1903 Mannlicher Help

[Aaron N]

Took a while to type it, I'm a tad long winded!

Informative long winded-ness is always appreciated. A cocking piece peep sight would be a sexy addition!

 

[93marlin]

It would be a crime to drill and tap this wonderful classic rifle!!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Personally, I can’t shoot irons, mainly because I’ve never had all that much practice (kids nowadays, huh).

Also a rifle is a tool, it can be a work of art, but none the less function comes before form. For a rifle to achieve its highest function for me, it requires a scope. This isn’t a 20k rigby I’d be flushing down the drain, but a 2k rifle. I can take the hit on losing collectors value if I get the pleasure of hunting with it.

If you purchase it, it will be yours.

I would advocate for showing the utmost respect, however, for such a fine and unaltered MS.
Once permanently altered it can, of course, never be original again.

If you must have a 'scope, please consider a proper 'German claw mount' and have it done only by an expert with vast experience.

The claw mount is a thing of beauty, versatility, and (along with now extinct 'Vienna Snappers', you'll know you've shown proper regard and respect to one of the finest rifles ever produced, regardless of cost. A claw mounted 'scope removes with one hand in an instant and always returns to precise zero.

I'll double down on advice here to try out a 'scoped MS first and see if the 'scope placement works for you or if you can retrain yourself to like sighting with chin on cheek rest.

I don't mind it a bit and, with my period claw mounts, always have the option of sighting with 'scope and then settling down to cheek rest and shooting under the 'scope through the iron sight.

Also, try to become accustomed to shooting her 'through the iron'. The MS (particularly the stutzen) is designed with perfect balance, dimensions, and cast of stock for 'snap shooting'.
Put the rifle (unloaded) on a table, imagine you hear a charging leopard behind you, grab the rifle and bring it to your cheek while sighting down the barrel... you'll be right on target!

Another option would be to purchase one of the later models which were designed for 'scope use, had a 'flat' machined on the side of receiver for easy 'scope mounting, and had a 'guide ring' in the Schoenauer magazine which allowed for greater versatility of cartridge and bullet profile:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Informative long winded-ness is always appreciated. A cocking piece peep sight would be a sexy addition!

Yes, indeed.
Mine has the (original) option of 'special folding peep sight', but I'd still love to have a Parker Hale Sportarget or even a Lyman 1A, either of which would be a non permanent alteration (buy a spare cocking piece nut and dovetail it for sight, keep the original.

'Special folding peep sight'.

 

[Matthias5662]

Aperture or "peep" sights are very cool on old MS rifles. Note the rear sight folds down to allow the peep sight (a Lyman model 36MS) to work with the front sight (i.e. you don't have to grind down the rear standing leaf as some do). This Lyman sight swings out of the way for the bolt. It attaches to the bolt release. You can find Lyman 1A and Lyman 36MS sights every once in a great while on Ebay etc. The same goes for the rear fold-down sight.

 

[Aaron N]

Well now I’m looking at McLaughlin peeps. Pretty little additions…

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Here is the 'flat' provided on MS rifles / stutzen from the mid 1950s onward:

The pre WW2 mounting of 'Vienna Snappers' was done at guild shops and differed widely in detail. Claw mounts were generally aftermarket propositions, also hand fitted.

Steyr did offer consistent 'in house' fitting of 'swing away' scope mounts from the mid 1950s onward:

Here's an aftermarket Leupold:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Well now I’m looking at McLaughlin peeps. Pretty little additions…

Are these still available?

I just found this in my images, from 2016:

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Well now I’m looking at McLaughlin peeps. Pretty little additions…

By the way, the MS pictured there seems to be an M1952 (if it has the straight stock comb).

Stoeger, 1954

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Brian Rothhammer is a true treasure trove of knowledge on these magnificent pieces of Austrian art. And his logic makes a lot of sense when he says that Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles are EXTREMELY picky in regards to cartridge length and bullet profile in order to ensure reliable feeding.

I’ve handled and fired one Mannlicher Schoenauer in .458 Winchester Magnum which fed & cycled like butter when used with original Hornady 500Gr ROUND NOSED steel jacketed FMJ solids. The very same rifle would experience a plethora of feeding problems when used with modern FLAT NOSED bullets.

I also strongly encourage @Aaron N to buy this rifle. 160Gr Hornady Interlock bullets loaded by Superior Ammo would make for an excellent plains game rifle for anything short of eland or kudu (although this caliber has also been used to successfully account for several heads of these 2 game species over the years).

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

@Brian Rothhammer is a true treasure trove of knowledge on these magnificent pieces of Austrian art. And his logic makes a lot of sense when he says that Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles are EXTREMELY picky in regards to cartridge length and bullet profile in order to ensure reliable feeding.

