35 Whelen

[Bush Buck]

You can easily go straight from .30 cal to .35 cal in one pass. If your brass is brittle, you might lose a couple to neck splits... annealing helps, of course, and it is incredibly easy to do.

I have quite a bit of once fired 30-06 brass and I'd like to resize to 35 Whelen and load it with a cheaper bullet for more "off the bench" rifle time. I'd rather not anneal and I'll probably toss the brass when it needs to be trimmed - I certainly won't trim it more than once.

On the other hand, I would like to know your "incredibly easy" annealing technique to maintain my favorite and less common brass.

 

[hoytcanon]

I have quite a bit of once fired 30-06 brass and I'd like to resize to 35 Whelen and load it with a cheaper bullet for more "off the bench" rifle time. I'd rather not anneal and I'll probably toss the brass when it needs to be trimmed - I certainly won't trim it more than once.

On the other hand, I would like to know your "incredibly easy" annealing technique to maintain my favorite and less common brass.

Easy Annealing, Tools required.

1. Television
2. Netflix password (you can use your brother-in-laws)
3. Search for a Clint Eastwood western movie of your choice... I recommend, "The Outlaw Josey Wales."
4. Propane solder torch, most people have them, if not they are cheap.
5. A bucket of cold water
6. A pair of leather gloves
7. A match

Step by step instructions;

- go to fridge, grab a beer
- go to cupboard grab a bag of Doritos
- sit in recliner and turn on movie
- place bucket and torch and bucket of brass at your feet
- take a sip of beer and a couple Doritos
- use match to light torch
- put on gloves, pick up brass between fingers and twirl it slowly with flame at shoulder junction for 6 seconds or until it starts to turn red, then drop in bucket of cold water
- take sip of beer and a couple Doritos
- repeat until brass is done, if your fingers get hot, lean back in recliner and take a few sips of beer and a few Doritos, and listen to old Indian say "You must endeavor to persevere."
- repeat until bucket of brass and beer and Doritos are empty

Congrats all your brass is annealed... and you are fat.

Special note; if you are right handed, place bucket of water to the right of the torch, if you are left handed place bucket of water to the left of the torch, if you like the smell of burnt hair, disregard this special note.

 

[Bush Buck]

I took 10 once fired Federal 30-06 cases and resized them to 35 Whelen using Lee dies. I split 3 necks. The force needed to resize was noticeable. I guess annealing is needed.

I've done the same thing for 338-06 and this is hardly different than reloading to 30-06.

 

[hoytcanon]

I took 10 once fired Federal 30-06 cases and resized them to 35 Whelen using Lee dies. I split 3 necks. The force needed to resize was noticeable. I guess annealing is needed.

I've done the same thing for 338-06 and this is hardly different than reloading to 30-06.

Couple things to note...

1. Chamfer the cases before sizing.
2. Lube not just inside the neck, but also the inside of the shoulder.

Do you know the history of that brass? Even without annealing, you should lose less than 10% due to split necks, when going from .308 to .358. Although that was a very small batch, so you may have just gotten unlucky.

 

[Inkgardener]

I took 10 once fired Federal 30-06 cases and resized them to 35 Whelen using Lee dies. I split 3 necks. The force needed to resize was noticeable. I guess annealing is needed.

I've done the same thing for 338-06 and this is hardly different than reloading to 30-06.

70% rate with Federal brass is great I think. Good lube and chamfer the case mouth, as Hoyt suggested.

I used 60’s era Match brass and was at 100% my first try.

 

[BFaucett]

I took 10 once fired Federal 30-06 cases and resized them to 35 Whelen using Lee dies. I split 3 necks. The force needed to resize was noticeable. I guess annealing is needed.

I've done the same thing for 338-06 and this is hardly different than reloading to 30-06.

Does the Lee die have a tapered neck expander?

Bob F.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I took 10 once fired Federal 30-06 cases and resized them to 35 Whelen using Lee dies. I split 3 necks. The force needed to resize was noticeable. I guess annealing is needed.

I've done the same thing for 338-06 and this is hardly different than reloading to 30-06.

@Bush Buck
I find it's better to use new brass as it hasn't been altered by firing.
You may have to anneal or do it in two steps, 338 then 35.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Does the Lee die have a tapered neck expander?

