400 Whelen

[Milehighshooter]

Nice rifle looking forward to seeing how it shoots. Have fun and shoot it alott!

Thanks Dave! I'm looking forward to it as well

 

[bilmcc]

There are a million cerakote colors to go through. I did my first rifle in black. Meh. Then I tried midnight blue. Did all my lever actions in that. To me it looks like standard bluing. Hope that is useful.

(Was going to do my Vanguard 300 Win Mag in sniper gray, but the shop closed down before I got to that.)

 

[Milehighshooter]

May go with a darker grey color, i think it'll contrast nicely with the nutmeg stock

 

[Bullthrower338]

Going to be a sweetheart! I’ve got a 375 Whelen AI and love it.
+1 on Glenrock Blue, they do wonderful work and a short drive up from Denver.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[steve white]

Can't BELIEVE you are able to duplicate 400/450 with an '06 case. This has really perked me up!!

 

[Milehighshooter]

Can't BELIEVE you are able to duplicate 400/450 with an '06 case. This has really perked me up!!

Have to remember the 450/400 is a very low pressure round with ample space in the case. The 400 to hit 2150 is running at the top, and until I start loading I won't know if mine tops out below that. Based on others experience it SHOULD hit 2150, but to hit that magic 4,000 ft-lbs I only need 2122 fps. In all reality the original 450/400 loads were probably slower. Many of the old cartridges got their famous numbers in very long proof barrels with higher pressure ammo, but in the real world "safari ammo" was loaded down for heat/pressure and rifles weren't being built with 28-30" bbls. Same trick the Americans used during the infancy of the magnum craze. Test in 26", sell in 22-24".

However, my intentions for now, are to test out 350 and 360 grain bullets. A 350 is .296 and the 360 North Fork is .304, so you're in the same SD as a 300gr 375 or 286 .366 which most wouldn't think twice about using in heavy game. A 350/360 should, by accounts of other 400 loaders, easily hit 2350 or so. That's 4400 ft-lbs or 5986 joules. I can hopefully find a good accuracy node between 2250-2300 and still have over 4000 ft lbs, a little less recoil and a bit lower pressure.

There is a guy on AR/24CF selling his, unfired. M70 with NECG open sights, 1 piece bottom metal with dies and brass for $1400 shipped if you want to take the plung

 

[Von S.]

Milehighshooter,

I tip my hat to you and will say that if it weren't for you and guys like you the wonderful and pleasure able world of wildcat building would have died one hell of a long time ago and there would only be about 6 rounds to choose from.

Though most wildcats and people who build them attempt to drive bullets at astronomical barrel melting velocities that make many bullets fly apart if the contacts gnat on their way to taking out a world class something at 500... You have chosen to build a rifle in a extremely usable round that can reliably dump most of the world's trophies at a normal shooting distance.

Good show....

 

[Milehighshooter]

Thanks Von!

I helped work on another cat 10 or so years ago that was the same concept. Replicate old school rounds with modern components. That was a 423 on a necked up 375 with no changes, no improving or anything. Created a ghost shoulder, easy feeding, and a simple rebore to create. We looked to throw a 400gr bullet in the 2150-2250 range with low pressure and recoil (relative to big bores) as a way of avoiding the extreme cost of building a 404 properly. Might have to revisit that again, as I'm sending a 300 Wby off to become a 375 H&H, and now my current 375 H&H needs a new job. The factory Winchester bbl profile is unnecessarily heavy.

 

[ve7poi]

Never heard of a 400 Whelen before today. Here is an interesting read:

http://www.finegunmaking.com/page33/page51/page51.html

Thank you that one point of 458 shoulder answers all my questions as to why there is a love hate relationship with the 400whelen

 

[5shot]

Thank you that one point of 458 shoulder answers all my questions as to why there is a love hate relationship with the 400whelen

Yes, that is it. The 400 was originally an improved cartridge, and those rifles that weren't made that way would have serious problems.

 

[Dale Wade]

This may be old news but a friend gave me a Gun Digest 2018 he had finished with. He knows I like to slice, scan and archive articles of interest. There is a great article on the 400 Whelen with some nice color photographs of some beautiful 400 Whelen rifles. The article is pretty in depth on the history, design and loading of the cartridge. It is written by Bob Woodfill. Included are a couple of pics of Elmer Keith's 400 Whelen.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Dale Wade If you have scanned in the article could you possibly email me a copy?

 

[Dale Wade]

Dave,
I've sent you a PM.

Dale

 

[Milehighshooter]

@AZDAVE want to fwd that to me? Can always use more load data

 

[fourfive8]

As was described in the post about the shoulder requirement- the issue is the lack of headspace control in the 400 Whelen design. Given the constraints of the base body diameter of the 30-06 parent, there is just not enough remaining diameter to form an effective, positive shoulder for head spacing when expanding the neck for 40 cal. Invariably head spacing problems like excessive case stretch fatigue and separation issues will sooner or later be encountered if this cartridge is reloaded. That's the reason there is great advantage for the Ackley Improved version for both the 35 Whelen and 375 Whelen. It's not to enhance performance but to provide better headspace control. But there isn't enough diameter left for an effective shoulder, improved or not, in the 400 Whelen.

pic of section on 400 Whelen in Cartridges of the World, FC Barnes.

 

[Milehighshooter]

Whelen originally designed it with a 458 shoulder from cylinder brass. The 400 Whelen has no problems.

People who incorrectly chamber and load using 30-06 brass, caused the problems, and those myths still persist.

Use the right chamber, use the right brass, you'll have NO issues with headspace

 

[sestoppelman]

Can't BELIEVE you are able to duplicate 400/450 with an '06 case. This has really perked me up!!

Cant be done, not if both are loaded to equal pressures or anywhere near.

 

[Milehighshooter]

They're not the same pressure. The whelen runs at 30-06 pressure. Hence, 2150 with a 400

 

[sestoppelman]

Well, that's my point isn't it? You can do a lot with the '06 case, but you cant make it bigger. The .450/400 is much larger and as I said, run them up to the same pressure which is easy in a Ruger No.1, and its no contest.

 

[Milehighshooter]

So? My gun holds 5, not 1. Not sure why you're bringing up hot rodding a 100+ year old cartridge in a single shot. You can load lots of guns faster.