.375 vs .404 jeffry

No, not originally a .416R, but .350R converted to .404J . I had Rigbys work sheet, but I have no idea where it is. The Rigby is a much lighter rifle the action is SSBridge mauser again original magazine metal & 3rd. Capacity.

Lon
The bottom metal may have been modified, but it is the original metal.
I would have to send back to Rigby to get the worksheet.
I have several .404J Jeffery, Rigby, Heym, CZ 550. The CZs are not as smooth as the other 3.
I will get the Rigby&Jeffery out of the safe and take a look.

Lon
 
My .375 H&H weighs 7 lbs. It has a free recoil energy of 64 ft-lbs. It beats the snot out of me. I think your values might be a bit low....a .30-06 is normally around 18-20 pounds. My.375 Weatherby is way up there but I use a special stock so it mitigates it. I have the same stock for my .458 Lott build. I want a 500gr at 2400 ft/s. Rock and roll :)
My 375H&H is 7 pound and gives far less felt recoil then the 9 pound CZ550 in 375H&H. Secret is the elcheapo plastic stock on the Rem 700. It absorbs a lot of energy and it shots as well as the CZ550. Geus which one I sold.

Most people get hooked up on need weight for a hard kicking rifle, yes it helps but an energy absorbing stock is a bigger help and stock fit is the best way to deal with felt recoil. I have fired a 378Weatherby that belted me less than the CZ550 in 375H&H. The reason Weatherby had less felt recoil for me was the stock shape and dimensions, it simply fitted me better.
 
My 375H&H is 7 pound and gives far less felt recoil then the 9 pound CZ550 in 375H&H. Secret is the elcheapo plastic stock on the Rem 700. It absorbs a lot of energy and it shots as well as the CZ550. Geus which one I sold.

Most people get hooked up on need weight for a hard kicking rifle, yes it helps but an energy absorbing stock is a bigger help and stock fit is the best way to deal with felt recoil. I have fired a 378Weatherby that belted me less than the CZ550 in 375H&H. The reason Weatherby had less felt recoil for me was the stock shape and dimensions, it simply fitted me better.
Mine is a Remington Model 700 Classic. I forget the year, but they used to offer them each year in one caliber only, and it was different from year to year. It has a very narrow stock. I only run open sights on it. The gun itself is only about 6.5 pounds, and just about 7 when loaded. I've put as many as thirty out of it off a sit down bench in a session, but it really rocks me. But as long as I don't get beat in the head by a scope, I don't mind it. My .375 Weatherby that I built is much heavier and has that big A-Square style Coil Check stock, and a 16 ounce mercury recoil reducer in the buttstock. It's much more pleasant to shoot, even though it's got more power and I run a scope on it. The A-Square stock really does work...it's just not very graceful looking :)
 
The bottom metal may have been modified, but it is the original metal.
I would have to send back to Rigby to get the worksheet.
I have several .404J Jeffery, Rigby, Heym, CZ 550. The CZs are not as smooth as the other 3.
I will get the Rigby&Jeffery out of the safe and take a look.

Lon
I understand now. You had Rigby do the 404J upgrade to your gun. That's how you know the bottom metal is the same. You know your gun. Be interesting to learn what modifications Rigby made to the box. I've often thought about this. Does only the top of the box need to meet Mauser's cosine 30 dimensions formula? As long as the bottom two shells stack offset enough to keep from jumping out of alignment, isn't that enough? Obviously, alignment of the round in line to be cycled is more critical. Bolt needs to pick up the rim and cartridge must stay under the rails till timing is right to jump to bolt face. So, is it only necessary to open up the top third (or quarter?) of the box. If you can, caliper the width of the box next to floorplate and compare it to width at top where it meets the receiver. Hmmm. But if the top of the box was wider, what would happen to stock fit at floorplate? Interesting.
 
Lengthy discussion here. IMO, the comparison is 'apples and oranges'.

The .375 H&H is a MEDIUM BORE cartridge that is broadly applicable and can handle buff in a pinch f backed by a appropriately armed PH. The 375 can be used at distances up to 250 or, perhaps, 300 yards, so it is a 'heavy PG rfile' that can easily handle cats and stretch to buffalo as well.

The 404 Jeffery is an over 40 caliber (large bore) cartridge designed for dangerous game shooting. It can be applied to PG, but NOT at the ranges that the 375 H&H excels at. I know... I used my 404 to shoot a bull eland at a bit over 200 yards and it did the job, but I felt that this was a stretch. The 375 would have been much better for that shot.

I own both a 404J and a 375 H&H and appreciate both, but they are not truly interchangeable, IMO.

Eland1.jpeg
 
Lengthy discussion here. IMO, the comparison is 'apples and oranges'.

The .375 H&H is a MEDIUM BORE cartridge that is broadly applicable and can handle buff in a pinch f backed by a appropriately armed PH. The 375 can be used at distances up to 250 or, perhaps, 300 yards, so it is a 'heavy PG rfile' that can easily handle cats and stretch to buffalo as well.

The 404 Jeffery is an over 40 caliber (large bore) cartridge designed for dangerous game shooting. It can be applied to PG, but NOT at the ranges that the 375 H&H excels at. I know... I used my 404 to shoot a bull eland at a bit over 200 yards and it did the job, but I felt that this was a stretch. The 375 would have been much better for that shot.

I own both a 404J and a 375 H&H and appreciate both, but they are not truly interchangeable, IMO.

View attachment 579250
Many professionals don’t consider a cartridge “Large Bore” until you reach .458-class. This is largely subjective.
Are they the same?…NO.
Are they interchangeable?…Well you can kill every animal with a 375 H&H that you can kill with a 404J, but both have their strengths.
 