Bob F.

@BFaucett
Bob
Yes they do
Bob

 

[hoytcanon]

@Bush Buck
I find it's better to use new brass as it hasn't been altered by firing.
You may have to anneal or do it in two steps, 338 then 35.
Bob

I have done several different cartridges from .308 to .358 in one step. For my .375 WSM, I use .300 WSM brass and size to .358 in one step and then to .375 in a second step... I had about 10-12 neck splits per hundred, going from .308 all the way to .375... but once I started doing the first step to .358, that went down to 2 or 3 per hundred.

 

[Bush Buck]

Thanks for the suggestions.
This was Federal Power-Shok ammo that I fired. I may try again with another brand.

I'm sure new brass would work better but I'd probably put that money toward more 35 Whelen brass. I have a lot of once-fired 30-06 in original boxes.

I'll probably try the 2 step method going to 338 first with the other 10.
I'm using Imperial dry lube inside the necks.

 

[DG870]

Easy Annealing, Tools required.

1. Television
2. Netflix password (you can use your brother-in-laws)
3. Search for a Clint Eastwood western movie of your choice... I recommend, "The Outlaw Josey Wales."
4. Propane solder torch, most people have them, if not they are cheap.
5. A bucket of cold water
6. A pair of leather gloves
7. A match

Step by step instructions;

- go to fridge, grab a beer
- go to cupboard grab a bag of Doritos
- sit in recliner and turn on movie
- place bucket and torch and bucket of brass at your feet
- take a sip of beer and a couple Doritos
- use match to light torch
- put on gloves, pick up brass between fingers and twirl it slowly with flame at shoulder junction for 6 seconds or until it starts to turn red, then drop in bucket of cold water
- take sip of beer and a couple Doritos
- repeat until brass is done, if your fingers get hot, lean back in recliner and take a few sips of beer and a few Doritos, and listen to old Indian say "You must endeavor to persevere."
- repeat until bucket of brass and beer and Doritos are empty

Congrats all your brass is annealed... and you are fat.

Special note; if you are right handed, place bucket of water to the right of the torch, if you are left handed place bucket of water to the left of the torch, if you like the smell of burnt hair, disregard this special note.

I use a similar method except I dont heat the brass to red hot. I slowly turn the brass with the tip of the flame on the mouth of the case and I watch for the straw/blue color to travel just past the shoulder of the case. I also don’t wear gloves - this ensures that I don’t overheat the case - it gets too hot so I have to drop it .

 

[hoytcanon]

I use a similar method except I dont heat the brass to red hot. I slowly turn the brass with the tip of the flame on the mouth of the case and I watch for the straw/blue color to travel just past the shoulder of the case. I also don’t wear gloves - this ensures that I don’t overheat the case - it gets too hot so I have to drop it .

If you aren't wearing gloves you aren't doing many brass... I do a batch of 3-400 at a time... do that without gloves and they won't be able to identify your body.

 

[DG870]

I don’t do too many at a time - 50 to 100 and I don’t anneal often enough to buy an annealer. I shoot a 338-06 and a 35 Whelen and I anneal 30-06 brass before forming the new case. I don’t have problems with getting burned. The 30-06 case is long enough that if you hold the base and get the neck hot enough, fast enough the base of the case stays cool. I recently annealed 100 6mm ARC cases and ended up using a pair of pliers because the short case got too warm to hold bare handed.

 

[cajunchefray]

I use a similar method except I dont heat the brass to red hot. I slowly turn the brass with the tip of the flame on the mouth of the case and I watch for the straw/blue color to travel just past the shoulder of the case. I also don’t wear gloves - this ensures that I don’t overheat the case - it gets too hot so I have to drop it .

This is the method I use. I don't anneal often ( i need to reload and shoot more!), but using this method, bare handed holding the case, I look for the color change, while sensing the heating of the base. When it gets hot at the base, the neck color has changed and drop it in water. That way, the lower base of the brass is not affected.

 

[Pasme]

I owned one for a number of years. It appeared to shoot everything well, making it the easiest rifle for which I have ever developed a load. It wasn't exactly fun shooting heavy bullets at full house loads.

