28 gauge youth?

[HankBuck]

I've not found that to be the case. All my children use break actions and have since they were 6 or 7. Buying a used one whether a Spanish/English side by side, or a used Beretta 686 O/U, they open by gravity. One of my clan struggled to overcome the southgate ejector resistance when he was little, but figured out in one day to put the stock under his arm and get a bit more leverage.

As to getting hit in the face by hulls, its almost always the kids. The entitled, unsafe, kids. I pay good money to join private clubs and almost all the grown ups figured out that you can't shoot five stand without hitting your neighbor with hulls using pumps and side by sides, and its very annoying watching them gather their ejecta between rounds which holds up the game. (IF they pick up the hulls at all)

As it pertains to the exceptions, people that claim they or their kid is very safe with their pump or auto, I find most of them unaware of their lack of safety. I've been pointed at and swung through hundreds of times by people that have no comprehension of their muzzle. It makes me want to turn their gun into a "Break action" in front of their very eyes.

So as pertains to me, remember I'm a curmudgeon. I don't like badly behaved dogs and children. (most of them) There is nothing cute about them to me. Most people feel the same way but aren't so blunt and direct about it. Everybody at the club is thinking it, I'm saying it. Get kids a break action gun and raise young ladies and gentlemen.

ROOKHAWK: Just can’t find any reason to argue against the “safety” of either any SxS, O/U, or Semi & Pump regarding Muzzle direction-safe pointing etc…—-ALL muzzles MUST always point in a “SAFE direction”. Agree autos//Pumps require some attention regarding how many shells should be loaded and “one” round is enough for Beginners. As far as getting hit in the Face with ejected Hulls - have seen it occasionally during a round of skeet (by adults) but never on a round of 5 Stand —- how close our your stands? Or how big are the “Faces”? Cleaning up the hulls — gotta agree with you there as they can be rolling all over the place after a round. At my skeet club - you must pick up your hulls “after” round is over OR before you leave the Club — also when No active round is being shot. Any Kid (or any Adult) seen being “Unsafe” gets immediately warned or removed from the Club. If it’s a Member they can be suspended and if it’s a “Guest” then the Guest AND Member both are warned and or removed/suspended. The few beginning kids I’ve watched are monitored very closely - New adults seem less “obedient“ then Kids and think they know better….Kids lack the ego and admit they are beginners. Seeing any kid with a SxS is very rare and don’t recall ever seeing a Kid shoot a SxS for Skeet or Sporting Clays

 

[rookhawk]

ROOKHAWK: Just can’t find any reason to argue against the “safety” of either any SxS, O/U, or Semi & Pump regarding Muzzle direction-safe pointing etc…—-ALL muzzles MUST always point in a “SAFE direction”. Agree autos//Pumps require some attention regarding how many shells should be loaded and “one” round is enough for Beginners. As far as getting hit in the Face with ejected Hulls - have seen it occasionally during a round of skeet (by adults) but never on a round of 5 Stand —- how close our your stands? Or how big are the “Faces”? Cleaning up the hulls — gotta agree with you there as they can be rolling all over the place after a round. At my skeet club - you must pick up your hulls “after” round is over OR before you leave the Club — also when No active round is being shot. Any Kid (or any Adult) seen being “Unsafe” gets immediately warned or removed from the Club. If it’s a Member they can be suspended and if it’s a “Guest” then the Guest AND Member both are warned and or removed/suspended. The few beginning kids I’ve watched are monitored very closely - New adults seem less “obedient“ then Kids and think they know better….Kids lack the ego and admit they are beginners. Seeing any kid with a SxS is very rare and don’t recall ever seeing a Kid shoot a SxS for Skeet or Sporting Clays

Five-stand is an indoor sport up here in the great white north. Winter league. The stations are very close to one another.

Agree, most children do not shoot SxS guns. High quality SxS guns can be had quite reasonably, hence I mentioned them. A citori or 686 is a fully functional O/U if that is preferred. In 20 gauge form, a child can operate them. When bought used, the 26" barrel, short stocked varieties sell at a serious deficit.

 

[HankBuck]

Five-stand is an indoor sport up here in the great white north. Winter league. The stations are very close to one another.

Agree, most children do not shoot SxS guns. High quality SxS guns can be had quite reasonably, hence I mentioned them. A citori or 686 is a fully functional O/U if that is preferred. In 20 gauge form, a child can operate them. When bought used, the 26" barrel, short stocked varieties sell at a serious deficit.

ROOK: Can’t believe you can shoot 5 Stand indoors — thats great

 

[rookhawk]

ROOK: Can’t believe you can shoot 5 Stand indoors — thats great

C'mon up. This is becoming the new thing in Northern climates! They put you under prime rib roasters and open the clubhouse windows. You can literally shoot 5-stand when its -20F outside!

