.375 vs .404 jeffry

[IvW]

Of course, the book also states that the FIRST elephant he killed was with the 10.75x68 rifle, lol.

Quickly got rid of that ideotic idea......

 

[Hunter-Habib]

404 Jeff is far superior to 375 H&H for buffalo and up.....

Better velocity(standard 375 H&H is too fast for dg) bigger bullet......

I am in process with a reputable bullet manufacturer to design a 420gr bullet for the 404 Jeff @ +-2400fps it will be devistatingly effective.....

The 500 Jeff is in a class of its own.....we are also designing a 600gr bullet for the big daddy 500 Jeff.....

Rhino currently lists 600Gr monolithic solids and solid shanks for the .510 caliber.

 

[IvW]

Rhino currently lists 600Gr monolithic solids and solid shanks for the .510 caliber.

I know I am part of the team.....

 

[TOBY458]

I know I am part of the team.....

So when are you going to get them imported into the USA?

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I believe more dust comes off a dagga boy when shot with a .404, thus enhancing the cool factor.

Lon

 

[Nevada Mike]

I believe more dust comes off a dagga boy when shot with a .404, thus enhancing the cool factor.

Lon

I can confirm this. Dust flies off the whole body of the buff on impact... even at 2250 fps. Awe inspiring.

 

[Jim Golden]

When in doubt, buy both.

Yes, this!

 

[Jim Golden]

This is the best explanation I have read, regarding the "Recoil Impulse, Velocity of Recoil, and Energy of recoil. The "Moment of Recoil, Rifle Balance and Recoil Speed makes a lot of difference for a slight framed (skinny) guy like me.

I read some years ago, that a British Ordinance Officer (can't remember his name), that claimed most men can shoot a rifle comfortably up to 17 Pounds Feet/ Second of Recoil Velocity.

I think this applies for medium bores as well, as many shooters feel the sharp recoil effect of Weatherby Ammo. Almost all are greater than the 17 pounds feet per second level.

When I ran the numbers on a .416 Rigby (410 grains at 2350 fps) and a downloaded .416 Remington (400 grains at 2150, old school Nitro Express), it made a lot of sense.

The 400 grain at 2150 was right at 17 pounds feet per second recoil velocity, and I can shoot this accurately for several rounds.
The .416 Rigby, 2350 fps was about 19 pounds feet per second, too much for me to shoot accurately after 3 shots.

That's why I shoot a 450/400 Nitro.
But I really want a .404 Jeffery, for the nostalgia factor.

My .375 H&H weighs 7 lbs. It has a free recoil energy of 64 ft-lbs. It beats the snot out of me. I think your values might be a bit low....a .30-06 is normally around 18-20 pounds. My.375 Weatherby is way up there but I use a special stock so it mitigates it. I have the same stock for my .458 Lott build. I want a 500gr at 2400 ft/s. Rock and roll

 

[Jack Stevens]

My .375 H&H weighs 7 lbs. It has a free recoil energy of 64 ft-lbs. It beats the snot out of me. I think your values might be a bit low....a .30-06 is normally around 18-20 pounds. My.375 Weatherby is way up there but I use a special stock so it mitigates it. I have the same stock for my .458 Lott build. I want a 500gr at 2400 ft/s. Rock and roll

Yeah, the glaring contradiction here is with the guys who want a “feather weight” 400-class rifle (7lbs) that can be carried in their back pocket.

There’s no free lunch in the trade-off between felt-recoil (via free recoil energy) versus the cumulative weight of the rifle that’s kicking you. Hard-kicking cartridge = need for a heavy/heavier rifle to mitigate felt-recoil (with or without an optic mounted).

My AHR .404J, shot with iron sights or a light-weight 2x compact scope, is right at the minimal over-all weight for the cartridge, at least as originally loaded (i.e., 400grns @ 2100fps). Manageable from actual field positions.

If I want a lighter rifle but one still dispensing a significant punch, I’ll skip my .375H&H completely and grab my 6.2lb Remmy M600 18.5” carbine … in snot-pounding .350 Remington Magnum.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Whoahhh, years ago I shot a friends REM 600 in .350 REM. MAG. offhand.. It was very unpleasant & I was shooting a .300 Win Mag. at the time.

 

[VertigoBE]

I love these discussions. For the information and the entertainment

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Right now, the 375 is a much better performer because you can actually find ammo for it.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I was trying to familiarize myself with the 10mm Mauser "idiot" cartridge mentioned earlier when I stumbled on this delightful article re "The All Round" [African] cartridge. Very well written. However, I'm not sure I agree with the author's statement knocking the 404 Jeffery from contention simply because building one requires a "top grade gunsmith" to make them feed properly. I did it and I've never claimed to be a gunsmith. "Top grade?" Well okay, he might be onto something there.

https://www.**NOT**PERMITTED**.com/all-round-rifle.html

Hope posting this link doesn't violate any rules. I'm already on one mod's defacation list.

