Sporting Clays - Caesar Guerini Summit Sporting

[HankBuck]

It does have choke tubes but the much lighter weight barrels (thinner walls) that 2 3/4” proof allows. You are right on changing chokes. I shot at a very high level and never did it, a total waste of time IMO. I believe it was Gary Phillips who won the World’s without changing a tube. The first time you shoot midi’s off the 130’ deck at Holland and Holland with an IC or 1/4 choke you will realize how effective modern loads are at distance. I no longer compete for a number of reasons, one of which is the ridiculous rule change allowing a high gun. Mounting a shotgun is integral to shooting a shotgun. It is mind boggling to me why we insist on dumbing down clay target games in this country.

WAB, agree with you on chokes - too much thought goes into them and much of that is “marketing” and convincing an entire generation that after market & extended chokes are “needed” vs. just a very modest improvement in ”some patterns”. A top shooter rarely changes chokes and some never do - they shoot tight patterns (Mod & Mod) or tighter on every station and a few use barrels with fixed chokes. I think “patterning” your shotgun and some loads makes sense and I know I might do that with my new shotgun — although I had an Olympic shooter tell me he never does “pattern them on a straight away target like Low 7 skeet” he said and only on a board if having problems, several older skeet shooters told me the same thing. Regarding U.S. Sporting Clays changing the original rules to allow pre mounting gun - I agree, it detracts from the game, raised scores, changes how courses are now set, and forces competitors to Now pre mount on some stations in order to be competitive. I’ve had to adapt and “tighten up” my mount and rarely Pre Mount on some stations. However, there is still FITASC and International Skeet for those truely talented World Class shooters…..I’ve shot them both and proved I’m NOT World Class !!

 

[BeeMaa]

I've been on the sporting clays range a few time with @HankBuck and he's a good shooter. Better than me on most stations.

What I have started doing is listening to him. On our most recent outing, I was having a hell of a time breaking a clay because I start with the gun at my waist to simulate an actual hunting scenario. In any event, he asked me to put the shotgun in the high ready position and PULL, BANG...broken clay on the first try. Happened on a few occasions that day as well.

No, this will not change my normal "very" low ready starting position, but on a few stations I'll make an adjustment to see if I'm capable of making the right shot. Thanks to @HankBuck for the pointers.

Another funny thing is that I will always break a clay when it's thrown and I don't expect it. More instinctive style shooting I suppose.

@HankBuck - Looking forward to seeing what you get and watching you put it though the paces. What's your timeline for this project?

 

[HankBuck]

I've been on the sporting clays range a few time with @HankBuck and he's a good shooter. Better than me on most stations.

What I have started doing is listening to him. On our most recent outing, I was having a hell of a time breaking a clay because I start with the gun at my waist to simulate an actual hunting scenario. In any event, he asked me to put the shotgun in the high ready position and PULL, BANG...broken clay on the first try. Happened on a few occasions that day as well.

No, this will not change my normal "very" low ready starting position, but on a few stations I'll make an adjustment to see if I'm capable of making the right shot. Thanks to @HankBuck for the pointers.

Another funny thing is that I will always break a clay when it's thrown and I don't expect it. More instinctive style shooting I suppose.

@HankBuck - Looking forward to seeing what you get and watching you put it though the paces. What's your timeline for this project?

BeeMaa, you’ve got a “good eye” for shooting clays - understand lead etc.. I think your practice for Hunting makes sense and keeps it fun too…and you have plenty of dead geese that can attest to that. Unfortunately some clay target presentations do Not replicate Hunting (not like Sporting Clays courses that were set in the 1990s), birds are thrown farther away and some are thrown “starting” from 25 yrds out and quartering away (at 55mph) - the fastest reflexes in the World still won’t get a shot off (from Low Gun) before that clay bird is at 45-50 yrds. It can also make the shooter feel “rushed” and begin Snap Shooting - some targets will get broken but Not consistently. For those those shots that “start” at 20-30 yrds out and going away - a tighter mount (cheat mount) with gun just inches off your should (or fully mounted) can help.
Regarding when I actually get a Guerini “in my Hands” — Not sure, hope I can swing one by May….saving my Allowance !

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa, you’ve got a “good eye” for shooting clays - understand lead etc.. I think your practice for Hunting makes sense and keeps it fun too…and you have plenty of dead geese that can attest to that. Unfortunately some clay target presentations do Not replicate Hunting (not like Sporting Clays courses that were set in the 1990s), birds are thrown farther away and some are thrown “starting” from 25 yrds out and quartering away (at 55mph) - the fastest reflexes in the World still won’t get a shot off (from Low Gun) before that clay bird is at 45-50 yrds. It can also make the shooter feel “rushed” and begin Snap Shooting - some targets will get broken but Not consistently. For those those shots that “start” at 20-30 yrds out and going away - a tighter mount (cheat mount) with gun just inches off your should (or fully mounted) can help.
Regarding when I actually get a Guerini “in my Hands” — Not sure, hope I can swing one by May….saving my Allowance !

