Double Rifles vs Bolt Actions - Speed tests

[DWB]

Hi Guys,

I am at the risk of being ridiculed for creating this thread, but I am inquisitive...

I have searched a bit, but have not found any comparative info.

Is there any documented info where the number of shots and the time to shoot them in has been compared? (Videos, notes etc)

I know there are many factors to consider, but I like to mess around with the maths on these type of things.

I consider myself to be reasonably fast with my bolt rifle, probably faster than the average hunter.

As always, speed is good but accuracy is final.

If you are willing to post any info, or even your own experience it will be appreciated.

Can a bolt gun be faster than a double in certain scenarios? Eg Shot 3 and maybe even 4?

What's your experience?

 

[Red Leg]

To the primary question - nope don’t have a video. However, I own and have shot both a lot. I love the R8 - it is my primary hunting rifle currently. I think it is significantly faster than any normal bolt action. That said, I am confident I can get two INSTINCTIVE shots off a tad quicker with either a single or double trigger double than the R8.

As a person who loves rifles, I would normally agree that “accuracy” is final - EXCEPT when using a rifle where a truly fast second shot is needed - say, something large hairy and angry - inbound. At thirty-feet MOA is rather beside the point. Those shots likely will also have a bit of instinctive pointing involved. I believe that I would be a nanosecond quicker with a double in that situation for two shots and the R8 for three or four.

There are videos that show a double beating a standard bolt action to the fourth shot. Someone will likely post one.

For an aimed second shot at an escaping animal, I think it is a wash with just a nod to the R8 - a situation where accuracy is also very important.

 

[DWB]

Hahahaha I was expecting the Blasers to creep in here! Thank you sir!

And it makes total sense.

I will put myself on the hook, I tested a friend's 450 Rigby yesterday and got off 3 shots in 4.3 seconds with 550gr factory ammo.

Timers starting just before the first shot barks.

Any idea where you will place with your R8?

 

[CAustin]

Hahahaha I was expecting the Blasers to creep in here! Thank you sir!

And it makes total sense.

I will put myself on the hook, I tested a friend's 450 Rigby yesterday and got off 3 shots in 4.3 seconds with 550gr factory ammo.

Timers starting just before the first shot barks.

Any idea where you will place with your R8?

That was darn fast sir!

 

[Red Leg]

Hahahaha I was expecting the Blasers to creep in here! Thank you sir!

And it makes total sense.

I will put myself on the hook, I tested a friend's 450 Rigby yesterday and got off 3 shots in 4.3 seconds with 550gr factory ammo.

Timers starting just before the first shot barks.

Any idea where you will place with your R8?

Nope. Pretty sure you will never actually catch me playing with a timer. But it is very fast. Nor can I offer meaningful opinions about anyone else.

But I reiterate, on a close inbound target, I am slightly faster with two shots with a double than my R8 and the R8 is faster by a wider margin than a standard bolt action in the same scenario. For an aimed second shot at an outbound animal, the R8 is as fast as the double, and faster than a standard bolt. In that scenario, the R8 is obviously not limited to two shots. Those are purely my experiences.

 

[DWB]

Thank you. Being quite active in our big bore association's shoots, we are used to timers being employed. And you can actually overlay a timer on a video in some apps.

I shoot 404 Jeffery, which has a lesser power factor than for example a 500NE. So if I want to score better, I have to get more hits in a short as possible amount of time. All part of the fun.

But without actual times taken, it is not as easy to come forth with some form of stats.

But that the straight pull actions are fast I cannot argue

 

[Forrest Halley]

Is there a parameter for accuracy here? Say flat center of a paper plate at thirty feet or 25 yards? Otherwise aren't you just like the kids at the range spraying away?

 

[DWB]

Sure there should be a factor of accuracy involved. I put my 3 shots into an A5 sheet at 50m. I do normally shoot with an Aimpoint, but this was not my rifle and was open sighted.

But as I say, this is just for my own inquisitive mind and as a matter of benchmarking

 

[Von S.]

