The 470 Capstick Pt.2

[CZDiesel]

Some of you have read Pt. one where I showed the 470 Capstick rifle. Then I was given the sad news by @michael458 that multiple of these “Big Five” had over sized barrels and didn’t stabilize bullets on game well. So I thought once again my bad luck was following me lol But to my surprise after having it slugged it was indeed in spec at .474

I looked all over for any loaded factory ammunition for it and it’s non-existent! Like zero anywhere at any price!!!
So I picked up 100 pieces of Bertram Brass out of Australia, which its self is very rare, and was lucky enough that @ET1775 had a box of Barnes 500gr TSX he was giving a way on the “Pay it Forward” thread and I was able to get those. Thank you @ET1775!!!
I also picked up some Barnes Banded Solids. So with those and Federal Gold Medal Mag primers and H4895 to develop loads tailored to my M-70 development was started…

So to start I have to tell you the Bertram brass is just a 470 Capstick head stamped basic brass! That means there is a lot of prep to be done! Sizing, trimming, chamfering, and de-burring. So although Im very grateful the brass is out there it still needs a lot of work!

I’ll leave it here for now but be back in a couple days with the results. Until then a 470 Barnes TSX next to a 556 lol

 

[ldmay375]

Good to see that you have one that the barrel is in spec.

 

[Luvthunt]

Good luck with your project.

 

[Tradmark]

I have always hoped the 470 capstick would catch on better. Look forward to seeing your results

 

[krish]

Good luck with your load devolopment and the rifle. Keep us posted.
Krish

 

[Riflecrank]

Good choice on powder.
I used 85 grains of it with the 500-gr North Fork Cup Point (CPS).
Three bullets in one hole at 50 yards, where the 470 Capstick should be zeroed.
I got 2368 fps for 5-yard chrono from a 26" barrel, 1:10" twist.

Load data from A-Square manual is probably why my McGowen barrel was 26" long and 1:10" twist.
Same barrel length and twist as Art Alphin and gang used.
They got 2387 fps MV with that charge and the 500-gr A-Square Monolithic Solid.
About identical to what I got if my velocity is corrected to MV.
Pressure was 59,400 psi for their load and rifle.

Your Barnes Banded Solid and TSX are excellent for the 470 Capstick.
You might want to order some North Fork .474/500-grainers from Reloading International.
CPS, FPS and SS all same 500-gr weight, ideal for 470 NE DR too.

 

[Hmaxwell]

Could you link part 1 please? I have a 470 capstick in Winchester 70 form. I bought it probably 10 years ago and then stumbled on some ammo from the Jeffrey Lash gun and ammo unload. Still haven’t shot the gun but need to. Are you saying that they over-bored the barrels so the bullet isn’t tight to the rifling? Thanks for the information.

 

[CZDiesel]

Could you link part 1 please? I have a 470 capstick in Winchester 70 form. I bought it probably 10 years ago and then stumbled on some ammo from the Jeffrey Lash gun and ammo unload. Still haven’t shot the gun but need to. Are you saying that they over-bored the barrels so the bullet isn’t tight to the rifling? Thanks for the information.

Winchester only offered the 470 Capstick out of their Custom Shop. One of those offerings was in the “Big Five” series. It seems as there are some of those with over bore barrels that affect puller performance. My rifle is one of those “Big Five” rifles yet the barrel is in spec so I don’t think anyone can tell you if yours is in or out of spec without you having it slugged. Assuming it’s a “Big Five” rifle?
On the other hand if you just have a custom ordered rifle from the Custom Shop then I don’t know what to think? Winchester used target grade rifle cut custom barrels by other barrel makers but they don’t say who?
So if I were you I’d just get it slugged for piece of mind…

C

Thread 'One for Franz! The 470 Capstick!'

Apr 11, 2025

A couple days back my good friend and amateur troll @franzfmdavis questioned if I had a 470 Capstick in my collection… So I thought I’d share it with you all and to @franzfmdavis…
It’s #39 in the “Big Five” series. I originally didn’t think I would like the gold and silver inlay as it looks hoeky when see in pics but I have to say it looks really cool in hand!!!
So @franzfmdavis let me know when you want to toss some 600gr at 2250ftps out of a 9lb Winchester lol

• CZDiesel
• Replies: 33
• Forum: .375 & up

• 
• 

 

[michael458]

I also picked up some Barnes Banded Solids. So with those and Federal Gold Medal Mag primers and H4895 to develop loads tailored to my M-70 development was started…