Shoot me an invite when it arrives. Pun intended.

Might have to bring the F3 for a day of "proper" sporting clays.

 

[WAB]

BeeMaa, you’ve got a “good eye” for shooting clays - understand lead etc.. I think your practice for Hunting makes sense and keeps it fun too…and you have plenty of dead geese that can attest to that. Unfortunately some clay target presentations do Not replicate Hunting (not like Sporting Clays courses that were set in the 1990s), birds are thrown farther away and some are thrown “starting” from 25 yrds out and quartering away (at 55mph) - the fastest reflexes in the World still won’t get a shot off (from Low Gun) before that clay bird is at 45-50 yrds. It can also make the shooter feel “rushed” and begin Snap Shooting - some targets will get broken but Not consistently. For those those shots that “start” at 20-30 yrds out and going away - a tighter mount (cheat mount) with gun just inches off your should (or fully mounted) can help.
Regarding when I actually get a Guerini “in my Hands” — Not sure, hope I can swing one by May….saving my Allowance !

It sounds like we need an AH clays outing! How about at SCI Nashville next year?

 

[BeeMaa]

It sounds like we need an AH clays outing! How about at SCI Nashville next year?

Love it.

Low score buys a round of drinks. I'll start saving now.

 

[WAB]

Love it.

Low score buys a round of drinks. I'll start saving now.

I’ll start researching venues!

 

[Petey J]

Just throwing a couple things out.

I believe Grace Callahan, who is a very high level women’s clay shooter is doing so with a Caesar Guerini. She’s the only one who pops to mind (I’m not a competitive shooter, but spend a lot of time listening to sporting clays podcasts).

If you’re looking for something in the $5,000 area, and wanting cast on for left hand, consider the RFM Armi SK One Sporting through Upland Gun Company. Highly customizable, and they custom build the stock. As in, you need to actually have a professional gun fitting (like using a real try-gun) before completing the order (they recommend a few different fitters and hold fitting events). I am not sure about their long term durability, but I’ve designed what I think is a very nice shotgun several times and usually end up between $5 and $6K. (I swear I am in no way affiliated with UGC or RFM, I just find the idea of a bespoke, hand-made Italian shotgun desirable.)

 

[HankBuck]

Love it.

Low score buys a round of drinks. I'll start saving now.

If it’s a good Bourbon or Scotch — that would take some pain away from a poor score…

 

[BeeMaa]

If it’s a good Bourbon or Scotch — that would take some pain away from a poor score…

I’ll start shooting mounted and we’ll see how it goes.

Did you give any thought to a Kolar or is that a little too specialized?

 

[HankBuck]

I’ll start shooting mounted and we’ll see how it goes.

Did you give any thought to a Kolar or is that a little too specialized?

Bee, honestly I did Not and it has nothing to do with Kolar or a concern with Kolar quality — I’m just not familiar with them and haven’t shot with anyone that has one and never tried one myself. There are so many great quality Clays guns out there I could “get lost” if I didn’t narrow down my search so I tried to focus on some Brands I’ve seen for years (Browning, Beretta, Kreigoff, Perazzi, Caesar) even though I know other quality brands (Rizzini, Kolar, Blazer etc..) are out there. I also know Beretta usually doesn’t fit me as well - stocks are straighter and I don’t care for the look of most Kreigoff even though they are extremely well built. There is certainly some emotional & aesthetic factors in my decision - i like the look of many Italian shotguns and always like nice wood. I don’t shoot well enough to deserve a Perazzi (maybe if I get up to “A” Class) - barely deserve my Browning 425.

 

[BeeMaa]

Bee, honestly I did Not and it has nothing to do with Kolar or a concern with Kolar quality — I’m just not familiar with them and haven’t shot with anyone that has one and never tried one myself. There are so many great quality Clays guns out there I could “get lost” if I didn’t narrow down my search so I tried to focus on some Brands I’ve seen for years (Browning, Beretta, Kreigoff, Perazzi, Caesar) even though I know other quality brands (Rizzini, Kolar, Blazer etc..) are out there. I also know Beretta usually doesn’t fit me as well - stocks are straighter and I don’t care for the look of most Kreigoff even though they are extremely well built. There is certainly some emotional & aesthetic factors in my decision - i like the look of many Italian shotguns and always like nice wood. I don’t shoot well enough to deserve a Perazzi (maybe if I get up to “A” Class) - barely deserve my Browning 425.

Deserve (meaning shooting to the capability of the firearm) has nothing to do with it. It’s having the right equipment to be able to grow into it. As long as you aren’t taking out a second mortgage or putting yourself in financial ruin, you should get what you truly want.

