404 Ruger

[Capt_Oscar]

Send it back

Zero chance it goes back. Was quoted 1 month turn-around. Took 13 months. Had no communication despite multiple calls and even 2 certified letters. They did work I never authorized but had to pay for to get my gun back.

 

[IvW]

Get the reamer and cut it yourself

 

[Bert the Turtle]

i agree with this except there is one issue. the Ruger cartridge doesnt have a belt so its got nothing to head space off of if you lose the shoulder. cartridges like the 458 WM, 458 Lott, and 470 Capstick all head space off the belt rather then a shoulder.

if you can retain enough shoulder (not sure if its possible) with the Ruger then a 458 might be possible.

-matt

If you went 458, you’ll basically have reinvented the 460G&A.

 

[Cleveland48]

Get the reamer and cut it yourself

I agree, I would try it myself before I sent it back there.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Ordered some Hawk Bullets for the 404Ruger, 350gr was all they had in-stock at this moment. Their Round Tip (RT) is a sleeker style round nose. I was able to seat 3.293" to touch the lands. Going to load to 3.285". (Much better seating depth then the Swift A-Frame). Practice loads, I'll be looking for 2400fps with the 350gr bulllet. Adequate for anything in North America. As for the rifle, I bought the low rings, lapped for maximum holding power and mounted a Nikon Monarch Africa DG 1-4×20 scope. She's coming together.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Ended up seating 3.280" or approximately 0.015" off the lands. Put a heavy crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die using 3/4 turn. Field testing at the home range, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

She's a shooter! 50yds off the sticks. First 2 were high, second 2 were adjusted down. I'm pretty pleased so far. Hawk 350gr RT over IMR4064, virgin Hornady brass.

 

[Frederik]

Capt_Oscar,

Glad its getting together hope you can one day get the rifle reamed properly to fit normal lenghth cartridges and shoot 400gr bullets.

 

[Saul]

@Capt_Oscar what has been your experience with Hawk bullets? I have read some say that they tend to be too soft while others report high weight retention.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

@Capt_Oscar what has been your experience with Hawk bullets? I have read some say that they tend to be too soft while others report high weight retention.

Too soft is a relative thing... The copper is soft like Barnes TSX bullets. You can get whatever jacket thickness needed for your application. So, if you get a 0.025 jacket for a 300 Win Mag and shoot an Elk at near point blank range, you'll say they're too soft because it will flatten like a pancake. Conversely if you get a 0.050 jacket and shoot a 30-30Win, it will perform like a solid. Shoot a160gr RT with a jacket thickness of 0.035 in a 7mm Rem Mag and you'll get the most beautiful performance you could imagine. I love that they offer different jackets for each diameter. No bullet is a one-stop-shop in a given diameter. I have had wonderful success with Hawk. The price is competitive. To that end, I'm very happy with how they behave in my rifles.

 

[Saul]

Too soft is a relative thing... The copper is soft like Barnes TSX bullets. You can get whatever jacket thickness needed for your application. So, if you get a 0.025 jacket for a 300 Win Mag and shoot an Elk at near point blank range, you'll say they're too soft because it will flatten like a pancake. Conversely if you get a 0.050 jacket and shoot a 30-30Win, it will perform like a solid. Shoot a160gr RT with a jacket thickness of 0.035 in a 7mm Rem Mag and you'll get the most beautiful performance you could imagine. I love that they offer different jackets for each diameter. No bullet is a one-stop-shop in a given diameter. I have had wonderful success with Hawk. The price is competitive. To that end, I'm very happy with how they behave in my rifles.

That is a very nice option and I am intrigued by the fact that they make so many uncommon diameters. I want to get a 475 NE which uses 0.483 bullets instead of 0.474, but I do not want to be limited to using Woodleighs so I have been looking at Hawk.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Bullet Expansion Test: 404 Ruger with Hawk Bullets 0.423 diameter, 350gr with 0.035 jacket thickness. Shots were 2400fps at the muzzle, impact at 25yds. These are supposed to be bonded bullets but both projectiles shed their cores. They both penetrated 6 milk jugs filled with water, projectile found in the 6th jug. I need to reach out to Hawk, see what they say regarding the core separation.