I have another suggestion that might be of note to you in the future as well. When I did the 475 B&M and the 475 B&M Super Short, I worked with CEB and North Fork on suitable bullets in .474 caliber. The CEB Line is a 450 #13 Solid and 420 Raptor for the larger cartridge and for the Super Short I think it is a 350 #13 Solid and 320 Raptor. The North Forks were 425 Expanding CPS, 425 Solids, and 425 SS for the larger case, and 375 Expanding CPS and 375 Solids. This was just before the change in the Solid Design, so what I have is the old design. I assume that North Fork upgraded the Solids to the new design, but I am not sure. I did not request any. I do not care much for the larger 475 B&M. The Super Short is a good little cartridge. Since I don't support the larger 475 B&M I ceased all work with it. But the bullets are there, and they are super.

Would give you a few more options to work with if desired.........

All of these are very capable bullets. I shot several buffalo with the CEB and North Forks with the larger 475 B&M, my son used his Super Short on buffalo and even took elephant and hippo with the 350 #13 Solid and did not come up short anywhere.

 

[CZDiesel]

I have another suggestion that might be of note to you in the future as well. When I did the 475 B&M and the 475 B&M Super Short, I worked with CEB and North Fork on suitable bullets in .474 caliber. The CEB Line is a 450 #13 Solid and 420 Raptor for the larger cartridge and for the Super Short I think it is a 350 #13 Solid and 320 Raptor. The North Forks were 425 Expanding CPS, 425 Solids, and 425 SS for the larger case, and 375 Expanding CPS and 375 Solids. This was just before the change in the Solid Design, so what I have is the old design. I assume that North Fork upgraded the Solids to the new design, but I am not sure. I did not request any. I do not care much for the larger 475 B&M. The Super Short is a good little cartridge. Since I don't support the larger 475 B&M I ceased all work with it. But the bullets are there, and they are super.

View attachment 694407View attachment 694408View attachment 694409View attachment 694410

Would give you a few more options to work with if desired.........

All of these are very capable bullets. I shot several buffalo with the CEB and North Forks with the larger 475 B&M, my son used his Super Short on buffalo and even took elephant and hippo with the 350 #13 Solid and did not come up short anywhere.

Hey Michael I’ll be in touch!

 

[CZDiesel]

*the loads here in this post are designed for my rifle only!*

So I’m where I want to be with the 470 Capstick load development in my “Big Five” Winchester M-70!
I started by contacting my PH in Zimbabwe who handloads all of his ammunition. He has guided and personally taken Elephant and Buffalo for over 20years in three different countries. So I figured to ask him where he thought I should be with velocity. He warned me about pushing velocity past 2250ftps as his opinion is that both the Barnes TSX and Banded Solids will completely penetrate both Elephant and Buffalo at this velocity and with more velocity you are only endangering other game that might be behind them…
I trust his opinion so I looked to have the round be a definite step up from my 458WinMag yet not going overboard! I want to think it came out perfectly for a DG cartridge!

The loads ended up with a 500gr Barnes Banded Solid and a 500gr Barnes TSX both using 72gr of H4895 which gives an average of 2260ftps for the TSX and 2290ftps for the Banded Solid out of the Winchester’s 24” barrel. This gives 5672ftlbs for the TSX and 5823ftlbs for the Solid. Now the Capstick is capable of 6530ftlbs of energy!!!
Pressure looks to be around 49,000psi! This is a very mild yet powerful load for the round! 72gr is such a light load there is so much more in the tank! If I were a PH looking for a stopping load sure I’d probably step it up but I’m not.
2300ftps would be attainable very easy, 2350 is attainable no problem, and 2400+ I believe is there in this rifle but for me why? My PH quipped that a 500gr at 2400+ would shoot through four Buff lol
Both the TSX and the Banded Solids shoot to the exact point of aim at 50yrds and with a 1/2” to 3/4” average group!
Very happy with these loads and the rifle! I think it kicks less than my 458WinMag lol I’m taking both out to the range this Saturday so I’ll let you know…

Can you see the “Ghost Shoulder”?

Flanked by my 458WinMag load and a 500NE

Flanked by a 505 Gibbs and a 500 Jeff

Serious HP in these photos! The 470 Capstick is growing on me! Big time! And accurate!

It’s been fun learning about this unique cartridge, I knew very little about the 470 Capstick before I bought one. I found out that it is a serious cartridge that also has a ton of flexibility when hand loading! I’m liking it more and more every day!