I can’t shoot the the capability of my F3, but using it has made me a better shooter with an O/U. Before that I was doing horribly with two Berettas that I ended up selling because I was convinced the barrels were crooked. Kidding about that, but I shot for crap. Now the F3 is a whole different story. Makes me WANT to go to the clays range and test my limits.

 

[HankBuck]

Deserve (meaning shooting to the capability of the firearm) has nothing to do with it. It’s having the right equipment to be able to grow into it. As long as you aren’t taking out a second mortgage or putting yourself in financial ruin, you should get what you truly want.

I can’t shoot the the capability of my F3, but using it has made me a better shooter with an O/U. Before that I was doing horribly with two Berettas that I ended up selling because I was convinced the barrels were crooked. Kidding about that, but I shot for crap. Now the F3 is a whole different story. Makes me WANT to go to the clays range and test my limits.

Agree, I’m getting what I like and deserve/afford. I’ve shot one Perizzi and didn’t care for it — which was good because i really can’t afford it. Would rather have 2 Caesar’s (12 & 20) then ”1/2” of a Perizzi. I did also like the Beretta DT-11 from a “quality & reputation“ stand point, very sturdy built action and also a very heavy (9 Lb.) Clays gun…it’s also over $15k so that’s another incentive to Up My Game a bit before jumping into that price range (I like Holland & Holland too — but don’t want to take out a mortgage).

 

[Awage528]

I own a 20 ga summit limited and a 12 M-spec as well as a Perazzi, Fausti and Rizzini. I like the CGs the best because of how they fit me and how they handle for me. They do have excellent customer service, a lifetime warranty and a few free services when necessary. The other thing I like is you can customize your gun after the purchase. For example, on the summit I changed out the Schnabel for a rounded sporting forearm. Couple hundred dollars and a couple weeks. Ability to access that factory custom type of service at entry level CG price point is unique and another feature to consider. Or, you can just go with your point #1 and buy want you want. I think you'll be glad you did.

 

[WAB]

If you want a gun fit for you, pop across the pond, get fitted and purchase a proofed gun with euro weight barrels. It’s kind of normal in that neck of the woods to have a stock adjusted to your measurements. Ex the cost of the trip, you could certainly do this on your budget.

A note of caution, this can be addictive.

Also, have your gun mounting technique nailed before you are fitted. You don’t want to ‘build in’ any bad habits.

 

[HankBuck]

I own a 20 ga summit limited and a 12 M-spec as well as a Perazzi, Fausti and Rizzini. I like the CGs the best because of how they fit me and how they handle for me. They do have excellent customer service, a lifetime warranty and a few free services when necessary. The other thing I like is you can customize your gun after the purchase. For example, on the summit I changed out the Schnabel for a rounded sporting forearm. Couple hundred dollars and a couple weeks. Ability to access that factory custom type of service at entry level CG price point is unique and another feature to consider. Or, you can just go with your point #1 and buy want you want. I think you'll be glad you did.

Awage528: Thanks, I also like how the CG Summit “fits Me” and even the Righted handed models have the drop at comb I feel comfortable with — hope the LH w/Lefty cast is even better…but if needed can have stock custom fitted (don’t care for adjustable combs)

 

[HankBuck]

If you want a gun fit for you, pop across the pond, get fitted and purchase a proofed gun with euro weight barrels. It’s kind of normal in that neck of the woods to have a stock adjusted to your measurements. Ex the cost of the trip, you could certainly do this on your budget.

A note of caution, this can be addictive.

Also, have your gun mounting technique nailed before you are fitted. You don’t want to ‘build in’ any bad habits.

WAB: after the costs for flight, hotel, meals, plus importing and declaring firearm/fees etc…. I might just take out an ad in The Times of London: wanted, male 5’ 11”, 180 lbs. (how many Stones is that?) 35” sleeve, - Need to get ”fitted” for Shotgun Stock — must Look-like-a-Yank !

 

[WAB]

WAB: after the costs for flight, hotel, meals, plus importing and declaring firearm/fees etc…. I might just take out an ad in The Times of London: wanted, male 5’ 11”, 180 lbs. (how many Stones is that?) 35” sleeve, - Need to get ”fitted” for Shotgun Stock — must Look-like-a-Yank !

I was including the import fees in your budget but your point is a good one!

I have brought three guns across over the years. It is definitely doable.

 

[Tanks]

First Guerini I bought was a Summit Sporting. I liked it so much that bought an Invictus 3. Have at least 20K shells through the Summit and approaching 30K with the Invictus which has already gone back to the factory for their free tune up.

 

[HankBuck]

First Guerini I bought was a Summit Sporting. I liked it so much that bought an Invictus 3. Have at least 20K shells through the Summit and approaching 30K with the Invictus which has already gone back to the factory for their free tune up.

Tanks: Did the Invictus “loosen up” before the Summit? Or was your “Pit Stop” just preventative maintenance? When do you plan to take the Summit in for it’s Pit Stop?