450/400 or 470 Nitro express

[Philip Glass]

Hello Everyone,
First thank you all for all the great information that is being offered here. I have learned a lot and continue to learn more every time I visit this forum. I do have some experience in using a 12 bore paradox (my grandpas) some English make but pretty darn powerful. He used to hunt Royal Bengal tigers back in the day in India with it.

Of late i have been fascinated to own a double. I wish to go to Africa in the next couple of years and as such in a quest for a good double. My sights are on a Heym 470 but of late I see lot of good reviews/feedback from experienced hunters on the 450/400 cartidge. I'm a novice at best so to say on calibers and difficult to understand all the nuances. I also plan to use the rifle for some fun trips in the US. Please help me decide.

Your final thought would direct you to the 450/400 but if after DG in Africa the .470 may be a better choice. The .470 is lots of recoil to handle and you should shoot some doubles before buying. Like you mentioned the 450/400 is getting lots of press lately.
Philip

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Your final thought would direct you to the 450/400 but if after DG in Africa the .470 may be a better choice. The .470 is lots of recoil to handle and you should shoot some doubles before buying. Like you mentioned the 450/400 is getting lots of press lately.
Philip

My first double was a George Gibbs .450/400 3 1/4. I loved that rifle scary accurate and I never noticed recoil, unfortunately I had to sell it to buy a identical except for weight George Gibbs in .470, again very accurate, but you do notice the recoil, but it works. My wife shoots a Heym 88B .450/400 and finds the recoil very manageable. Now to throw something else into the mix we had a client this year who was shooting a Vernay Carron .450/400 3" OVER AND UNDER!!! When he came out of his tent the first morning it was LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT! It was trim, slim extremely well balanced just a magnificent piece of work. Accurate his 80 meter heart shot on his grandfather of all bushbucks proved how accurate it is. Forget about the advantage of a side by side over a over and under I guarantee you, you can load this rifle as fast as any side by side (your not sitting in a duck blind). You probably would not need to reload as the first bullet is going to go where it was supposed to go! Unfortunately John M. left Zimbabwe with that rifle! Damn!

 

[Pondoro]

Perhaps we can sum it up and say that if elephant is not to be pursued, the 450/400 3" and 3 1/4 is plenty enough..?

 

[Johann Muller]

I own a 500 3" NE Heym. I use it for backup on Big 5 . It also took a while for me to decide . 500 is a lot of gun and I think in your case the 450/400 would be fine for anything on the planet. Remember its not the size of the gun but rather shot placement. 450/400 was Pondoro Taylor's favourite double. Practise with that double. Handling is totally different to bolts. I checked all manufacturers, opting for a new gun as I can't afford English doubles and finally decided on the Hey...
Enjoy

 

[4 Bore]

Why don't you compromise and choose the Caliber that's right between the .450/400 NE and the .470 NE : The .450 Nitro Express ? The only double rifle l own is a Vintage .450 Nitro Express Double Made by John Rigby . It is a beautiful weapon and l shoot Hornady Dangerous Game Solids for the Thick skinned beasts and Hornady Dangerous Game eXpanding bullets for the lighter game. Mine has brought down Cape Buffalo ( including a charging one ) , Deer sized game and even the smaller antelope with unrivalled knockdown power . Currently , the only makers l know who make rifles in .450 NE are Sabatti ( but l hear that their quality is not consistent ) , Anderson Wheeler ( But l don't know if they are taking new orders anymore ) and an American Gun Maker by the name of Mr. Butch Searcy. If you can get your hands on a .450 NE , go for it. The recoil is less than a.470 NE , but the stopping power is a little more than a .450/400.

If , however , you are adamant to choose between the two calibers that you have mentioned , then l would choose the .450/400 if you want less recoil and were simply going to shoot the occasional elephant or cape buffalo . If you would be shooting lots of thick skinned game , l would recommend the .470 NE. Most Professional Humters in Africa who use Double rifles , opt for the .470 NE.
Hope this helps

 

[cal pappas]

How about a vintage double rather than a new one? For the same money you can have history and workmanship that is not equalled by anyone today.
Cal
PS. As a side bar, I have shot plenty of plains game and a moose with my .600 nitro from 1914. Come to the AK double shoot on May 4 and try them all--350 to 4-bore!

 

[WAB]

Great point. If I ever buy a double it will be a vintage double. A solid Birmingham boxlock in 450/400 or 470 with 26” tubes and some stories to tell!

 

[cal pappas]

WAB:
When you are ready for a double, email me as I ussually have one or two from my collection. I'm not a dealer, I just thin out my safe at times. I'm at <pappas@mtaonline.net> and don't advertise or put much on the internet. At present I have a few bpe doubles and one nor two nitro doubles for sale.
Cal

 

[WAB]

Will do Cal. I take it you are in the Anchorage area as your shooting at Birchwood. I’ve popped a lot of caps at that range.

 

[cal pappas]

WAB:
May 4 is the double shoot, please come by if you can and shoot 40-50+ doubles.
Cal

 

[Bullhunter]

Currently , the only makers l know who make rifles in .450 NE are Sabatti.
No, Heym make them also. (And al of the big english manufactures on Special orders also.)
Ivan Carters famous double is in this caliber too.

If you can get your hands on a .450 NE , go for it. The recoil is less than a.470 NE , but the stopping power is a little more than a .450/400.
I have and had doubles in all calibers.
So I can say: This statement is correct.
And: Hornady make this caliber also, so you get - maybe not the best, but "cheap" - amo.

Best wishes and an happy new year 2019 to all of you.
Probs to Cal and Lon, they are great guys and man-by-word.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Bullhunter VC currently makes a 450NE.

@Tokoloshe Safaris I also have a VC O/U 450/400 that I used for my Roan and the hippo on my avatar and my PH would have liked to see it stay in his camp too!

 

[mdwest]

A VC O/U in 450/400 3" just popped up on GB a couple of days ago.. Nice looking rifle (although Im not a fan of the appearance of the mount and red dot.. even though I admit they are both quality and probably work excellently...)..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792654309

 

[WAB]

WAB:
May 4 is the double shoot, please come by if you can and shoot 40-50+ doubles.
Cal

Would love to Cal but we don't live in AK anymore. Bill

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

@Bullhunter VC currently makes a 450NE.

@Tokoloshe Safaris I also have a VC O/U 450/400 that I used for my Roan and the hippo on my avatar and my PH would have liked to see it stay in his camp too!

Like? Hell I would have loved to see that VC .450-400 stay in camp! Still plotting!

 

[AZDAVE]

@Tokoloshe Safaris I do believe I see a plan forming VC makes a nice double whether it is SxS or O/U.

 

[Jeff 907]

I too would like to purchase a double. They've always facinated me, but the price is usually too much for my budget. I saw this one on Cabela's web site. I don't know anything about doubles other than H&H are more than most homes. I'm on the books for a buffalo next May in SA and would love to use a double and your advice in this post has been most helpful. Thanks.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/a-duval-arms-double-rifle-450-400-nitro-express/2403505.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&Ntk=GunLibrary&Ntt=double&x=0&y=0&Ntt=double

 

[mdwest]

There's a sabatti 450/400 on GB right now.. doesnt appear to be one of the cabelas guns that got boogered by a dremel.. price looks very good to me..

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/805220978

 

[Jeff 907]

I saw that one, but am concerned it was one. Was it just the Cabelas ones that were walled out?

 

[Dutch44]

I'd pass on the Cabela's listed 450-400 with "ok bores but some pitting noticed". There are better choices out there. Patience and knowledge are you most valuable tools in choosing.