40 S&W cartridge- how good?

[mdwest]

It’s been proven that a 9mm is nearly or as effective as the 45 on men. My question is which one would be better on large, heavy boned animals in today’s times?

My GUESS would be the 45.. but thats based on some old ballistics testing I was involved in during the late 90's and early 2000's.. that was NOT centered around horses.. we were shooting unarmored vehicles and other large heavy objects (everything from refrigerators to coffee tables) and trying to figure out "penetration" in terms of what penetrated deepest, most consistently, etc.. what moved consistently in straight line vs deflecting when it hit angles like a cars front windshield, etc..

What we found back then was bigger and slower generally penetrated deeper and more in a straight line across a wide variety of targets than smaller and faster..

Too slow was not good.. low velocity buckshot for example didnt fare well on a lot of the things we shot..

But generally speaking pistols actually penetrated deeper and more in a straight line through walls, car doors, etc.. than say 556 did... which would divert off path, fragment, etc.. after hitting something hard or angled.. and larger, slower pistols like a 230gr 45 ACP generally penetrated deeper and more in a straight line than smaller, faster pistol rounds like a 115gr 9mm..

 

[Deleted member 46122]

Let’s go back to the OP
The 40 is a watered down 10mm of course. Remember the Miami shootout? FBI under gunned, 9mm failed to penetrate, 357 saved the day ... its in the report.
The 10mm was born from that shootout.
I have carried a hand gun of different calibers for all of my adult life. As a cop, and 16 years active military (18D).
I’ve seen people killed with everything and have had my hands is lots more gunshot wounds than I care to remember. I digress
Anyway, I have a few 40’s. Glock, and Sig. carried it ( the 40) for years as a cop.
I carry a 9mm in town, a 10mm or 357 in the woods, and a 45 when I feel like something needs to stay shot when you shoot it.
Like another member said, a hand gun is only used to fight your way back to a long gun.
The key is this: hits count, misses don’t. Carry what you like and train with it.
sorry for the ramble, I’m supposed to be at work. This is much more fun

 

[CoElkHunter]

25 years ago.... I was hit by a 9mm 147gr Federal Hydra-Shok literally a mm below the bottom of my vest, just to the left of the naval.. the bullet exited on the right rear of my hip... I lost about 6" of intestines, my appendix, and a ton of blood...

What matters as it relates to this discussion is... I stayed in the fight for a full additional 60 seconds (until the fight ended) and could have likely stayed in the fight a good bit longer if it was required..

Thats not because I am some super human, stud dog, bad ass.. It was simply because thats what humans do when they are in the fight...

Hollywood lies.. handguns as a rule, dont put men on their asses immediately unless vital organs are hit.. and even then you'd be amazed at what a dying man can do in the last 5 seconds of his life after you take out the top of his heart..

.45 ACP, .40 S&W, or 9mm... makes not a bit of difference.. hit the center of the heart with a 9mm, the result is going to be the same as hitting the center of the heart with a 40... Dont hit the heart/brain.. and you are likely still very much in harms way... and you are far better off putting 2, 3, 4, or however many additional rounds into that threat as fast as possible, hopefully depressurizing the threat rapidly, or hitting the vitals with one of those follow on shots..

Knowing people miss A LOT in gun fights.. and knowing that the vast majority of people can get off multiple rounds from a 9mm a whole lot faster and more accurately than with a 40 or a 45.. the reason for 9mm being chosen by so many agencies and organizations becomes clear..

All of that said... Dont get me wrong.. I LOVE my 1911s.. and I LOVE my .45 ACPs.. If I already owned a 1911 in 45 ACP and didnt own another handgun or want to buy another handgun.. I wouldnt go rushing out to buy another one now.. it will absolutely get the job done..

You just better not be one of those guys that misses 70% of your shots in a gunfight... even if youre showing up with some nifty wilson combat 8 round mags..

I'm so very sorry about your gunshot injury. You were very fortunate to have survived. Your right about a man and his fortitude to survive even with a fatal wound.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

To be fair, the man was killed by the 357, but the 115 Winchester silvertip from the 9mm did about all you can expect of a handgun bullet. Broke the arm, a rib, and punctured a lung.
The big lesson learned in Miami was that a rifle is far superior to shotguns and handguns.

 

[Deleted member 46122]

To be fair, the man was killed by the 357, but the 115 Winchester silvertip from the 9mm did about all you can expect of a handgun bullet. Broke the arm, a rib, and punctured a lung.
The big lesson learned in Miami was that a rifle is far superior to shotguns and handguns.

You are correct. It was a long shot that broke the arm. If I recall it was like 60 yards or so. 80 maybe

 

[F. Vaccaro]

A lot has been made over the improvement in 9mm bullets. This is true, but it's also true for almost every other handgun bullet too so I take that with a grain of salt. When things get hairy it's shot placement that counts.
Bill Jordan distilled it nicely. " speeds fine, accuracy is final"!

 

[RETD16]

People can be taught how to be accurate shooting moderate recoil. The 40 S&W has moderate recoil at best IMHO. I like to err on the side of bullet weight and frontal diameter.

 

[Velo Dog]

The most dangerous animal walks on its hind legs and can solve very complex problems quickly……use enough gun.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The most dangerous animal walks on its hind legs and can solve very complex problems quickly……use enough gun.

+1! Even in a seemingly innocuous forest when your enjoying the outdoors with your family.