I’ve handled and fired one Mannlicher Schoenauer in .458 Winchester Magnum which fed & cycled like butter when used with original Hornady 500Gr ROUND NOSED steel jacketed FMJ solids. The very same rifle would experience a plethora of feeding problems when used with modern flat nosed bullets.

I also strongly encourage @Aaron N to buy this rifle. 160Gr Hornady Interlock bullets loaded by Superior Ammo would make for an excellent plains game rifle for anything short of eland or kudu (although this caliber has also been used to successfully account for several heads of these 2 game species over the years).

Thank you, sir, for the kind words.

Here are inner workings of Herr Schoenauer's wonderful rotary Magazine:

Pre M1924, post M1924 (retaining ring added)

M1903, M1910, M1924, 'M1925', M1952

 

[HWL]

It would be a crime to drill and tap this wonderful classic rifle!!

Nothing more to say.....

HWL

 

[John Telford]

Don’t think I can add much other than to say that everyone should have owned a 6.5 MS at some point in their shooting lives! This one looks in great nick and it’s very easy to load for. Don’t hesitate!

 

[HWL]

Don’t think I can add much other than to say that everyone should have owned a 6.5 MS at some point in their shooting lives! This one looks in great nick and it’s very easy to load for. Don’t hesitate!

And hunting is possible without a scope.....

HWL

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

By - the - bye, here is another reason not to 'hard mount' a 'scope to a MS; you'll lose access to the stripper clip function:

With a 'German claw mount' or 'Vienna snapper' the 'scope is easily removed to permit loading by 'stripper', also possible with 'swing away' or other quick release types.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I have two 1903s and a 1910. All pre-war. One actually stamped "Made in Germany", proofed in 1939.

On the ammo: Match the specs, and you are fine. Play around, and maybe not. on the 1903, Hornady is no longer making their 160g, but you may find some NOS. Woodleigh was making 160g, and I'm hoping they will again. I've successfully made the 160g "Projected Point" feed, but had other issues, that I now know are related to bumping the shoulder too far back. 140g were also available as a spitzer bullet, and those fed well, but I haven't had much chance to play with them. In a stutzen, the 140 grain is actually a slightly better choice at 100m and beyond, as it loses less speed and retains energy better than the 160g.

There are other bullets in the 140 to 160 range that I really want to play with, but haven't yet had the opportunity. Long for caliber is good.

For scoping, let us lose this "drill and tap" nonsense. The proper EAW mounts (new) should be soldered on, not drilled. Do NOT drill the receiver, nor should you dovetail the receiver. Side mounts are still available from Griffin and Howe, but will not work well with a pre-war model, as the stock is much more thin, and there is not room.

Lee LeBas at http://learmsllc.com/ was able to successfully re-install a Viennese mount that was dovetailed into the receiver on mine. Worked a treat. Not only is a properly mounted scope removable, and while the scope is mounted slightly high, done correctly, you can still see the iron sights beneath the scope, allowing you to use either.

 

[Hunter4752001]

John McLaughlin's website is https://www.mclaughlinmetalworks.com/ . Drop him an email to see if he still makes a cocking piece peep sight to suit the 1903.

 

[Major Bonkers]

When you (Aaron N) write This isn’t a 20k rigby I’d be flushing down the drain, but a 2k rifle [by attaching a 'scope], you slightly miss the point: the Mannlicher-Schönauer is a finer sporting rifle than a Rigby/ Mauser. The difference in price is irrelevant. (You also overlook the depreciation on a new Rigby.)

We owe the ubiquity of the Mauser action to John Rigby persuading Paul Mauser to manufacture magnum-length actions (for his exclusive use): it is a great pity that neither the M-S nor the Lee Enfield actions were ever so 'magnum-ised'.

 

[Dirtdart]

Hornady currently list the .264 160 grain RN #2640 in their line up. That bullet was discontinued several years ago but I have seen new stock recently at several retailers. Limited production for sure but nice to see some available.

Norma Oryx .264 156 grain is currently available.

It is a shame that Sierra has not resurrected their .264 160 grain Pro-Hunter #1750.

I have faith that we will see the Woodleigh .264 160 grain Weldcore W80A available one of these days.

Lapua Mega .264 155 grain is currently available and thus far it has been the winner in the accuracy department in over the others listed although minimal in a couple of instances.

All of the projectiles listed maintain full case neck tension with a seating depth that gives flawless feeding in my 6.5MS.
Your mileage may vary.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

it is a great pity that neither the M-S nor the Lee Enfield actions were ever so 'magnum-ised'.

Though the largest cartridge chambered for Mannlicher Schoenauers in the pre WW2 period was 10.75 X 68 (M1924 and 'M1925' actions were longer than M1900 through M1910) there were, indeed, Magnum action MS introduced in the late 1950s.

'Prewar' MS, M1924 / M1925, marketed by Stoeger as 'High Velocity'

Stoeger, 1958

Stoeger, 1958

Stoeger, 1961