But at any rate, whether we're talking about 5 stand or sporting clays, basically any game where you stand in a stall, it's super helpful and polite to be able to catch your shells. It's also fairly difficult to load and unload a pump or autoloader because there are vertical boards, walls, or window frames to your left and right. Its great to let a kid start out with confidence in their ability to manage their gun.

I in no way claim to be superdad, but I never want to be the dad thats kids are getting critiqued at a gun club or on a hunt. I'm a huge fan of break actions because they don't have to contend with an "unbreakable" action that is sweeping around the room or field even when unloaded.

I also love the fact you can shoot 2", 2.5", 2.75" shells in break action guns. When you're starting out with little kids, its wonderful to put short chambered shells in their hands that cut recoil considerably. Short shells don't feed in pumps and autoloaders, forcing a kid to endure more recoil, or to force them into an awkwardly ineffective .410.

The OP is right, a 28 bore is the finest gauge possible, ideal for pheasant and all upland game, but with virtually no recoil. Unfortunately, their costs are quite high and children cannot typically afford multi-thousand dollar guns. Hence, I suggested a 20 bore break action gun with 28-bore equivalent recoil is the compromise between cost/weight/recoil.

Going with a pump or autoloader, we're right back into the issue of shells. You're stuck with higher power shells because short chambered shells won't feed and load correctly. In autoloaders, full length shells with lighter loads will not cycle the actions correctly.

Rookhawk's conclusion: break action guns and low recoil shells for the parenting win.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I’m currently looking for one of these for my boy.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/mossberg-international-sa-28-bantam-compact-matte-blued-28-gauge-2-34in-semi-automatic-shotgun-24in/p/1506665

 

[WAB]

C'mon up. This is becoming the new thing in Northern climates! They put you under prime rib roasters and open the clubhouse windows. You can literally shoot 5-stand when its -20F outside!

But at any rate, whether we're talking about 5 stand or sporting clays, basically any game where you stand in a stall, it's super helpful and polite to be able to catch your shells. It's also fairly difficult to load and unload a pump or autoloader because there are vertical boards, walls, or window frames to your left and right. Its great to let a kid start out with confidence in their ability to manage their gun.

I in no way claim to be superdad, but I never want to be the dad thats kids are getting critiqued at a gun club or on a hunt. I'm a huge fan of break actions because they don't have to contend with an "unbreakable" action that is sweeping around the room or field even when unloaded.

I also love the fact you can shoot 2", 2.5", 2.75" shells in break action guns. When you're starting out with little kids, its wonderful to put short chambered shells in their hands that cut recoil considerably. Short shells don't feed in pumps and autoloaders, forcing a kid to endure more recoil, or to force them into an awkwardly ineffective .410.

The OP is right, a 28 bore is the finest gauge possible, ideal for pheasant and all upland game, but with virtually no recoil. Unfortunately, their costs are quite high and children cannot typically afford multi-thousand dollar guns. Hence, I suggested a 20 bore break action gun with 28-bore equivalent recoil is the compromise between cost/weight/recoil.

Going with a pump or autoloader, we're right back into the issue of shells. You're stuck with higher power shells because short chambered shells won't feed and load correctly. In autoloaders, full length shells with lighter loads will not cycle the actions correctly.

Rookhawk's conclusion: break action guns and low recoil shells for the parenting win.

You guys are very civilized. When I shot at Fort Richardson we had a forty below patch for those of us dumb enough to shoot a round of skeet at -40! You go as fast as you can with just one shooter. Every shot hurts!

 

[Slope77]

I’m not at home at the moment, so I will post again later. As I recall, I have a Weatherby SA-08 in a youth model and Tristar Viper in a 20 gauge youth. We haven’t used them heavily, but both seem to be good guns. In fact, they may be made by the same Turkish company.

The only other thing that I would add is that there didn’t seem to be much recoil difference between the two. My son even thought the 20 gauge recoiled less. Very little difference in weight. So if you are going semi-auto, I’m not sure that the 28 ga will provide much benefit over the 20, and in some ways less.

I wish I had them both in 20 gauge now - I worry about kids mixing up shells when hunting.

 

[Slope77]

Now you have me thinking, was that a weatherby or a mossberg. I know one is a Tristar.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I’m not at home at the moment, so I will post again later. As I recall, I have a Weatherby SA-08 in a youth model and Tristar Viper in a 20 gauge youth. We haven’t used them heavily, but both seem to be good guns. In fact, they may be made by the same Turkish company.

The only other thing that I would add is that there didn’t seem to be much recoil difference between the two. My son even thought the 20 gauge recoiled less. Very little difference in weight. So if you are going semi-auto, I’m not sure that the 28 ga will provide much benefit over the 20, and in some ways less.

I wish I had them both in 20 gauge now - I worry about kids mixing up shells when hunting.