Many professionals don’t consider a cartridge “Large Bore” until you reach .458-class. This is largely subjective.
Are they the same?…NO.
Are they interchangeable?…Well you can kill every animal with a 375 H&H that you can kill with a 404J, but both have their strengths.
Yes, I know. Large bore, big bore, super bore, etc.

I can kill ANYTHING on this planet with a 30-‘06, but will it die before it kills me? Academic, perhaps, but germane to the discussion.
 
Yes, I know. Large bore, big bore, super bore, etc.

I can kill ANYTHING on this planet with a 30-‘06, but will it die before it kills me? Academic, perhaps, but germane to the discussion.
When I said “you can kill anything” it was relevant because it IS LEGAL, and IS USED for those purposes often (the 375).
The cartridges loaded to normal levels have similar energy & sectional density. The only thing the 404J really has up on it is frontal area.
The 375H&H shooting a 350gr bullet at 2375fps and the 404J shooting a 400gr bullet at 2300fps are not far off from each other.
I’m not saying the 404J isn’t more powerful, but to act like it is in some much higher class (aside from cool points) is where I disagree.
I think the 404J is very classic, cool, and is a hammer. I’m just making a point.
 
I forgot to add @Nevada Mike, congrats on your 200yd shot with a 404J on that beautiful Eland. That is a memory for a lifetime!
 
I forgot to add @Nevada Mike, congrats on your 200yd shot with a 404J on that beautiful Eland. That is a memory for a lifetime!
Thank you. It was a great moment for me

I’m not trying to bust your chops… I like both these calibers- just a question of application.
 
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Choose the best tool for the job. Forget about hypotheticals.
 
Lengthy discussion here. IMO, the comparison is 'apples and oranges'.

The .375 H&H is a MEDIUM BORE cartridge that is broadly applicable and can handle buff in a pinch f backed by a appropriately armed PH. The 375 can be used at distances up to 250 or, perhaps, 300 yards, so it is a 'heavy PG rfile' that can easily handle cats and stretch to buffalo as well.

The 404 Jeffery is an over 40 caliber (large bore) cartridge designed for dangerous game shooting. It can be applied to PG, but NOT at the ranges that the 375 H&H excels at. I know... I used my 404 to shoot a bull eland at a bit over 200 yards and it did the job, but I felt that this was a stretch. The 375 would have been much better for that shot.

I own both a 404J and a 375 H&H and appreciate both, but they are not truly interchangeable, IMO.

View attachment 579250
Handle buffalo in a pinch?!? A .375 will do far more than that. The four bulls I have killed with a .375 expired rather decisively. I own a .404. 500-416, and .470 - all of which I shoot very well. But, when I travel to Africa and a buffalo is on the dance card, a .375 is inevitably my hunting companion. It is precisely because the .404 and .375 are not interchangeable. The .375 is far more versatile.
 
I understand now. You had Rigby do the 404J upgrade to your gun. That's how you know the bottom metal is the same. You know your gun. Be interesting to learn what modifications Rigby made to the box. I've often thought about this. Does only the top of the box need to meet Mauser's cosine 30 dimensions formula? As long as the bottom two shells stack offset enough to keep from jumping out of alignment, isn't that enough? Obviously, alignment of the round in line to be cycled is more critical. Bolt needs to pick up the rim and cartridge must stay under the rails till timing is right to jump to bolt face. So, is it only necessary to open up the top third (or quarter?) of the box. If you can, caliper the width of the box next to floorplate and compare it to width at top where it meets the receiver. Hmmm. But if the top of the box was wider, what would happen to stock fit at floorplate? Interesting.
On the Rigby .404, please note I did not order the work done. This is a conversion that was done a long time ago maybe early 50s. Barrel was rebored to .404j

If I remember correctly I read somewhere that Rigby searched out for SSB mauser rifles to do this conversion.


After 5 months of 7 days a week of. Chemo and strong pain killers it has left my brain in a bit of a fog, sometimes I get details wrong. At least I am off of the morphine.

Lon
 
On the Rigby .404, please note I did not order the work done. This is a conversion that was done a long time ago maybe early 50s. Barrel was rebored to .404j

If I remember correctly I read somewhere that Rigby searched out for SSB mauser rifles to do this conversion.


After 5 months of 7 days a week of. Chemo and strong pain killers it has left my brain in a bit of a fog, sometimes I get details wrong. At least I am off of the morphine.

Lon
No worries, Lon. I was only curious how that rifle transformed. Get well!
 
No worries, Lon. I was only curious how that rifle transformed. Get well!
Hi

A little while ago I walked down to my shop and granbbed the first pair of electronic calipers I could find. I had problems getting them to reset and hold so I hope these numbers are accurate, but here goes.

Bottom metal/ magazine taken from bottom

Width at rear 259 mm
Width at front 199mm
Length. 942

Action total opening 880mm

Follower RR 107
Follower RF 105

Follower LR 162
Follower RF 160
 
No worries, Lon. I was only curious how that rifle transformed. Get

As far as I can see no mods to stock or action. Possible mods to bolt face, follower, magazine & barrel rebore.

I hope this helps.
 
The original semi-anemic 404 factory loads from Jeffery were 400 gr @ 2150 fps. Mauser's factory loads for 10.75x68 were 347 gr (NOT 400 gr) @ 2200 fps. Big difference in bullet mass. Today one can buy factory 400 gr for the 404 @ +2300 fps.
And sectional density - penetration .
 

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idjeffp wrote on Jon R15's profile.
Hi Jon,
I saw your post for the .500 NE cases. Are these all brass or are they nickel plated? Hard for me to tell... sorry.
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Boise, ID
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FDP wrote on dailordasailor's profile.
1200 for the 375 barrel and accessories?
 
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