416 help

[Ryanelson]

My next trip to Africa I want to take a Cape buffalo. I really want the weatherby with brake but that isn’t looking good. Ruger makes a 416 that looks good in the guide or Hawkeye. Would like some input. Don’t kill me or make it to complicated. I arrived at the 416 weatherby from someone I trusted.

 

[Berettaco]

Any of the rugers in 416 are a good option. Hawkeye, Alaskan, RSM (RSM is my fav of that group) leave the brake at home as to not deafen your PH.

 

[BeeMaa]

A .416 will sort you out properly on a DG hunt, however I'd like what other calibers you have. Most shooters have only experienced up to a .30 caliber magnum as their most potent cartridge. Moving from that to a .400+ is a major jump.

It is legal in all African countries to take Cape buffalo with a 375H&H or 375RUGER. If you have not experienced mid-bore recoil, I'd highly recommend this as a stepping stone to the .400's. Depending on how many DG hunts you plan on doing in your lifetime, you may find a .375 caliber more versatile than a .416.

As for brakes...no brakes. Your PH, tracker and rest of the hunting party will thank you. Practice with dry fire as much as possible to instill the proper technique and go to the range to confirm. This will not only save ammo and money, but your learning curve will be much faster.

Proper technique and rifle fit become more important as the caliber goes up. You can get away with a lot shooting a 22lr, but step into the realm of the big bores and you could end up scope cut, injured or develop a flinch you can't shake. Take your time and walk it up slowly.

 

[C.W. Richter]

ALL 416s deliver the same performance with 400 gr bullets. Thus ANY 416 that fits your budget should do the job. Find a nice, used CRF Rigby, Rem, Taylor or RCM (cartridge, not necessarily gun mfr.) The extra 300 fps of the Wby is simply so your shoulder can constantly remind you of the safari long after it's done (and quite possibly leave you heading home with a missed buff). 2,350-2,450 fps does everything the Wby will do, and less, in a very good way! Wby are good guns, but the DG cartridges are unnecessarily overcooked for on-paper bragging rights. I'd far rather have a pre-owned quality (older and/or custom) gun than today's typical factory lightweight POS. A lightweight DG gun is not your friend. Good luck! And, as said above do not overlook a good deal on a nice 375 (it gets all jobs done and they're a pleasure to shoot!)

 

[Hammergun]

The Weatherby gives you 300 additional fps that you don't need and you pay the recoil penalty. The ph and trackers don't appreciate the muzzle brake.

Get a 416 Rigby, Ruger or Remington that gives you 400 grains at 2400. With a rifle of appropriate weight, no brake needed.

 

[Ryanelson]

A .416 will sort you out properly on a DG hunt, however I'd like what other calibers you have. Most shooters have only experienced up to a .30 caliber magnum as their most potent cartridge. Moving from that to a .400+ is a major jump.

It is legal in all African countries to take Cape buffalo with a 375H&H or 375RUGER. If you have not experienced mid-bore recoil, I'd highly recommend this as a stepping stone to the .400's. Depending on how many DG hunts you plan on doing in your lifetime, you may find a .375 caliber more versatile than a .416.

As for brakes...no brakes. Your PH, tracker and rest of the hunting party will thank you. Practice with dry fire as much as possible to instill the proper technique and go to the range to confirm. This will not only save ammo and money, but your learning curve will be much faster.

Proper technique and rifle fit become more important as the caliber goes up. You can get away with a lot shooting a 22lr, but step into the realm of the big bores and you could end up scope cut, injured or develop a flinch you can't shake. Take your time and walk it up slowly.

I have experience with 45-70. That was initially what I was planning on using. After a lot of input I want to use a little more gun. No need to make a dangerous hunt more dangerous.

 

[Ryanelson]

The Weatherby gives you 300 additional fps that you don't need and you pay the recoil penalty. The ph and trackers don't appreciate the muzzle brake.

Get a 416 Rigby, Ruger or Remington that gives you 400 grains at 2400. With a rifle of appropriate weight, no brake needed.

Both of the Rutgers have brakes but I’m pretty sure they can be removed and a solid piece comes with them. Maybe not

 

[BeeMaa]

I have experience with 45-70. That was initially what I was planning on using. After a lot of input I want to use a little more gun. No need to make a dangerous hunt more dangerous.

Place a proper first shot and your DG hunt just got a lot more "safe". Much easier to do with a .375 than with something larger. BTW - The 375H&H 300 grain factory load will deliver more velocity and energy on target than a 45-70 handloaded to HOT.

