.223 Remington in Africa?

[siml]

I would easy go up to a nyala with 223. Not sure which bullets you would use, but if you using softs, you going to damage the small critters skins.

 

[enysse]

I have a 270 Win in a Rem 700 that likes the original Barnes X bullets and I think it would be ideal for the small antelope. I'll probably bring it when I want to start the quest again.
I could see using my Ruger M77 in a .223 if the shots were close.

 

[PeteG]

BillC's thread on the tiny ten got me to thinking.......there are a lot of smaller critters in Africa that are worth hunting, not just "big game".
Caracal, jackal, Serval, duiker, steenbok, klipspringer, monkeys.......I was wondering if anyone here has taken a rifle chambered in .223 and used it to hunt these species.....might be fun!!
On a side note, what would be the largest critter you would use this cartridge on (for humane kills)? Currently using an AR platform to hunt 'yotes and other predators, but thinking about adding a bolt action to the stable.

A 223 would be perfect for all of the smalls, with a soft point - skin damage, with a solid - careful shot placement or a possible lost animal.

Largest in my opinion would be puku sized, thats about 150lbs or so.

You could definitely go larger if you start talking head shots, lion could even be on the list then... but lets not go down that road this morning!!

 

[dory]

I will take some logic from the 45-70 in africa thread and say sure the 223 will work but there are many better options available.

No there is not !!!
250 yrd behind the ear , really !!!!!!!
Learn how to shoot brother .

 

[Red Leg]

No there is not !!!
250 yrd behind the ear , really !!!!!!!
Learn how to shoot brother .

Believe it or not, some of us here have as much rifle time as do you, and aren't sold on .22 cal for big game. I suspect several in the audience can shoot as well as you. For twenty-nine years, the .223 was my working caliber. Will it kill - of course. Were I culling my ranch - sure why not. If on the other hand, I am a paying client, then I want to do everything in my power to make sure I am not paying for merely a drop of blood. The .223 is a pretty marginal man killer. It wounds effectively, which is often as good or even better than a kill, but it is inferior in combat to the .308. It's one advantage is round carrying capacity - the average soldier can carry 50 - 100% more 5.56 than he can 7.62. Since ammo capacity isn't a particular weighty concern on safari, why use a marginal killer?

And with regard to solids, a .30 0r .338 or .375 hole through a small animal is hardly more destructive than a .223 hole, and yet offers far more certainty of a clean kill. Finally, intending and actually using multiple calibers in Africa is tricky. I have twice stepped out intending to shoot springbok only to find myself lining up on Oryx. Murphy will insure that you have the wrong caliber in hand when the time comes.

 

[H AUSTIN]

I will use my 223 for animals up to Blesbuck size, bigger than that, my 9.3x62. but yes there are better options available.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

No there is not !!!
250 yrd behind the ear , really !!!!!!!
Learn how to shoot brother .

Believe it or not, some of us here have as much rifle time as do you, and aren't sold on .22 cal for big game. I suspect several in the audience can shoot as well as you. For twenty-nine years, the .223 was my working caliber. Will it kill - of course. Were I culling my ranch - sure why not. If on the other hand, I am a paying client, then I want to do everything in my power to make sure I am not paying for merely a drop of blood. The .223 is a pretty marginal man killer. It wounds effectively, which is often as good or even better than a kill, but it is inferior in combat to the .308. It's one advantage is round carrying capacity - the average soldier can carry 50 - 100% more 5.56 than he can 7.62. Since ammo capacity isn't a particular weighty concern on safari, why use a marginal killer?

And with regard to solids, a .30 0r .338 or .375 hole through a small animal is hardly more destructive than a .223 hole, and yet offers far more certainty of a clean kill. Finally, intending and actually using multiple calibers in Africa is tricky. I have twice stepped out intending to shoot springbok only to find myself lining up on Oryx. Murphy will insure that you have the wrong caliber in hand when the time comes.

Geez guys.....I didn't mean for this to turn into a pissing contest!

