404 J Twist Rate

[bruce moulds]

this subject raises the point of the newer heavier for calibre bullets no available.
these include 350 gn 375, 450 gn 416, and 550 gn 458.
do they in fact need a faster than std twist due to a) their extra length, and b) slower velocity and hence spin rate?
bruce.

 

[Hogpatrol]

this subject raises the point of the newer heavier for calibre bullets no available.
these include 350 gn 375, 450 gn 416, and 550 gn 458.
do they in fact need a faster than std twist due to a) their extra length, and b) slower velocity and hence spin rate?
bruce.

Will they stabilize and shoot OK? Maybe. They may shoot well at close range but the accuracy degrades at longer ranges. Generally speaking, the heavy for caliber bullets need a faster than standard twist to get the full BC. Photo is of the extreme, twist too slow, bullets unstabilized. Target was at 50 yards.

 

[Fastrig]

Fastrig, when I bought my second 404 Jeffery and found out that it had a 1/16 twist rate I was concerned since the other rifle I had was 1/10. I did the minimal twist rate calculation and discovered that it was higher than the twist rate in either of my rifles. The "optimal" twist rate for any given caliber probably depends on which bullet is being used.

A twist from 10-16 looks like it will work fine in the 404J using factory ammo. The big bore rifle I’m going to get will be my only big bore rifle and I’m probably over thinking this a bit. Been looking for available actions, barrels, triggers and stocks. Not a lot of options popping up so may go with a Montana Rifle Co. African in stainless, threaded muzzle with cap, their muzzle brake for range shooting, and see what trigger, sights, and stock options they will accommodate for a semi-custom order. Probably be the most economical route to take at the end of the day and the rifle would have all the appropriate serial number and manufacture stamps so there are no issues traveling with it. Twist rate is 12” on the MRC 404J with 24” barrel, so should be good to go on that item. Think my biggest decision is going to be whether to have open sights or forgo them and go strictly with a quick dot optic.

 

[nztimb]

Think my biggest decision is going to be whether to have open sights or forgo them and go strictly with a quick dot optic.

In my (not so humble) opinion a rifle in the 40+ caliber range just dosent LOOK right without iron sights so if you want to go with the dot optic or low powered scope, have a set of bases so you can QD the glass if need be (stuff happens) and still have the iron sights.

 

[meigsbucks]

I just checked loading manuals to see what twists they used.
Barnes: 1:14 Pac-nor test barrel
Swift: 1:14 Wiseman test barrel
Hornady: 1:11 CZ rifle
A-Square: 1:16.54
Hope this helps.

 

[Fastrig]

In my (not so humble) opinion a rifle in the 40+ caliber range just dosent LOOK right without iron sights so if you want to go with the dot optic or low powered scope, have a set of bases so you can QD the glass if need be (stuff happens) and still have the iron sights.

Agree, that’s why that would be the biggest decision of the build...I’m a big iron sights guy so there will probably be sights on this rifle

 

[ve7poi]

Biggest thing is don’t build a light weight and not expect it to recoil.
10lbs is just about right for mine on a win 70 crf action pacnor bbl no brake shootable prone no problem.
Barnes 400gr TSX @ 2300fps

 

[Fastrig]

Biggest thing is don’t build a light weight and not expect it to recoil.
10lbs is just about right for mine on a win 70 crf action pacnor bbl no brake shootable prone no problem.
Barnes 400gr TSX @ 2300fps

Shot my “very light” Mauser M12 9.3x62 today, 9.4 lbs. with scope, bipod, and magazine . Shot about 40 rounds getting the scope dialed in. My shoulder is a bit sore as she kicks a bit because she’s so light. The CZ 550 300 win mag I gave my son weighs 9.6 lbs. with no scope or bipod, around 12 lbs decked out. That 300 kicks too don’t seem to feel it quit so much, which i’d attribute to the extra few lbs. helping with the recoil. Will be eyeing around 9.x to 10 lbs. stripped weight for the 404J, 12-13 decked out.

 

[ve7poi]

Should be a very nice rifle to shoot used mine to take first buff at 20yds did a super job on it.

 

[nztimb]

. Will be eyeing around 9.x to 10 lbs. stripped weight for the 404J, 12-13 decked out.

That is very heavy for the 404 Jeffery. Your stripped weight would be plenty heavy enough as a loaded weight for the 400gn/2300fps 404 standard loads. Mine was 9 1/2 lb ready to go but minus ammo and perfectly shootable from the bench for 30+ rounds. The pic is of shooting a 38ogn cast bullet at 2416fps

 

[bruce moulds]

looks like a nice place for a picnic.
absolutely lovely.
bruce.

 

[Fastrig]

That is very heavy for the 404 Jeffery. Your stripped weight would be plenty heavy enough as a loaded weight for the 400gn/2300fps 404 standard loads. Mine was 9 1/2 lb ready to go but minus ammo and perfectly shootable from the bench for 30+ rounds. The pic is of shooting a 38ogn cast bullet at 2416fps
View attachment 297667

Thanks Von....maybe it was that 40th round in my 9.3x62 that was getting to me Everyone keeps saying heavier is better in these big bores but maybe there is a too heavy. Weight isn't really a problem for me as long as the rifle is balanced very well, but don't want ridiculous weight either. Thanks again.

 

[ve7poi]

9.5lbs plenty ready to go scope 4 rounds sling and perfectly balanced makes it an easy carry all day. Balance and fit make a bigger difference than extra weight to recoil.

 

[Fastrig]

9.5lbs plenty ready to go scope 4 rounds sling and perfectly balanced makes it an easy carry all day. Balance and fit make a bigger difference than extra weight to recoil.

A well balance rifle, even at 11 - 12 lbs. total weight is better than any weighted rifle that isn't balanced well.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I had this discussion with my rifle builder, who has built a number of high-end .404J rifles. He uses Pac-Nor barrels with 1-14" twist rate. We are targeting 9-1/2 lbs when finished, with scope (VXIII 1.5 -5X) on QD mounts with a Rigby style ghost ring rear peep.

 

[Fastrig]

I had this discussion with my rifle builder, who has built a number of high-end .404J rifles. He uses Pac-Nor barrels with 1-14" twist rate. We are targeting 9-1/2 lbs when finished, with scope (VXIII 1.5 -5X) on QD mounts with a Rigby style ghost ring rear peep.

What are you using for the chamber, trigger, etc.?