270 grain Barnes LRX (375 H&H) for Buffalo??

[IvW]

strong second to all the folks that recommended 300 grain out of the .375 H&H.
there is no reason to go light on a heavy animal!

all copper bullets are great for some things but i have seen them fail and it has caused problems on buffalo for me personally - i give the edge to Swift when it comes to the best bullet for your first shot on a cape buffalo.

My experiences exactly....and very sound advice..........

 

[MLindsay]

I have been using the original 270 grain Barnes X since 97 never used the tsx in my 375 since I had hundreds of reloaded rounds. My velocity is 2750 and with that have taken over 50 African game. Last summer wanted to track with bushman trackers in Botswana so I just hunted 2 eland. Took both of them at a little over 100 yards, the first was dead with the first shot but added 2 more as he was stumbling around. The first shot was a pass through in the shoulder. The second eland was a 1 shot kill with a pass through in the shoulder. That being said, I would easily hunt cape buffalo with that 375 load if I did not have a 450 Ackley and a 500 A Square to reach for.

 

[Willem le Clus]

Howizit guys,
Interesting read so far. I just shot my 375 Ruger with 350 gr Rhino's. Got speeds from 2263 to 2279 fps - up and down - with our local powders (Somchem S365) Not ideal. Big variation in speed. So have to wait until they are online again. Will update when I find some speeds s355 or s 341. Will put the Ruger up there I think . Ruger Alaskan 20 "

 

[IvW]

Howizit guys,
Interesting read so far. I just shot my 375 Ruger with 350 gr Rhino's. Got speeds from 2263 to 2279 fps - up and down - with our local powders (Somchem S365) Not ideal. Big variation in speed. So have to wait until they are online again. Will update when I find some speeds s355 or s 341. Will put the Ruger up there I think . Ruger Alaskan 20 "

Use S355

 

[bruce moulds]

Howizit guys,
Interesting read so far. I just shot my 375 Ruger with 350 gr Rhino's. Got speeds from 2263 to 2279 fps - up and down - with our local powders (Somchem S365) Not ideal. Big variation in speed. So have to wait until they are online again. Will update when I find some speeds s355 or s 341. Will put the Ruger up there I think . Ruger Alaskan 20 "

16 fps extreme spread.
this would translate to about 5 or 6 fps std deviation.
that is extremely good for 10+ shots.
given that 100, 200, and 300 yd benchresters do not even worry about this, and palma shooters (800, 900, and 1000 yds) look for std deviations less than 10, you are doing pretty well.
added to which, the main factors that affect velocity variation do not include powder choice.
changing primers can help, as can charge wts.
other things include case case capacity consistency, neck thickness, and the temper of annealing in necks, which in part relate to neck tension consistency.
if you want to turn your necks and get seriously into annealing, weigh your brass etc, go for it.
you will have to batch your brass and keep it in those batches, all fired the same no of times.
oh, and you might have to jam your bullets 0.010" or thereabouts into the rifling.
is this good for hunting rifle reliability, and will they fit the mag?
nothing like opening the bolt on a loaded round, leaving the bullet stuck in the throat, and getting powder in your locking lug recesses out in the bush where you can't clean it out.
be happy with your load if it is at max SAFE pressure. it does not get much better than that in custom tight necked chambers, let alone factory ones.
the powder that gives the fastest speeds at the same pressure is what to look for, particularly in a calibre like 375.
bruce.

 

[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

I would say go with a 300gr Barnes or A-frame i prefer the latter out of my 375H&H. Depending on the area you will hunt and species other than Buffalo you should not shoot out further than 200 yards. If the hunting is done right then your shots should vary anywhere from 50 to 150 yards. and with the 300gr bullet it will hit where you put the cross hairs over that distance

My best
Gerrit

 

[Willem le Clus]

16 fps extreme spread.
this would translate to about 5 or 6 fps std deviation.
that is extremely good for 10+ shots.
given that 100, 200, and 300 yd benchresters do not even worry about this, and palma shooters (800, 900, and 1000 yds) look for std deviations less than 10, you are doing pretty well.
added to which, the main factors that affect velocity variation do not include powder choice.
changing primers can help, as can charge wts.
other things include case case capacity consistency, neck thickness, and the temper of annealing in necks, which in part relate to neck tension consistency.
if you want to turn your necks and get seriously into annealing, weigh your brass etc, go for it.
you will have to batch your brass and keep it in those batches, all fired the same no of times.
oh, and you might have to jam your bullets 0.010" or thereabouts into the rifling.
is this good for hunting rifle reliability, and will they fit the mag?
nothing like opening the bolt on a loaded round, leaving the bullet stuck in the throat, and getting powder in your locking lug recesses out in the bush where you can't clean it out.
be happy with your load if it is at max SAFE pressure. it does not get much better than that in custom tight necked chambers, let alone factory ones.
the powder that gives the fastest speeds at the same pressure is what to look for, particularly in a calibre like 375.
bruce.

