These all or nothing statements are not conducive to discussion, discourse or conversation.
There are no anti hunters in this discussion.
Dont recall saying there was but seems to be guys taking there side on this subject. I guess each person can decide how to read the choices each person is making.
Are you taking the side of the Anti's by suggesting that "
we clean up our own house" ?
If I were to use the same black and white processes, your comment sounds critical of hunting to me and is siding with the Anti's.
Not taking sides but saying I realize the system is not perfect. I would rather we clean are own house they let them HAVE ANY SAY ON MY HUNTING RIGHTS. Short of poaching I would rather not say anything that hurts hunting rights. May not be perfect but sometimes saying nothing is best. You think ever anti groups believes the same thing. Dont recall them bad mouthing each other because they know it would hurt them long term.
To take it even further:
Why did you let your son pursue the lion?
Why not just shoot it in a cage and save the time and expense?
I can only assume that you would not find that acceptable.
If someone were to call that (shooting in a cage) "hunting" would you have to side with them?
Aren't they "hunters"?
I let him hunt a lion because I wanted him to and a raised lion is what I could afford.To me hunting that lion was find the place I could afford and in the most sporting way we could.
Hunting a lion in a cage would not be for me and I would not like it. But I sure as hell would not broadcast it to the world to help the anti's cause. Again sometime saying nothing is better.Not a great answer but the truth as I dont feel I should tell anyone what to do with an animal they bought. That lion in a cage be any different then the idea dennis gave you of buying two egyptian geese to mount. You think that guy was going to hunt those geese or just kill them to be mounted. I realize some guys look at a lion as special but if we believe all we like to talk about on why we hunt do the geese mean less in the big picture because we rate a lion as a better trophy.
I don't think so. I doubt you do either.
But within a broad definition in my local legislation shooting at or attempting to kill it is hunting.
“hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to a subject animal,
- (i) shoot at, harass or worry,
- (ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
- (iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
- (iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
- (v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person is so hunting;
Where is the line?
The line is what the laws say it is to me and what my beliefs are to me. I dont want to tell ever guy what that is or is not.
Where is it for the majority of people?
Dont know and pretty safe to say no one really does.
Some facts:
The MAJORITY of people in your country DO NOT HUNT.
That means even if every hunter in every jurisdiction voted one way, we would still lose.
So, Politically, we had better get started with the cleaning.
That is if you believe everyone who does not hunt would vote to ban hunting. Must people would not really care either way and we just believe they will take the anti's side. Again after talking to many non hunters about my sons lion hunt and telling them it was raised to hunt must said nothing that was bad. Must thought it still must have been a hunt that my son enjoyed. The people who did not like it did not like hunting already. Same with my giraffe which had more people then the lion feeling sad. Till I told them why he was hunted and how he was over 20 years old and would die soon. That he was not helping the rest of the giraffe on the ranch unless he was hunted. After talking and not being ashamed to tell them why I hunt and the value of it must have a different idea now. In fact I have turned more then a few anti hunters in to being ok with hunting after giving them facts and the truth on why I hunt anyway.
Apparently, the MAJORITY (90%) of the "raised lions" are taken by citizens of the USA.
The SAPA folks appear to know that the USFWS can kill their industry in one fell swoop; Ban Lion imports.
How would you like to convince the rest of your fellow countrymen (never mind hunters) to support raised lion hunting?
I dont need to make everyone like it but sure would be nice if all hunters could back there fellow hunters and stop trying to pass judgement on some because they hunt different then themselves. Lets face it we dont need to convince the masses only the ones who have the power to stop hunting. Dont need to make it a big public debate but take the fight to the people trying to stop hunting.
PHASA is. They just made a statement that says they do not support the status quo. That is the start of the house cleaning.
So I should trust a group were more members did not care to show up about the subject they voted on . I guess I am the only one who sees it as a problem when enough of them dont care to show for a vote. Maybe because like most groups after time goes on they see the good old boy system take place so they just pull away but stay member just because. I am sure this group is so different they must that nothing fishy ever goes on and they run just perfect. They would never think to do what they think is best for them because there only worried about us clients and not what they put in there pockets after we pay them to hunt.
Phasa like any group fights for what will help them . Why did they fight to lift the air freight ban? I guess just because is was the right thing to do for us hunters right. I bet it had nothing to do with the business they were going to lose when us hunter stopped going because we could not get are trophies home. Am I glad they helped fight it you bet I am but I also know why they did it. So yes they have value to us hunters but in the end they are there because of us hunters. No hunters no phasa.
The point Jaco made, that I just reiterated.
Point out the (some) solutions.
Make some suggestions.
