New SxS Questions and Recommendations

[frog stealer]

Hello all, it seems that many of you are very knowledgeable when it comes to shotguns, specifically of the the double barrel type, so I figured I would start here with some questions.

There are two reasons I’m looking to purchase a nice shotgun, the first being that I am getting into sporting clays at my local range quite a bit (currently with a pump shotgun!), and the second is that I am expecting delivery of my first double rifle (Heym 89) within the next few months, and I’d like to develop some muscle memory and gain more experience with double triggers.

Here are some specific questions I have regarding this topic:

-What is a good quality SxS these days? Trying to stay under $3k, but please tell me if I am crazy, and will not find a good double below this price. I’ve read some good reviews of some within my price range (FAIR Iside, Dickinson), and some above (Rizzini, AyA, Beretta).

-Would double triggers be necessary to develop muscle memory for other guns (double rifle), or are they so different that it wouldn’t matter anyway? Thinking most shotguns are straight grip, and most rifles have pistol grips…

-I wouldn’t be opposed to O/U’s as well, they seem to be stronger, and more capable of firing heavy duck loads (I mostly duck hunt, more so than upland), but being that most of them have single triggers, am I better off going with a SxS with double triggers?

Thanks in advance for any help offered!

 

[Berettaco]

I would look at a nice used sxs - you will be able to find some amazing shotguns under $3k.
I’d suggest the classic configuration of straight stock and double triggers.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I am expecting delivery of my first double rifle (Heym 89) within the next few months, and I’d like to develop some muscle memory and gain more experience with double triggers.

Based on the arrival of your Heym, look for an East German Merkel Model 8 SxS shotgun. They are more like a Heym 88B but should be close to what your 89 will be. Additionally, these are not expensive for a quality SxS shotgun.

Other SxS's may be closer to the form, fit, and feel of your Heym 89.

 

[frog stealer]

Based on the arrival of your Heym, look for an East German Merkel Model 8 SxS shotgun. They are more like a Heym 88B but should be close to what your 89 will be. Additionally, these are not expensive for a quality SxS shotgun.

Other SxS's may be closer to the form, fit, and feel of your Heym 89.

Thanks for the suggestion Mark, I’ll check them out!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Also, I once had over 50 SxS shotguns including AH Fox, Parker Brothers, LC Cmith, Lefever, Henry Atkin, a few other 2nd tier British makers, and Merkel. Now I am down to less than a dozen including my Merkel 47E. It's a nicer version of their Model 8. The 47E is pretty graceful for the strength of its build. The 47E is a smaller frame size than my Heym 88B in .458 Win, but there is a familiar feel to the two guns.

 

[Red Leg]

Based on the arrival of your Heym, look for an East German Merkel Model 8 SxS shotgun. They are more like a Heym 88B but should be close to what your 89 will be. Additionally, these are not expensive for a quality SxS shotgun.

Other SxS's may be closer to the form, fit, and feel of your Heym 89.

One thing to watch is that most German guns of that period, regardless of political affiliation, are tightly choked. That should not be a deal killer, but it can lead to a lot of frustration on the clays range. Many competent gunsmiths can open to a more useful choke if you see the gun you like but it is choked full and fuller. Moreover, on one of the Heyms of that period you want be destroying any collector value. If you find you really like the gun, you can send it to Briley to be fitted with choke tubes.

 

[crs]

Mark A,
What did you do with your Parkers?

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Not a problems since most Model 8 have no collector value. They have a value in performance and reliability. That stated, its not hard to use a hand reamer to open constrictions to Improved Cylinder and Improved Modified.

I don't know anything about Heym shotguns...

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

What did you do with your Parkers?

I sold them to their new caretakers...

 

[Rubberhead]

If you are taking clays, I'd tell you 100% to get a O/U with a pistol grip and single triggers.

But, if you're really wanting to develop the muscle memory to better, more comfortably, and more reliably handle your double rifle, I'd say get a cheap SxS 20 gauge with a pistol grip and double triggers then ask your sporting clays course if you can camp out on the rabbit station for 30 minutes every weekend.