I realize that there are "bigger", and probably "better" cartridges out there......and I also realize that there are limitations to the cartridge, so I don't plan on shooting a gemsbok or kudu with a .223, even though it might be legal (for me, it would be unethical, even with a head shot). I also realize that a solid will take the smaller animal cleanly with minimal damage, but I see two problems with that 1.) there aren't a whole lot of options for most calibers with FMJ......I can get them in 375 and in 150 grain .30 cal, but I prefer a 180 grain or heavier for larger game (since that seems to be the argument.....carry soft points for the bigger game and full patch solids for the smaller stuff). Trying to find a load that shoots to the same point of aim...at ALL distances....with two different bullet weights is probably next to impossible!!! Remember: smaller target=smaller kill zone; I would hate myself if I just took off a leg or something off a duiker because the shot was just a tad off. As for my .375, well.....I just don't "enjoy" shooting that rifle!! It kicks the shit out of me and it HURTS!!! So to use it on everything...........well, I just don't want to. I bought it in case I ever get the chance to hunt cape buffalo or water buffalo; once I've accomplished that dream, the rifle will most likely go on the block.

.....and my thought was to do this after I've taken most of the larger species I would like to hunt......so I'm not too concerned about having a large anything in front of me, because it would probably be safe....even if it was something the P.H. was drooling over. The next guy can have a crack at it, if it's more important to him.........

I was considering selling my AR and putting some of the funds towards a good bolt action .223 for varminting. Now that the flurry of antigun excrement from the administration is over (for the time being), there is a TON of used ARs on the market selling for bargain basement prices......since I won't get my money out of my AR, I've decided to keep it and continue hunting with it (it's an Hbar model, with heavy target barrel). Also, for the record, I'm not shooting at men.....I'm hunting game. I think that there is a big difference, and if I was put in the position of having to shoot at a human being, then I much rather be armed with my M1A1 in 7.62x51.

But, since I can take neither to S.A., the point is moot!

Thanks to all for your replies....................

 

[dory]

Geez guys.....I didn't mean for this to turn into a pissing contest!

I realize that there are "bigger", and probably "better" cartridges out there......and I also realize that there are limitations to the cartridge, so I don't plan on shooting a gemsbok or kudu with a .223, even though it might be legal (for me, it would be unethical, even with a head shot). I also realize that a solid will take the smaller animal cleanly with minimal damage, but I see two problems with that 1.) there aren't a whole lot of options for most calibers with FMJ......I can get them in 375 and in 150 grain .30 cal, but I prefer a 180 grain or heavier for larger game (since that seems to be the argument.....carry soft points for the bigger game and full patch solids for the smaller stuff). Trying to find a load that shoots to the same point of aim...at ALL distances....with two different bullet weights is probably next to impossible!!! Remember: smaller target=smaller kill zone; I would hate myself if I just took off a leg or something off a duiker because the shot was just a tad off. As for my .375, well.....I just don't "enjoy" shooting that rifle!! It kicks the shit out of me and it HURTS!!! So to use it on everything...........well, I just don't want to. I bought it in case I ever get the chance to hunt cape buffalo or water buffalo; once I've accomplished that dream, the rifle will most likely go on the block.

.....and my thought was to do this after I've taken most of the larger species I would like to hunt......so I'm not too concerned about having a large anything in front of me, because it would probably be safe....even if it was something the P.H. was drooling over. The next guy can have a crack at it, if it's more important to him.........

I was considering selling my AR and putting some of the funds towards a good bolt action .223 for varminting. Now that the flurry of antigun excrement from the administration is over (for the time being), there is a TON of used ARs on the market selling for bargain basement prices......since I won't get my money out of my AR, I've decided to keep it and continue hunting with it (it's an Hbar model, with heavy target barrel). Also, for the record, I'm not shooting at men.....I'm hunting game. I think that there is a big difference, and if I was put in the position of having to shoot at a human being, then I much rather be armed with my M1A1 in 7.62x51.

But, since I can take neither to S.A., the point is moot!

Thanks to all for your replies....................

Its funny how pasionate people get about small calibres . You either love them or hate them .I actually use a 243 now as ammo is easy to get . The 223 argument has been going on for years here in NZ . Its a bit like cars really , which truck is best . No one wins but its a bloody good discusion over a few beers around a camp fire .

 

[TokkieM]

I have a soft spot for the 22's,maybe because I have taken my fair share of game with them and maybe because I have seen a young man putting himself through university shooting a .222 Rem and around 400 head of game a year with it. Not many were head shots,but all of them had the bullet in the right place and we picked up most of them pretty close to were they took the bullet.