Hi Bruce ,
Typo there, should read 2163 to 2279 fps. Noted your advice, thank you
Willem

 

[Nhoro]

Something to consider- a bullet that stops inside the animal has transferred all of its energy into the animal in the form of damage to the animals organs. A bullet that passes through leaves the animal with a certain amount of energy has wasted energy because it has no purpose or work to do.

As a general rule then, given the same impact energy,a pass through will do less damage. If you increase the energy, you increase the failure percentage of all bullets-it is simple physics and engineering- more stress and strain =more failure.

So copper monometal bullets are tougher so they can be driven faster and then they lose their reliability advantage. So you increase the strength of the bullet and negate this by driving the bullet faster. You also increase the energy of the bullet and negate this by wasting the extra energy in sending a bullet whining off into the countryside. The main problem experienced with monometal softs is that they OCCASIONALLY don't open at moderate velocities. Monometal bullets that expand with 100 % reliability at moderate velocities would probably have a strong following but manufacturers have chosen to go in a different direction - higher velocity both sells and fixes the reliable opening problem.

Then we have to look at recoil and if we can even hit a reasonable target at 300 m with a large bore rifle. And do it from shooting sticks or a field position- not prone with a tripod or off the bench. I don't think many of us are capable of a 6" group at 300 m with our large bore rifle, I am pretty sure I can't do it with my Lott even if I added a scope. That is something like a 2" group at 100 m ???

Also, a 270 gr at 2800 fps, offers you about 2" less bullet drop tat 300 m as compared to a 300 gr at 2500 fps with a 200 yard zero. I would suggest that it is a pretty insignificant advantage for lighter bullets. Recoil and simple shooting ability with a large bore are going to make more than a 2" difference. And jack of all trades is master of none-do you set up your gun for the 300 m shot at a springbok or the 50 m shot at a buffalo ? Buffalo could hit your wallet pretty hard- and you might still have that wallet in your pocket !

African PH's are not being ostriches and ignoring modern bullets- we africans can have a good understanding of ballistics. We are saying that high velocity,long range buffalo bullets are a solution without a problem.

 

[IvW]

Something to consider- a bullet that stops inside the animal has transferred all of its energy into the animal in the form of damage to the animals organs. A bullet that passes through leaves the animal with a certain amount of energy has wasted energy because it has no purpose or work to do.

As a general rule then, given the same impact energy,a pass through will do less damage. If you increase the energy, you increase the failure percentage of all bullets-it is simple physics and engineering- more stress and strain =more failure.

So copper monometal bullets are tougher so they can be driven faster and then they lose their reliability advantage. So you increase the strength of the bullet and negate this by driving the bullet faster. You also increase the energy of the bullet and negate this by wasting the extra energy in sending a bullet whining off into the countryside. The main problem experienced with monometal softs is that they OCCASIONALLY don't open at moderate velocities. Monometal bullets that expand with 100 % reliability at moderate velocities would probably have a strong following but manufacturers have chosen to go in a different direction - higher velocity both sells and fixes the reliable opening problem.

Then we have to look at recoil and if we can even hit a reasonable target at 300 m with a large bore rifle. And do it from shooting sticks or a field position- not prone with a tripod or off the bench. I don't think many of us are capable of a 6" group at 300 m with our large bore rifle, I am pretty sure I can't do it with my Lott even if I added a scope. That is something like a 2" group at 100 m ???

Also, a 270 gr at 2800 fps, offers you about 2" less bullet drop tat 300 m as compared to a 300 gr at 2500 fps with a 200 yard zero. I would suggest that it is a pretty insignificant advantage for lighter bullets. Recoil and simple shooting ability with a large bore are going to make more than a 2" difference. And jack of all trades is master of none-do you set up your gun for the 300 m shot at a springbok or the 50 m shot at a buffalo ? Buffalo could hit your wallet pretty hard- and you might still have that wallet in your pocket !

African PH's are not being ostriches and ignoring modern bullets- we africans can have a good understanding of ballistics. We are saying that high velocity,long range buffalo bullets are a solution without a problem.

What?

 

[flatwater bill]

Trooper94..........good question and thread. Although your initial question was posed more than a year ago, I was unable to find any reports of a hunter using the 270 grain LRX on a buffalo. Lots of Barnes 270 grainers used in 375H&H's, but not the LRX. I see that Barnes recommends it for buff. Lots of interesting opinions and experiences expressed here. I have no dog in the hunt, but thanks for posting.....FWB

 

[RayAtkinson]

I don't know why anyone would have a problem on buffalo with a 270 gr. Barnes X, it will out penetrated a bonded core 300 gr bullet in a .375 .. Ive used it on buffalo and Hippo with outstanding results...do I prefer the 300 gr. ?? I do in a partition, bonded core, or Hornaday interlock for instance. Id like to know what some of this advise is based on and why they would think the 270 Barnes X or GS customs isn't buffalo medicine, perhaps they been reading too many gun rags...