 

[fourfive8]

And the saga of the wildcat continues . So Hawk claims that is a bonded bullet? Either a major QC problem or some kind of snake oil marketing or gross mis-information. That is not an issue of being too soft or hard. That is classic separation and failure! Imagine a very expensive hunt not to mention potentials if DG. I wouldn’t trust that bullet for anything other than paper.

I didn’t know Hawk even offered a bonded bullet. I know they tout the options of variable jacket thicknesses along with some kind of theory about matching malleability of jacket with core. I have no current info about Hawk bullets other than in the past I’ve shot some of their 348s out of a few Win M71s at paper because of a scarcity of bullets in that dia. Nothing to write home about on paper.

Unless the current chamber is way out of spec or over sized in some dimension, it might be possible, as @IvW posted, to DIY with a proper reamer and Tee handle.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Spoke with Hawk ballastician regarding my expansion test. They believe there was some amount of yaw that caused the bullet to expand more heavily on one side and that led to jacket separation. I'll say this, never seen Speer Hot-Cor or Federal Fusion, Nosler Accubond, or Trophy Bonded do this during any test.

They suggested maybe the bullet isnt stabilizing... It's a 1:14 twist and 350gr 0.423 bullet. Additionally, the target shows clean punch holes, no ovals (egg shapes) showing tumble. They indicated pushing the target out further may allow the additional distance to stabilize and yield better performance. I'm game! Will try at 50yds and see what we get.

 

[nztimb]

No trust in a bullet that you cant use up close if you need to

 

[Ray B]

I tried to order some bullets from Hawk about 20 years ago as part of a test that I was conducting for Handloader Digest. I forget the name of the fellow that I talked to and since it's been several years, is likely not there at present; but in the course of the conversation I said that the purpose was to make a comparative test by shooting the bullets into water filled 1 gallon milk jugs. At that point he said that his bullets weren't designed to kill milk jugs and that he was refusing to sell any of his bullets to me. I guess he figured his bullets wouldn't fair well when compared to other bullets such as were available at the time (BBC, Grizly, HT). Regardless, no Hawk bullets were tested and I haven't used any, opting for bullets that have a track record on game and individual testing.

 

[Capt_Oscar]

...and the nail in the coffin. Previously tested was 350gr 0.423 diameter, 0.035 jacket thickness - they both failed to hold together. I decided to step up in jacket thickness and retest these Hawk Bonded bullets. For the retest I started with a couple small catalogs, a little newspaper/cardboard and a piece of scrap plywood and then water jugs to slow down and capture the bullet. The results were equally poor (see photo). I collected all the scrap lead I could find and total weight was 275.4gr of a 350gr 0.423 diameter, 0.050 jacket thickness. Additionally, I was not impressed with the quality control on this batch. For me... I won't be buying anything more from Hawk.

 

[fsrmg1]

I bought some 350 grain RN in .416 that had poor quality control as well, I had to segregate out the ones with noses that didn't fill out or had voids, as your photos illustrate. On the otherhand, the ones that passed inspection would shoot close into clover leaf groups at 100 yds. I used the rejects for load development and foulers. I ordered 3-4 boxes and had about 5-6 rejects per box.

If I do order them again, I'll tell them that I wasn't happy with the quality control of the previous batch, and ask them to inspect what they ship me to ensure there are no rejects included.

 

[John Telford]

Sounds like the .423 Lucas.
it uses a 375 Ruger case necked up in to stages.
Developed by Marko Lucas to be used as a cheap PH rifle as it uses a Standard length action .

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Sounds like the .423 Lucas.
it uses a 375 Ruger case necked up in to stages.
Developed by Marko Lucas to be used as a cheap PH rifle as it uses a Standard length action .

This is exactly the same thing. I just use 416 Ruger brass as I was given some, it's the same dimensionally as the 375 Ruger and it's only one step expansion to the target 0.423 bullet diameter.