Bullet choice is always a issue,no matter what caliber you use. Taking risky shots with larger calibers will get you into trouble sometimes too.

 

[dory]

I have a soft spot for the 22's,maybe because I have taken my fair share of game with them and maybe because I have seen a young man putting himself through university shooting a .222 Rem and around 400 head of game a year with it. Not many were head shots,but all of them had the bullet in the right place and we picked up most of them pretty close to were they took the bullet.

Bullet choice is always a issue,no matter what caliber you use. Taking risky shots with larger calibers will get you into trouble sometimes too.

I like Brickburns say that 100 grains in the right place is better than 1000 grains in the wrong place !!!

 

[matt85]

Wasn't the 223 designed to kill people? Isn't it the parent cartridge of NATO ammunition?

yep, the original 223 was designed to get around 1-2 inches of penetration then explode causing a devastating wound inside a mans body. keep in mind humans aren't as thick as our 4 legged prey and penetration isn't as important when killing humans.

now with a proper heavy SP bullet id happily use the 223 on critters up to around 150-200 pounds but id want a 70+ grain bonded SP bullet.

-matt

 

[Red Leg]

The "exploding" or tumbling 5.56 is pretty much a myth - at least in a military round. Not sure how that got started in Vietnam, but have always suspected it was perpetuated to try and convince an experienced infantryman that he had not traded in his M-14 for a toy. The combat bullet is full patch and tends to drill neat little .22 cal bullet holes through man or beast. Exceptions are hits through body armor which often do tumble - if they penetrate. In both Mogadishu and Afghanistan, multiple torso hits were needed to assure quick take down. One reason SOCOM has pretty much reverted to the .308 in one guize or another. Now should you shoot a human target with a varmint round, the effects would indeed be as you describe. My point being, that a jack rabbit tends to be a "tougher" target than a human. I would not use a .22 on anything in the 100 - 200 lb range.

A .223 or .222 or a hornet is a great rifle to bounce around in a truck at night with a spotlight (where legal) to pot jackal and other little things. And though I have taken a number of gemsbok and kudu, I am always hunting another in the right terrain. Hence my comment about taking off after springbok with a pea-shooter and stumbling upon something larger.

But 16 bore, if you want to take one and restrict yourself to small targets - have at it. You asked for an opinion.

 

[Red Leg]

I like Brickburns say that 100 grains in the right place is better than 1000 grains in the wrong place !!!

Yes but 300 grains in the right place is even better!

 

[dory]

Yes but 300 grains in the right place is even better!

So true .

 

[JimP]

A .22 caliber bullet will start to tumble once it hits a surface, I have seen it while doing penetration test on both wet, and dry phone books. A full metal jacket bullet will not explode and neither will a cup and core bullet. Now if that cup and core bullet should hit a heavy bone then it may just explode.

Also what a lot need to understand about the caliber is that once you go above 60 grains you need to start to look at a custom rifle with a twist rate of 1:7 or 1:9 to stabilize the heaver bullets. A lot of the .223 caliber rifles are 1:12 which is fine for factory 50-55 grain loads.

 

[TokkieM]

Yes but 300 grains in the right place is even better!

Can't kill anything deader than dead no matter how big a bullet you put in it...

 

[matt85]

The "exploding" or tumbling 5.56 is pretty much a myth - at least in a military round.

"explode" may have been a bad term, perhaps "fragment" is better. but i have seen first hand that this does happen with certain FMJ ammunition at high velocity.

here is a video showing the bullet fragmenting in slow motion:

-matt

 

[JimP]

It actually looks to me like the bullet stayed in one piece and came out of the gelatin block sideways. What you see at the bottom isn't parts of the bullet but pieces of what ever material that the block is sitting on.

 

[matt85]

look carefully through 0:13 the above the bullet you can see various fragments traveling up. there are numerous studies on this topic. if i remember i will post one of the studies later.

-matt

 

[JimP]

It is hard to tell if that is part of the bullet or something like a air pocket or even a harder piece of the gelatin. The bullet looks intact as it exits, you would have to be there to tell for sure. I can't imagine a full metal jacketed bullet that will penetrate 1/10 of a inch of steel at 600 yards such as M855 ammo coming apart in something that is as soft as the gelatin.