On a few occasions, I went elk hunting with it, but we never connected. It works great, and I've used it to shoot a few deer. An attempt was made to replicate the Whelen in a short action with the.350 Rem Mag.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don’t do too many at a time - 50 to 100 and I don’t anneal often enough to buy an annealer. I shoot a 338-06 and a 35 Whelen and I anneal 30-06 brass before forming the new case. I don’t have problems with getting burned. The 30-06 case is long enough that if you hold the base and get the neck hot enough, fast enough the base of the case stays cool. I recently annealed 100 6mm ARC cases and ended up using a pair of pliers because the short case got too warm to hold bare handed.

@DG870
That's why I made my own induction annealed for less than $200US
It can anneal a Whelen case ( I use only Remington in all calibres) in 3.6 sec, 303 cases to be made into my 25 in 2.4 sec and 22 Hornet cases to be made into K Hornet in 1.6 sec
Fast and easy and very accurate. I use 700degree temolaq to get the timing right. Yes I lose one case but once I know the time I can set it down to a hundredth of a second if need be.
My sons 308 Federal cases take 3.2 seconds.
Each brand takes a different time depending on the brass that's where the temolaq comes in useful. Start with a low time and work up in half second increments. If it gets to hot I go down 0.2-0.3 seconds to establish the correct application.
Bob

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I have shot a couple dozen elk and moose with my .35 Whelens and mostly 250 grain bullets. Never used one on African game, but for animals the size of Kudu or Gemsbok or Zebra I can't see a need or a real use for a heavier bullet. The 250 grain at 2500 fps from my rifles is always effective and with tough bullets I usually get exits even after breaking humerus or scapula. I have had especially good results with the old Speer grand slam, but even lowly Hornady sp interlock work well at the Whelen's velocity. Full penetration to the far side of big critters. Not sure how a heavier 280 gr. A-Frame would work better? I don't like most bullets lighter than 250 gr. in the Whelen. I have had poor results with the Sierra 225, erratic expansion. 200 gr. Rem and Hornady bullets expand too quickly and penetration suffers. Good "deer" sized bullets though. Barnes TSX 225's are a reasonable choice if looking for a little more speed with good penetration. One bull elk I shot with Federal factory loaded TTBC 225 gr. had both humerus bones in the shoulders crushed and the bullet exited. Vitals were mush. That seems like a good load.

Interesting thread here. Being a die hard fan of the 358 Winchester I'll throw my 2 cents in here. My rifle really likes 225grn bullets. I've chronographed them at 2520fps from a 22in. barrel using W748. No pressure signs and 1 finger bolt lift and extraction. Groups have been 3/4in. Handloading you can exceed factory loads safely but not excessively. As I've said many a time, chase accuracy over velocity.
Oh by the way Zim, I'll stick to my left hand 9.3X62 also as my favorite medium bore.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I owned one for a number of years. It appeared to shoot everything well, making it the easiest rifle for which I have ever developed a load. It wasn't exactly fun shooting heavy bullets at full house loads.

On a few occasions, I went elk hunting with it, but we never connected. It works great, and I've used it to shoot a few deer. An attempt was made to replicate the Whelen in a short action with the.350 Rem Mag.

@Pasme
Depends on what you call heavy bullets at full house loads.
A factory 250 @ 2,450fps is a pussy cat but stoke the same bullet up to 2,700fps with a dose of CFE223 and you will notice a difference.
A 310gn at 2,455 fps gets your attention as well but still quite pleasant.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Personally, I think 250 grains is optimal for the medium .35 cal cartridges.

@hoytcanon
Ain't nought wrong with a big 310 grainer at over 2,400fps. That should take care of anything big that a sane person would shoot.
Dang even hefalump was shot with 300s in the 350 Rigby magnum back in the day and it dropped them.
Bob

 

[CZDiesel]

@hoytcanon
Ain't nought wrong with a big 310 grainer at over 2,400fps. That should take care of anything big that a sane person would shoot.
Dang even hefalump was shot with 300s in the 350 Rigby magnum back in the day and it dropped them.
Bob

Of course a 338WinMag will throw that 300gr round 150fps faster with a better SD