The original semi-anemic 404 factory loads from Jeffery were 400 gr @ 2150 fps. Mauser's factory loads for 10.75x68 were 347 gr (NOT 400 gr) @ 2200 fps. Big difference in bullet mass. Today one can buy factory 400 gr for the 404 @ +2300 fps.
The Jeff’s original “semi-anemic” loads with .423”/400grn bullets were closer to 2050-2100fps from a 23”-24” barrel. Most ammo companies tested their loads from 25”-26” or longer barrels, so you have to factor actual velocity from the barrel of a real-world rifle carried in the field.
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Correct, and actually it’s 2350fps.
It shoots a heavier bullet 400gr up to 2350fps vs 347gr bullet....
The lower velocity back in the old days was probably why it performed as well as it did. The bullets of the time were more the problem than anything else. They probably held up better at 2000 fps than they would at 2400 fps.The Jeff’s original “semi-anemic” loads with .423”/400grn bullets were closer to 2050-2100fps from a 23”-24” barrel. Most ammo companies tested their loads from 25”-26” or longer barrels, so you have to factor actual velocity from the barrel of a real-world rifle carried in the field.
Kynoch, I believe, claimed “2125”fps as the velocity of their 400grn .404 load but that was from a 28” barrel. From a 23-24” barrel, they spec-ed it at 1975fps.
Kynoch 404 Jeffery Ammo 400 Grain Woodleigh Weldcore Solid Round Nose
Kynoch Ammunition is widely respected as the true originator of the classic British Nitro Express Cartridges. In association with Eley Limited, Kynamco...
All that said, the original .404J ammo still killed a lot of the Really Big Stuff as in ‘dead right now.’ …. And that was back when the bullets used were only of inconsistent “so-so” quality. There were many examples of catastrophic bullet failures on dangerous game. Pondoro Taylor talks about this. But poor bullet tech was the problem, not lack of velocity.
Correct, and actually it’s 2350fps.
The additional 250fps (and with modern projectiles, by the way) being totally unnecessary. The .404J’s original velocity window with 400grn bullets worked just fine in the field and made a 9lb rifle no worse to handle and shoot than a .375H&H with stiff 300grn ammo.
I was trying to familiarize myself with the 10mm Mauser "idiot" cartridge mentioned earlier when I stumbled on this delightful article re "The All Round" [African] cartridge. Very well written. However, I'm not sure I agree with the author's statement knocking the 404 Jeffery from contention simply because building one requires a "top grade gunsmith" to make them feed properly. I did it and I've never claimed to be a gunsmith. "Top grade?" Well okay, he might be onto something there.
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You can probably find it searching for the title and I believe the author's first name is Chet.
That is of course true, but is not specific to the 404. I guess that similar problems could arise for any cartridge if the chosen action is too short. Other cartridges may in themselves be more tricky and require more attention to detail regarding the gunsmithing. I believe that rebated rims (e.g. 425 WR) could be one of those design features, but I've never handled/shot any of those.
, so now the 'magazine' was only the wood of the surrounding magazine well. It still fed nicely, though. But of course I quickly re-installed the mag box, as the cartridges were moving more freely under recoil and would have started to affect the wood when hitting (being hit by) the front wall.Exactly.....
I've seen such pictures myself. And that would probably work fine if the dimensions of the inletting are good, after all, there are no real stresses or forces acting sideways so to speak. In my case it was just wood on all four sides. Not an ideal long-term solution.
My standard action 98 Mauser feeds 404 shells "slick as goose shit." I bought a magnum length follower from New England Custom Gun but it really wasn't necessary. By the time the cartridge being loaded has hit the end of the shorter standard follower, it should be well into the chamber and fully into position under the extractor on the bolt face. The magnum follower did require minor modification to load the final cartridge and grasp narrower spring.
Custom work? …. Good gawd, what chewed up that follower? A rabid hyena?
I was referring to a 10.75x68 with hand loaded modern bullets of 400 gr achieving 2100 fps out of a 24 inch barrel. This is routinely achieved. It seems it mirrors the original specs of a 404 J which is what made the round famous. In addition, no feeding issues. IMO there is no real justification to criticize this round in the modern era. It will kill anything on the planet just as well as an original 404J did. It seems like this obsolete cartridge is ripe for a rebirth
I should update that photo. Final version is polished and looks somewhat better. The placement of the gouge is what makes it feed slick ... for the final round anyway. Actually, it was custom gunmaker Dennis Olsen who tipped me off to the necessity of customizing the follower last. Get left feeding rail to feed, then the right rail, then leave them alone and tune the follower to make the last round feed. He says he often gets clients who gripe about the follower being buggered. "The rifle cycles. Isn't that what ya wanted?" I agree with his logic. Kinda silly to get bent out of shape over something that no one really looks at anyway. Or it's covered with ammo and can't be seen. I guess I would be upset if the chamber was left rough (a la Remington 870 Express). Also an unseen blemish but it makes the gun operate poorly. This unsightly modification makes it operate properly.
I would disagree with you on Jeffery cutting the front and side magazine metal.
I agree. Like many others have said, if one wants the same 400 gr velocity of a 416 Rigby, he should shoot a 416 Rigby. The only caveat might be that modern copper bullets require speed for best performance. But does one even need 400 gr bullets in copper for sufficient performance? I don't think so. Step down to 350 gr for the gas and recoil will still be tamed. Now if we can just get more bullet makers to produce 350 or 300 gr 404 Jeffery that would be nice (or produce any 404J bullets).
In the time it took for you to write this wonderful summary, I would have ordered both guns & all the reloading equipment for both. Life is too short to make hard decisions.....you deserve both!
What year was yours made? I think it was just the early ones that had the makeshift bottom metal. Perhaps Jeffery was initially hesitant to make any huge leaps with retooling actions for their new cartridge. I'm sure Jeffery was thinking/hoping Mauser would soon reneg on their deal with Rigby and start making magnum length actions available to other makers. During the interwar years magnum actions dried up and makers went back to making standard actions work (e.g. Harry Selby's 416 Rigby). This would be a long term situation (Versailles Treaty limitations + Great Depression) so Jeffery likely committed to tooling up for modified bottom metal.