I'm starting to think you need a $2,400 O/U and a $600 SxS.

 

[Red Leg]

Not a problems since most Model 8 have no collector value. They have a value in performance and reliability. That stated, its not hard to use a hand reamer to open constrictions to Improved Cylinder and Improved Modified.

I don't know anything about Heym shotguns...

LOL. Meant Merkel. I am afraid that I don't know a lot about Heym shotguns either. A colleague does have a beautiful pre-war side-plated 16 bore.

 

[frog stealer]

Thanks for the replies! Definitely some food for thought here...

 

[Tanks]

A used Aya or a Grulla (if you find a great deal) would be what I'd recommend. Mine have definitely helped me acclimate.

 

[MRBlack]

While I don’t do hardly any skeet, sporting clays, or trap shooting, I do a fair amount of upland hunting. I too wanted a SxS with double triggers to develop muscle memory for a double rifle. I ended up finding a lovely little English 12 bore from the early 20s. It’s a “no name” Charles Smith. I got a good deal on it (less than $1500) since it has 2 1/2” chambers. I don’t shoot 100 rounds a weekend so a case lasts quite a while. It probably isn’t exactly what you’re looking for, you may watch around for an older used English double that will last a lifetime plus.

 

[frog stealer]

A used Aya or a Grulla (if you find a great deal) would be what I'd recommend. Mine have definitely helped me acclimate.

Thank you sir, I've looked into both of those brands, they make some amazing stuff. On the used market, they seem to range in price all over the place, from $350 for a 1970's boxlock, to over $3k for a used No. 2. I'll keep my eyes open for some good deals.

Heck, AyA even makes double rifles. In case anyone is wondering, they start at $15k for monoblocks, and $20k for chopper lump, both in sidelock only.

 

[frog stealer]

While I don’t do hardly any skeet, sporting clays, or trap shooting, I do a fair amount of upland hunting. I too wanted a SxS with double triggers to develop muscle memory for a double rifle. I ended up finding a lovely little English 12 bore from the early 20s. It’s a “no name” Charles Smith. I got a good deal on it (less than $1500) since it has 2 1/2” chambers. I don’t shoot 100 rounds a weekend so a case lasts quite a while. It probably isn’t exactly what you’re looking for, you may watch around for an older used English double that will last a lifetime plus

For the last 25 years, I probably have shot 3 shotshells per year, two for turkey (spring and fall), and one slug for deer. I owned an H&H Paradox for a short time, had lots of fun with it, but ended selling it to drum up funds for another purchase. I definitely wish I was more proficient in the used english gun market, I know enough about used shotguns to be dangerous. Thanks for the post!

 

[RLL]

If you look around, a used model 700 WC Scott built from 1950ish-1978 is an affordable SxS anson-deely box lock. Solid working mans gun, 2 3/4” chambers and proofed to 1 1/4 oz loads. IMO, the last of the affordable, hand fitted, British guns from Birmingham before H&H bought out the factory.

 

[BeeMaa]

@frog stealer - Why not order a second set of barrels in 20 bore for your Heym?

Wouldn't that be quite the head turner on the clay grounds.

 

[frog stealer]

@frog stealer - Why not order a second set of barrels in 20 bore for your Heym?

Wouldn't that be quite the head turner on the clay grounds.

That is a great idea! The only problem is cost…$6k to $7k would buy you a very nice standalone shotgun! That being said, I may night the bullet anyway and add a set to my next double rifle order.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Frog Stealer,

Find a club where SxS collectors call home. Chances are the guys there will let you shoot their guns. Take your Heym there and let them handle it. Pretty soon you will have an answer to which SxS shotgun handles most like your Heym.

Or, you could find a cheap Spanish 10 gauge that weighs 9 or more pounds and handles like a two by four. Shoulder, load live or dummy rounds, dry fire or live fire, and reload that to your heart's content until it feels good. Then, your Heym will feel like magic in your arms!