 

[RayAtkinson]

I better add I have no experience with the LDX, and Im sure the forward portion is more fragile, but Im betting the rest of that bullet will leave and exit hole in a buffalo, Barnes bullets seem to do that, but again I recommend the TSX as Ive used it enough, strange thing is Im not fond of barnes bullets on PG and NA deer and antelope in lighter calibers, preferring Accubonds and partitions...

 

[schwerpunkt88]

It's funny to read people assert with great and sage conviction, how a 300 grain bullet is much better than a 270 grain bullet when the difference in overall mass is less than that of a standard .22 rimfire bullet. I would expect shot placement, bullet construction, and the temperament of the particular animal on the receiving end have more to do with the end result than mass when the difference is so small.

Different topic, anyone have experience with Hornady 250 grain CX? Anyone have a load they like with Reloader 15? Thanks

 

[Justbryan]

"Different topic, anyone have experience with Hornady 250 grain CX?"

I just bought a bunch of Hornady 200 grain CX for my 300WSM. I am curious about CX also and interested in 250 grain CX for my 375 H&H for Eland, Giraffe, Hippo, Plains Game, etc.

 

[Ridgewalker]

A little additional Barnes info. Sectional density is what aids in penetration. The 270 grain is .274 while the 300 is .305. It has been written that the 375 caliber is the minimum you should consider for Cape buffalo. Having only taken one and it was with my 375 H&H, I can understand both the caliber and minimum SD recommendations.

Justbryan and schwerpunkt88, I have not used the Hornady CX, but used nothing but the 250 Barnes TTSX on one trip taking croc (because it was my most accurate accurate load), eland (a true giant), and down to caracal with several sizes PG between. If the CX performs like the TTSX and shoots accurately in your rifle, it should work well for you. I have never taken a giraffe, but you should be able to get enough penetration I would think. May be light for breaking their heavy shoulder bones though. My only experience was seeing one shot with an old style DGX out of a 458 Lott which blew up on the skin with little penetration. The guys father dropped it with a shot to the neck with a 9.3x62 286 gr.

But hippo have major skulls if you plan on a brain shot and they are really thick for heart/lung shots. Personally I would use at least a 300 with the higher SD to help get to the vitals. But I haven’t taken a hippo either, only seen them and their skulls.

As usual I highly recommend Dr Kevin Robertson’s book “Perfect Shot” for tons of experienced info on where to shoot Africa‘s game and what and why to use certain cartridges and bullets.

For how much it costs to hunt Africa and how much each animal costs, I don’t want to be under gunned nor under quality of bullet for what ever I might have an opportunity.
JMO&E

 

[schwerpunkt88]

Thank you Ridgewalker,

Bullet sectional density is simply a product of the mass of the bullet divided by its cross sectional area. The cross sectional area, when comparing 375 H&H to 375 H&H is constant. It would stand to reason a 300 grain bullet would have a greater sectional density than a 270 grain bullet because truly, what we are talking about in the 300 grain bullet is a bullet that is heavier...by 30 grains. We've come full circle.

All things being equal and assuming we're squeezing what we can out of the cartridge, the 270 grain bullet is moving with higher velocity. If it holds together, as the monolithic bullets tend to, I'd guess penetration would be better with the 270 grain bullet travelling the same path through the game animal.

As we all know, these arguments have been going on for as long as people have built metal tubes and stuffed powder and lead into them. My point was I find it interesting how absolutely convinced some folks are that 30 grains (traveling slower) make that much difference for an animal that weighs 2000 lbs.

The real question I had was about the Hornady CX and what people thought. Honestly, I'm a huge fan of Barnes bullets, but they are very difficult to find. Midway is constantly sold out of 375 caliber in Barnes and 130 grain 270 caliber LRX bullets as well. Very frustrating and I'm not sure why Barnes does not crank up production a bit to meet obvious demand. The 250 grain Hornady CX bullet looked to be very similar, so I thought I'd give it a try.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Yep I see lots of 300 Barnes, but nothing smaller.

 

[Andrew62]

I've taken several cape buffalo with Barnes TSX and one with Hornady DGX. In fact, I was on a buffalo hunt in Zim years ago, the outfitter said he had a tuskless cow elephant permit available, so I took one with Barnes TSX. Barnes, along with Swift Aframe, all work well. Shoot what you can find, Barnes are very easy to come by right now.

 

[Graham Hunter]

I just bought a bunch of Hornady 200 grain CX for my 300WSM. I am curious about CX also and interested in 250 grain CX for my 375 H&H for Eland, Giraffe, Hippo, Plains Game, etc.

I have used the CX in 6.5, 7mm and 270. I like them better than Barnes TSX or TTSX. Less fouling, little better accuracy and I get the same velocity with a little less powder. Most shot are a pass thru from Moose to Kudu, Warthog, Deer etc.

 

[Justbryan]

I have used the CX in 6.5, 7mm and 270. I like them better than Barnes TSX or TTSX. Less fouling, little better accuracy and I get the same velocity with a little less powder. Most shot are a pass thru from Moose to Kudu, Warthog, Deer etc.

This is excellent to hear. I will give them a try. I have experienced the TSX and TTSX not shooting as well in my 300 WSM.