It's your hunt, you do as you wish.

 

[BJH65]

Both of the Rutgers have brakes but I’m pretty sure they can be removed and a solid piece comes with them. Maybe not

All of the Ruger’s chambered in 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger, Guide Gun, Alaskan, African Hawkeye come with an installed muzzle brake, a weighted threaded protector (so no change of impact if sighted in with muzzle brake and a non weighted thread protector. I think they are some of the best priced CRF rifles for dangerous game presently.

 

[375Fox]

The buffalo won’t know the difference between 416 Remington, Ruger, Weatherby, or Rigby, but don’t think the Ruger is going to have staying power in the future. The 416 weatherby has almost disappeared already. 416 Ruger in a Ruger rifle would be a good Buffalo gun, but if you aren’t sure when your next buffalo hunt will be a 375 H&H or 416 Remington or 416 Rigby would be a better choice so components and factory ammo will still be around in the future. Also, you can find those cartridges in Africa if something were to happen to your ammo. You most likely will not find the others and need to borrow a rifle instead.

 

[K-man]

I own both a .416 Ruger with removable muzzle brake and several .375 H&H. The gun I pick most often is the .375. especially for buffalo. I have shot 4 buffalo in Africa and all but one with the .375. None "needed" additional shots after the first, only one got an insurance shot, the others were all dead before we walked up to them. The .375 is very versatile for other game as well, with plenty of ammo availability wherever you are. I'm not trying to talk you out of a .416, but if you are only buying one gun, make it a .375. Enjoy!!!

 

[krish]

If you are looking for some thing bigger than 375 for what ever reson, 416 is not going to be that much better. Both are mediam bore. 375 will do the job, versatile, not very expensive, ammo available everywhere. Only reson to go above 375 is normaly is for stoping a charge. If that is what you are thinking, then go with 458 winchester. Same comfort applies to 375 applies to 458 winchester. Recoil is not as bad as you may think.
My 2c.
Krish

 

[KY Hunting Guy]

I went with the 416 Remington in a Winchester CRF rifle. I had a 416 Rigby before but in a fit of stupidity sold it. I have found that the Remington is a little cheaper to shoot than the Rigby. If you look around you can find a good used one for a good price. Good luck with the decision.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

All of the Ruger’s chambered in 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger, Guide Gun, Alaskan, African Hawkeye come with an installed muzzle brake, a weighted threaded protector (so no change of impact if sighted in with muzzle brake and a non weighted thread protector. I think they are some of the best priced CRF rifles for dangerous game presently.

Not all of them are threaded. I have an Alaskan with a 23 inch barrel and it isn’t threaded. I agree with you that Rugers are a good value, particularly for left hand shooters.

 

[Robncolorado]

Ryanelson, Thats awesome you're going after buff! A few thoughts.

I have a 416 Rigby and have used it on elephant. I have used my 375 H&H on buffalo..... perfectly adequate. I've been thinking of using my 416 Rigby on buffalo, but find I'm thinking one gun for all.... which brings me back to the 375...... I can use it on all game..... simple taking one gun......

on the 416 Rigby..... should your ammo not make it, I'd bet finding 416 Rigby ammo in Africa much more likely than 416 Ruger/Weatherby etc.

I leave in 2 weeks for Mozambique for Elephant and plains game- taking a 450 NE and a 375 H&H.......

Lastly, ditch the brake...... if you get a well balanced rifle (I have Ruger RSM's) in 416 Rigby...... you dont need a brake........ if your dead set on the Weatherby- Old Craig Boddington relates the story of a test hunt in Botswana with the 416 Weatherby....... They kick the hell out of you..... use a brake, but know it wont be appreciated by your PH/Trackers

Where are you going to chase buff around?

Best,
Rob

 

[Ryanelson]

I’m actually looking at 375’s. Big bore in general are a tough find. I am going to bare foot safaris. I don’t go till June of 26. I just want to get it so I can be very comfortable with whatever gone I take.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Ryanelson, Thats awesome you're going after buff! A few thoughts.

I have a 416 Rigby and have used it on elephant. I have used my 375 H&H on buffalo..... perfectly adequate. I've been thinking of using my 416 Rigby on buffalo, but find I'm thinking one gun for all.... which brings me back to the 375...... I can use it on all game..... simple taking one gun......

on the 416 Rigby..... should your ammo not make it, I'd bet finding 416 Rigby ammo in Africa much more likely than 416 Ruger/Weatherby etc.

