a lot of the steps easier and save money from if having the gunsmith do it.
My dad and me will be taking notes from the jig you already showed and any more which you used including braces/clamps for your parts while working on them ... when it comes to vice mounts and such, the only direct experience I have is with my pistol's receivers and Colt AR-15 whereby having the vice clamps for the receiver and for the magazine well

Yes, I already have the dremel with a favorable variety of bits, and also have the flexible extension for the bits.
I can see how having the dremel mounted in such a way that the flex wand would be hanging down toward the job, thus will provide an easier process whereby the flex wand can be maneuvered around with more freedom versus if it was on the workbench and the user having to fight with it cause of the tension/resistance in the flex wand

About the Remington 700 and Savage 110's extractor .... I honestly dont have direct experience with either one.
In my previous thread I was mentioning how I was only repeating what I saw in other forums pertaining to the 700's bolt
... but I did take notice of your advice to wait till the end to take a close look at the functioning of the extractor on the Savage 110 bolt

 

[coreydb]

Please let us know the outcome-after you put rounds down range.

 

[coreydb]

I'm inclined to do the same myself

 

[Country-Folk]

Please let us know the outcome-after you put rounds down range.

Absolutely.
Will likely even video tape some of it and upload to youtube

"I'm inclined to do the same myself"
If you mean building a gun yourself, that's cool to hear and stop back in to let us know if you do ... would like to see how you tackle some of the steps

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Your dad has better equipment than was available to me. He may be able to help me machine a titanium firing pin for my Springfield. Model 70 Winchester bolt shroud with 3-position safety will thread onto my Springfield's bolt but a new striker/firing pin has to be fabricated.

Note the Dremel tool setup in the photo I sent of wrist reinforcement jig. On that subject, I would recommend cutting off some of the drill shaft. The longer the shaft, the more difficult to control it. You can also see the Gun Butler in that photo. Worked okay except when I needed to work on the side of rifle when mounted in the stock. You guys will figure out a better setup I'm sure.

My Winchester crossbolts have round shafts which made for much easier installation. The square shaft crossbolts require a special jig to carve out holes through the stock.

You can order a jig from Midway for cutting recoil pads. Works very slick and pretty cheap.

 

[Country-Folk]

Your dad has better equipment than was available to me. He may be able to help me machine a titanium firing pin for my Springfield. Model 70 Winchester bolt shroud with 3-position safety will thread onto my Springfield's bolt but a new striker/firing pin has to be fabricated.

Note the Dremel tool setup in the photo I sent of wrist reinforcement jig. On that subject, I would recommend cutting off some of the drill shaft. The longer the shaft, the more difficult to control it. You can also see the Gun Butler in that photo. Worked okay except when I needed to work on the side of rifle when mounted in the stock. You guys will figure out a better setup I'm sure.

My Winchester crossbolts have round shafts which made for much easier installation. The square shaft crossbolts require a special jig to carve out holes through the stock.

You can order a jig from Midway for cutting recoil pads. Works very slick and pretty cheap.

When it comes to the square-hole cross bolts, I never happened to come across those when searching the cross bolts for my build. I can only think to drill the main hole and then follow through it with a broach

Will check out MidwayUSA for the jig in the morning. I use to buy from them quite often even when their purchase prices start climbing, but I stopped going to them after their shipping costs were then being raised a bit more than many of the other sites I buy from.

Titanium firing pin?
My dad mostly works with steel and some stainless when it comes to machining parts for breakdowns at the mill.
When I need something made that we can't do at his shop and so he gotta do it at work, I usually say "Titanium, Titanium. You do love me, dont ya dad?" lol
and he just slightly nods his head saying "yeah, well, I will have to see if there is any stock laying around in the tool crib"
BUT its VERY peculiar how often there ends up not being any titanium there!
Hmmmm I think that I'm being hornswoggled, bamboozled, and maybe even scallywagged lol
So what do ya think?

So do you have the precise measurements for the firing pin and show me a diagram of it with those measurements.

 

[Papa72]

Will check out MidwayUSA for the jig in the morning. I use to buy from them quite often even when their purchase prices start climbing, but I stopped going to them after their shipping costs were then being raised a bit more than many of the other sites I buy from

PM me when you are close to the point of needing a recoil pad install. I’ll loan you my jig if you are ok with paying the shipping both ways.

 

[Country-Folk]

PM me when you are close to the point of needing a recoil pad install. I’ll loan you my jig if you are ok with paying the shipping both ways.

Thanks for the cool offer

but after seeing what the buttpad jig does, I.m initially thinking that I can possibly get around having to use it.

In the past when doing buttpads for shotguns, I would line up the butt of the stock with the pad, precisely trace around it with a scribe and not a pencil or marker, and then used a belt sander to refine the contour until reaching a near perfect fit.

However I'm going to check out youtube later on this afternoon to see if there's any videos of people using the buttpad jig .... I might learn how the jig has a significant benefit that I'm currently not seeing