Well...Its been awhile seen I taught on the subject of the different shells and improper shell to gauge loading. But if I remember correctly...

if one is a 12 gauge and the other is a 20 gauge mixing up shells could be a bit of a problem if loading a 20 gauge into the 12 gauge. The 20 gauge will go to far into the chamber for the firing pin to hit the primer. The 20 gauge rim won't catch where the 12 gauge rim catches.

Trying to load a 12 gauge into a 20 gauge will instantly be notice as it will take force to get the shell which likely wont go into the 20 gauge chamber and the action is not likely to fully close.

Loading a 28 gauge into a 20 or 12 gauge the 28 gauge will just slide down and out the barrels of the 20 and 12 gauges.

Any time one moves up in gauge there are benefits. More power, more shot, more range, more choices in types of shells, etc. But also comes more recoil, more bulk, and possibly more weight. Especially when moving up from a 410 or 28 gauge to a 20 or 12 gauge.

I've omitted the 16 and 10 gauges as they aren't as common as they once were.

 

[mdsalern]

Wait. There is a reason you can’t find a shotgun small enough for her. She’s not big enough to hold the shotgun or handle the recoil. You’re setting her up for failure. She will get thumped and not want to shoot anymore.

Take her and the .22 to hunt things you can hunt with a .22. Go to the range. She wants to spend time with dad, so spend time together and enjoy.

 

[rookhawk]

Wait. There is a reason you can’t find a shotgun small enough for her. She’s not big enough to hold the shotgun or handle the recoil. You’re setting her up for failure. She will get thumped and not want to shoot anymore.

Take her and the .22 to hunt things you can hunt with a .22. Go to the range. She wants to spend time with dad, so spend time together and enjoy.

While I don't agree about the "too young" sentiment, you are correct about fit.

"Youth" in the modern, ridiculous definition means nearly adult. Youth guns are typically fit for a 5'8" to 5"10" person with a 13.5" Length of Pull. That was the average size of an adult shotgun two generations ago.

I recommend the lightest and shortest shotgun one can find, and then counter that recoil with short chambered subsonic shells. a 7/8 oz load at 5800psi moving at 1050fps is very mild.

 

[mdsalern]

Rookhawk, I said nothing about age.

 

[Slope77]

Ok, my 20 ga is a Tristar Viper. The 28 ga is a Mossberg SA-28. Both made in Turkey by Armsan. As I recall, both came with an adult-size buttstock as well. Nothing fancy, but functioning is good.

I don't necessarily love a semi-auto action for beginners, but it sure does help with recoil. I originally had a little 28 ga pump for my oldest. It only weighed about 5 1/4 lbs, and the level of recoil was surprising. She did not like it, so I moved to the semi autos.

As I said, we haven’t used them a lot, but they have worked well. I think you said this is for your daughter. I have a son and two daughters. Sometimes it seems that conventional stock styles accentuate recoil for females. Just something about how their neck/shoulders/face come together.

One of my daughters seems particularly affected by this. It just doesn’t seem that she can get a good cheek weld. There are a couple of companies that make stick-on cheek pieces to raise the comb. I bought a couple but haven’t tried it with her yet.

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, I said nothing about age.

I inferred age. You said she’s too small and the recoil will be too much, etc. I can show you photos of 4 and 5 year old English nobles holding tiny little shotguns from the Victorian and Edwardian era. There is a gun that will fit if The child is emotionally ready. It just wouldn’t be an off the shelf gun.

7-10 year old kid, good fitting gun:




9-10 year old kid, terrible fitting gun. (Youth auto loader)

 

[black tail]

Tri star has a lot of guns in that segment that are worth a look. You’re going to get a lot for your money with them and some models have spacers where they can grow with the gun. I wish Beretta made a youth model in the a300 ultima but they don’t, you have to step up to the a400 but you’re talking serious money with those and most people aren’t going to spend well over $1000 for a youth shotgun.

 

[mdsalern]

You inferred incorrectly. I stand by what I wrote. Look at the picture. She isn’t physically ready yet.

Axle, bring your daughter and the .22 to Texas. Y’all can hunt turkeys here together.

 

[Axle2010]

You inferred incorrectly. I stand by what I wrote. Look at the picture. She isn’t physically ready yet.

Axle, bring your daughter and the .22 to Texas. Y’all can hunt turkeys here together.

You can hunt turkeys with a 22 in Tx?

 

[mdsalern]

Beyond some exceptions, it is legal to use a .22. Common practice when shooting turkeys here is to headshot them when using a rifle.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Beyond some exceptions, it is legal to use a .22. Common practice when shooting turkeys here is to headshot them when using a rifle.

Me thinks this is an attempt to find a crack shot for a remake of the movie Sergeant York. (turkey shoot segment)