I leave in 2 weeks for Mozambique for Elephant and plains game- taking a 450 NE and a 375 H&H.......

Lastly, ditch the brake...... if you get a well balanced rifle (I have Ruger RSM's) in 416 Rigby...... you dont need a brake........ if your dead set on the Weatherby- Old Craig Boddington relates the story of a test hunt in Botswana with the 416 Weatherby....... They kick the hell out of you..... use a brake, but know it wont be appreciated by your PH/Trackers

Where are you going to chase buff around?

Best,
Rob

Rigby and Rem much more available in Africa (and many sage PHs keep a collection on-hand!) I didn't even bother giving Chatfield-Taylor rounds to PHs as I needed 'em more than they did. A brake is NOT required on most properly constructed 416s as it's not too much to handle. The Wby big bores need it! lol

 

[One Day...]

All has already been said, Ryanelson, so let us summarize

Muzzle brake. No. Period. Just a few shots without hearing protection, as will inevitably happen sooner or later on the hunt, from a braked .416 Wby will damage - as in destroy - your hearing (and your PH's and tracker's) for life. That is a fact.

.416 Wby
Do you intend to shoot DG at 200 yards? Your PH will not let you.

Do you intend to hunt PG with the .416 Wby. You will not do it for long.

Does energy kill? Well, you can make a point that at the precise systolic point the heart valves are open, the shockwave can travel to the brain, but you can hardly control the cardiac rhythm of your Buffalo. So forget about the shock effect. You may get it at random from the slowest .416 out there and you may not get it from the Wby. Or vice versa.

As long as Weatherby exists, they will offer .416 Wby ammo.

.416 Rem
Great cartridge. Beware the high pressure though. Many a story about .416 Rem Win 70 or Rem 700 with a stuck action in Africa in the early days. I understand that commercial ammo has been discreetly downloaded just a bit to avoid that.

This has become the #2 standard .416 in Africa after the Rigby. Ammo is here to stay.

.416 Rigby
Are you a millionaire? Go with a modern Mauser or Rigby. Best rifle. Best cartridge. Low pressure, and you can load it up to Wby level if you so whish (heck! it is the very case that Roy added a belt to).

Are you of modest means? Find yourself a used CZ550 in .416 Rigby. With just a bit of TLC you can get yourself in a couple hours, or in the hand of a competent smith, the functional equivalent of a genuine Rigby. Remember, Rigby used to build their own rifles on the CZ550 action when the big Mauser magnum was out of production.

The ammo almost disappeared, but luckily Ruger and Hornady together resurrected the caliber. Ammo will be available for the foreseeable future.

.416 Ruger
Same pressure issue as the .416 Rem. Available in a lot less rifles. Ammo availability questionable after the current fashion of "short" calibers.

Unless you are a Ruger-only type of guy, I fail to see the attraction. I personally was turned off by Ruger faking a CRF bolt on their rifles (corrected since), and continuing to fake a bolt-mounted 3 position safety (still the case), but I begrudgingly agree that Ruger are generally solid rifles.

.416 Taylor (necked down .458 Win)
Not a bad idea. But purely a custom rifle and reloader proposition. I would not shy away from a good used Taylor, built by a reliable smith with a decent name, and sold for half or a quarter of its original price.


If I were you, Ryanelson, i would look for:

1) Used Mark V in .416 Wby because this is what you want (they pop up from time to time on Gun Broker and Guns International, and there is not a big market for them so they are generally not very expensive),. Unscrew and throw away the brake.

2) Used CZ550 .416 Rigby.

3) Win 70 .416 Rem.

Example:

PS: all of this being said, .416 hits noticeably harder than .375, but it is no stopping caliber. So the real logical progression to a stopper is not so much .375 to .416, but .375 to .458 Lott. Just food for thought...

 

[Flipper Dude]

I’m actually looking at 375’s. Big bore in general are a tough find. I am going to bare foot safaris. I don’t go till June of 26. I just want to get it so I can be very comfortable with whatever gone I take.

June 26? Sheesh. I don’t buy green bananas.

 

[Berettaco]

Glad you’re looking at 375HH - it is a great choice. Find a nice win 70 and throw some good glass on it and you are all set.
I shot my first buff with a 404 Jeffery and a 400 grain aframe. Shot my second buff with a 375HH and a 300 grain aframe - same result. Plus I used the 375 for about everything else last trip - kudu, eland, sable, wildebeest, baboons, impala…. It’s a great one gun choice.