Edit: Looks like posting that link is vorboten. Sorry. Must be considered aiding and abetting the enemy. You can probably find it searching for the title and I believe the author's first name is Chet.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Whoahhh, years ago I shot a friends REM 600 in .350 REM. MAG. offhand.. It was very unpleasant & I was shooting a .300 Win Mag. at the time.

Not if you tame it a bit, like we did, by ditching the M600’s old hard factory recoil pad in favor of a well-fitted 1” Kick-Ezz pad. Then it’s a different beast. We also customized the M600’s sighting system with a ‘sorta’ Ghost Ring receiver aperture. The aperture is mated to a modified front sight in order to achieve a 100-yd zero with factory ammo and equivalent handloads.

A 3-pt Ching sling was added for a tight hold in offhand and felt-recoil is actually manageable under field conditions, …. maybe less so after X number of rounds off the bench, but that applies to other magnum cartridges as well.

I‘ve also got a pristine example of the M600’s successor model, the 20” M660 in .350 RM.

Thus far, it’s had a similar facelift with a Kick-Ezz pad. Then the warping plastic trigger guard was replaced with an aluminum guard. We also fully channeled the barrel, bedded the action, and installed a Timney trigger. The factory front sight was replaced with one with a hi-viz bead. This thing shoots factory ammo like a layer. The irons are zeroed for 100-yds. It’s just awaiting the adding of QD rings and a low-powered scope.

 

[TOBY458]

Not if you tame it a bit, like we did, by ditching the M600’s old hard factory recoil pad in favor of a well-fitted 1” Kick-Ezz pad. Then it’s a different beast.

We also “customized” the sighting system. It’s a ‘sorta’ Ghost Ring receiver aperture mated to a modified front sight to achieve a 100-yd zero with factory ammo and equivalent handloads.

Add a 3-pt Ching sling for a tight hold in offhand and felt-recoil is actually manageable under field conditions, …. maybe less so after X number of rounds off the bench - but that applies to other magnum cartridges as well.

After all, the 350 Rem Mag has the same ballistics as a 35 Whelen. And no one complains that it's a hard recoiling caliber. So it's more about gun fit, gun weight and as you say, a proper recoil pad.

 

[Jack Stevens]

After all, the 350 Rem Mag has the same ballistics as a 35 Whelen. And no one complains that it's a hard recoiling caliber. So it's more about gun fit, gun weight and as you say, a proper recoil pad.

Absolutely.

 

[Jim Golden]

So, not to change the subject, but I'm building a .458 Lott on an A-Square Hannibal stock. M1917 Enfield action made by Winchester with a 26" McGowen barrel. I think it will be superior to the .404. I already have a 375 Weatherby that I shoot well and really like....I also built it on a M1917 Enfield Winchester action. I'm thinking if I can do a .458 Lott with manageable recoil, then that pretty well eclipses the .375 or the .404. Again, not to hijack the thread...just saying.... I think the .404 is a pretty cool cartridge and I'd like to have one. Also a .500 Jeffries would be cool too. I was going to do a .460 Weatherby or .500 A-Square but you guys talked me into the Lott....

 

[Jack Stevens]

So, not to change the subject, but I'm building a .458 Lott on an A-Square Hannibal stock. M1917 Enfield action made by Winchester with a 26" McGowen barrel. I think it will be superior to the .404. I already have a 375 Weatherby that I shoot well and really like....I also built it on a M1917 Enfield Winchester action. I'm thinking if I can do a .458 Lott with manageable recoil, then that pretty well eclipses the .375 or the .404. Again, not to hijack the thread...just saying.... I think the .404 is a pretty cool cartridge and I'd like to have one. Also a .500 Jeffries would be cool too. I was going to do a .460 Weatherby or .500 A-Square but you guys talked me into the Lott....

From the perspective of ease of component acquisition, a 458 Lott probably makes more sense now than the .404J when you’re talking about a ‘from-scratch’ build.

Back when my rifle was built .423/424 bullets and .404J brass were still available so I stocked up.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

I’m curious, How is it a 404 J sending a 400 gr bullet at 2100fps is the greatest thing ever and a 10.75x68 doing the same thing is useless?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

From the perspective of ease of component acquisition, a 458 Lott probably makes more sense now than the .404J when you’re talking about a ‘from-scratch’ build.

Back when my rifle was built .423/424 bullets and .404J brass were still available so I stocked up.

The big difference is a 404 can be built on a standard Mauser action whereas a 458 Lott must be built on a magnum action. Standard action is much easier to find and a whole lot cheaper.