Time to go long on CRF rifles?

[Aaron N]

The public masses don't want to pay more for a CRF. Most don't know the difference, and an extremely small percentage of those that do know will never be in a situation where it matters. As such they don't care. Tooling costs, R&D, ect are amortized across the total number of units a manufacturer projects they'll make in a specific period of time. In the instance of a CRF they need to amortize this in while accounting for less demand, and a higher price so they're spreading those costs out across less guns.

I've read that PF Actions are more accurate than CRF actions. Not sure how one would test or prove this but if that true it also contributes to why manufacturers are producing PF over CRF when the consumer is hooked on Long Range and Accuracy.

The NRA Show is coming up, all the big manufacturers will be in attendance. Might want to go speak with a few of them and get their feedback on the CRF vs PF.

Exactly!!

 

[Cheesehead]

I've read that PF Actions are more accurate than CRF actions. Not sure how one would test or prove this but if that true it also contributes to why manufacturers are producing PF over CRF when the consumer is hooked on Long Range and Accuracy.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why PF would be more accurate. You'd think there would be a dozen things that make a bigger impact on accuracy than PF vs CRF

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

For the life of me, I can't figure out why PF would be more accurate. You'd think there would be a dozen things that make a bigger impact on accuracy than PF vs CRF

Exactly ….

I’m not an engineer, and I’m speculating but maybe it’s how the bolt seats the round into the chamber and where pressure is applied on the case? Maybe it has something to do with the bolt design and firing pin? Maybe the machining tolerances are easier to get more accurate on a PF because it’s less parts? I know a gas operated gun like an AR, is traditionally less accurate than a bolt action. With that in mind it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a slight difference between PF & CRF like I’ve read. Again not saying it’s true, not sure if we’re talking 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 MOA difference in accuracy, I just know I’ve read that, had more than one gun smith tell me that when discussing rifle builds. Most Military/LE Sniper Platforms I can think of PF actions. Not saying this proves anything because there’s a lot more than accuracy as a requirement to winning a government contract

 

[MS 9x56]

The public masses don't want to pay more for a CRF. Most don't know the difference, and an extremely small percentage of those that do know will never be in a situation where it matters. As such they don't care. Tooling costs, R&D, ect are amortized across the total number of units a manufacturer projects they'll make in a specific period of time. In the instance of a CRF they need to amortize this in while accounting for less demand, and a higher price so they're spreading those costs out across less guns.

I've read that PF Actions are more accurate than CRF actions. Not sure how one would test or prove this but if that true it also contributes to why manufacturers are producing PF over CRF when the consumer is hooked on Long Range and Accuracy.

The NRA Show is coming up, all the big manufacturers will be in attendance. Might want to go speak with a few of them and get their feedback on the CRF vs PF.

The only reason they are making push feed rather than. CRF is that it is cheaper to make.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

The only reason they are making push feed rather than. CRF is that it is cheaper to make.

It’s not the only reason, it’s a contributing factor but keep telling yourself that

 

[MS 9x56]

Exactly ….

I’m not an engineer, and I’m speculating but maybe it’s how the bolt seats the round into the chamber and where pressure is applied on the case? Maybe it has something to do with the bolt design and firing pin? Maybe the machining tolerances are easier to get more accurate on a PF because it’s less parts? I know a gas operated gun like an AR, is traditionally less accurate than a bolt action. With that in mind it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a slight difference between PF & CRF like I’ve read. Again not saying it’s true, not sure if we’re talking 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 MOA difference in accuracy, I just know I’ve read that, had more than one gun smith tell me that when discussing rifle builds. Most Military/LE Sniper Platforms I can think of PF actions. Not saying this proves anything because there’s a lot more than accuracy as a requirement to winning a government contract

It is really much simpler than all that. It is easier to make 2 rings concentric than one ring with a key way slot cut in it.

 

[Cheesehead]

Exactly ….

I’m not an engineer, and I’m speculating but maybe it’s how the bolt seats the round into the chamber and where pressure is applied on the case? Maybe it has something to do with the bolt design and firing pin? Maybe the machining tolerances are easier to get more accurate on a PF because it’s less parts? I know a gas operated gun like an AR, is traditionally less accurate than a bolt action. With that in mind it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a slight difference between PF & CRF like I’ve read. Again not saying it’s true, not sure if we’re talking 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 MOA difference in accuracy, I just know I’ve read that, had more than one gun smith tell me that when discussing rifle builds. Most Military/LE Sniper Platforms I can think of PF actions. Not saying this proves anything because there’s a lot more than accuracy as a requirement to winning a government contract

I have heard and read it over and over that PF rifles are more accurate and have often asked for an explanation, but I have yet to receive a coherent one. I have typically been told to look at what rifles the snipers and benchrest shooters are using, but that doesn't address why one would be more accurate than the other. It's not even really evidence to support the argument. It might just be that it is easier (and therefore cheaper) to make a PF action achieve whatever accuracy standard the shooter requires, but that is an entirely different thing than saying the PF is more accurate.

 

[Joker12]

Any accuracy differences would be so small that they would not be noticeable or important in a hunting rifle but the reliability of the CRF rifle would be noticeable. The most accurate rifle that I have ever owned was a pre64 M70 Winchester standard weight 243. With Sierra 85gr bullets that rifle would routinely shoot 10 shot groups (100yds) that could be covered with a dime. Stupidly I sold it long ago.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I have heard and read it over and over that PF rifles are more accurate and have often asked for an explanation, but I have yet to receive a coherent one. I have typically been told to look at what rifles the snipers and benchrest shooters are using, but that doesn't address why one would be more accurate than the other. It's not even really evidence to support the argument. It might just be that it is easier (and therefore cheaper) to make a PF action achieve whatever accuracy standard the shooter requires, but that is an entirely different thing than saying the PF is more accurate.

As I said, I’ve only read it and been told it but no one can explain why or to what degree the difference is. I wonder how much has to do with modern tooling and machining but then there’s a lack of CRF on the market. When I compare Pre64 M70’s to current ones I generally see the new ones as a little more accurate but that’s me shooting not from a vice so there are variables. I agree on the sniper comment and think i addressed that accuracy is only one part of those contracts