 

[CZDiesel]

IS THE 470 CAPSTICK THE PERFECT DG CARTRIDGE?

Went to the rang today with @CoElkHunter and @hwr239. We took along a 375 H&H, 450/400NE, 416 Rigby, 458WinMag, 458 Lott, and the 470 Capstick. All are great DG cartridges capable of cleanly taking any game on earth and all have! The 458 Lott and 470 Capstick are true “Stopping” cartridges but something funny happened when we were firing the rifles back to back to gauge the recoil levels and the ease and comfort of shooting!
The Capstick though the most powerful recoiled the least of the Big Bore rifles and was really close to the same as the 375 H&H! My mind is still blown that it’s pushing a 500gr Barnes Banded solid over 120fps faster than the 458WinMags 500gr Hornady DGS and it seriously feels as if it has half the recoil! It was on par with the 450/400.
The Lott, Rigby, and WinMag all kicked harder and were less comfortable to shoot. So I’m beginning to think that the Capstick might be the ultimate DG cartridge as one can have a 6500ftlb of energy monster or dial it back a little to 458 Lott velocities like I did and have a pussycat to shoot where one doesn’t worry about detaching reticles! I just can’t get over having this level of power with such a manageable recoil SMH
The Winchester M-70 with the 470 Capstick just might be the ultimate combo for DG!

 

[CoElkHunter]

IS THE 470 CAPSTICK THE PERFECT DG CARTRIDGE?

Went to the rang today with @CoElkHunter and @hwr239. We took along a 375 H&H, 450/400NE, 416 Rigby, 458WinMag, 458 Lott, and the 470 Capstick. All are great DG cartridges capable of cleanly taking any game on earth and all have! The 458 Lott and 470 Capstick are true “Stopping” cartridges but something funny happened when we were firing the rifles back to back to gauge the recoil levels and the ease and comfort of shooting!
The Capstick though the most powerful recoiled the least of the Big Bore rifles and was really close to the same as the 375 H&H! My mind is still blown that it’s pushing a 500gr Barnes Banded solid over 120fps faster than the 458WinMags 500gr Hornady DGS and it seriously feels as if it has half the recoil! It was on par with the 450/400.
The Lott, Rigby, and WinMag all kicked harder and were less comfortable to shoot. So I’m beginning to think that the Capstick might be the ultimate DG cartridge as one can have a 6500ftlb of energy monster or dial it back a little to 458 Lott velocities like I did and have a pussycat to shoot where one doesn’t worry about detaching reticles! I just can’t get over having this level of power with such a manageable recoil SMH
The Winchester M-70 with the 470 Capstick just might be the ultimate combo for DG!

I can attest to the noticeably less felt recoil with the .470 Capstick than the other stuff we shot today. The felt recoil was also only very slightly more than CZ’s Winchester M70 .375 H&H. I was very surprised.

 

[krish]

So you guys are telling me that I should keep my A-dsqure 470 Capstic.
Krish

 

[hwr239]

The .470 Capstick surprised me, even though I didn't want to like it. Its recoil is very mild for the amount of power it has. It opened my eyes to what a great cartridge this is. Will it replace my .458 Win Mag? Perhaps...

 

[CZDiesel]

So you guys are telling me that I should keep my A-dsqure 470 Capstic.
Krish

I wouldn’t! It’s jumped to the front of the pack in DC cartridges for me and I’ll be taking it instead of the 458WinMag for elephant now!

 

[Muting the Goat]

Very cool. It sounds like a good cartridge.

 

[krish]

I wouldn’t! It’s jumped to the front of the pack in DC cartridges for me and I’ll be taking it instead of the 458WinMag for elephant now!

I am glad I kept it. It was almost sold. Good. Collected enough properly head stamped brass to last a couple of generations. Picked up 10 boxes of Swift Aframe 500gr bullets alomg with 2k of Barnes 500gr Tsx, plus 500 of banded solids. Scope it or red dot i have not madeup my mind. Going to load some ammo and go try it out. The rifle is unfired so for. What is the load fid you use.
Krish

 

[CZDiesel]

I am glad I kept it. It was almost sold. Good. Collected enough properly head stamped brass to last a couple of generations. Picked up 10 boxes of Swift Aframe 500gr bullets alomg with 2k of Barnes 500gr Tsx, plus 500 of banded solids. Scope it or red dot i have not madeup my mind. Going to load some ammo and go try it out. The rifle is unfired so for. What is the load fid you use.
Krish

Hey Krish, what is the question?

 

[krish]

Load dara for 2250 tps.