Hahahaha

Get a gun with a "body shot" stopping round........ take one shot.......go get a picture taken....... go get a beer and listen to others tell stories how they shot something 6 times and how it never fell over and ran away.......chuckle as they say how fast shooting their underpowered rifle is.

 

[IvW]

The double in competent hands is only marginally faster on the second shot after that it is out of the picture for the break action versus a magazine rifle.

When Mauritz was still alive we did a test with some competent shooters, using the timers. Myself with the 500 Jeff, another with a 416 Rigby and two others with Krieghoff doubles. The doubles only barely beat us to the second shot after that it was no contest.

The closest I came to equaling the double was .2 of a second slower on the second shot. Mauritz had these records but I never saw anything published and sadly it may have left with him.

 

[DWB]

Thanks Ivor.

This is more getting to the point I had in mind.

BASA has some exceptional double rifle shooters, but the competent bolt guys should not be misjudged.

All in the name of fun. Would have been great to see the results

For what it is worth, I uploaded the video to YouTube:

That was using 550gr Norma Africa PH ammo.

Rifle is built on a BRNO ZKK602 action that is slick as can be...

 

[Jfet]

As always, speed is good but accuracy is final.

Make the first shot count. Kill the animal FAST.

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is Fast."

 

[Forrest Halley]

A man walking around with 20 rounds of .223 is concerned with running out of ammunition. A man walking around with 20 rounds of .375 is concerned with very little.

 

[DWB]

Make the first shot count. Kill the animal FAST.

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is Fast."

Absolutely, however, I don't think the value of being able to place a fast and proper follow up shot should be underestimated. Probably more so on DG, but a handy ability to have up one's sleeve should it be necessary

 

[DWB]

Managed to get a video from a friend of mine that I could time.

3 shots in 3.3 seconds with a Blaser in 416 Rem.

That's fast!

 

[Scrumbag]

My club has a "big bore" section which shoots an event called the special snap.

35 yds, 35 seconds, 8 shots.

2 classes are shot - basically .338 to 375H&H and .40 Cal and up (There's bullet weights and energy limits but that's the crux of it)

Myself and another shooter I know can get 8 off in good time - he shoots a Tikka 695 rebarreled to 35 Whelen with a detachable mag, I can do it in good time with my 9.3x62 but I start with 5+1 in the gun.

The guys shooting 4+1 or 3 +1 tend to struggle.

My 404 Jeffery is right now a 2+1 (Getting that fixed) and I've got 7 off in the 35 seconds.

The double guys seem to struggle to to do more than 6 but some can.

Scrummy

 

[DWB]

Thank you! Quite interesting!

We once had to get off 4 shots, starting with an empty rifle on a buffalo target at 15m into a 3.5" circle in 19 seconds.

There were if I remember correctly only 3 of us bolt guns, 1 single shot and 2 or so doubles that that got it right in the stipulated time.

 

[Scrumbag]

Thank you! Quite interesting!

We once had to get off 4 shots, starting with an empty rifle on a buffalo target at 15m into a 3.5" circle in 19 seconds.

There were if I remember correctly only 3 of us bolt guns, 1 single shot and 2 or so doubles that that got it right in the stipulated time.

DWB, this is the BSRC (British Sporting Rifle Club). Guessing BASA is the guys we sometimes shoot against?

Scrummy

 

[DWB]

BASA is the Big Bore Association of South Africa

It is possible that you might have shot against them in the International Big Bore Shoot (DGS)

 

[Jfet]

There were if I remember correctly only 3 of us bolt guns, 1 single shot and 2 or so doubles that that got it right in the stipulated time.

It was not the rifles that got it right. It was the nut behind the gun that got it right. The ballistics and gun gurus on this forum have taught me a great deal about the physics of firearms and ammunition. However, it really comes down to how the human handles the firearm. Both doubles and bolt rifles are fast enough and accurate enough if the person can aim, fire, and reload while under pressure. That takes practice. These competitions you are talking about intrigue me. I would be even more interested in your technique of firing and reloading. Yes, my degree is in kinesiology. Human movement fascinates me.

This is an interesting Hickok45 video that I think applies to this discussion.