Lee Factory Crimp Die for .470 NE

[rookhawk]

On the topic of Crimping, a Lee Crimp die is a special tool that makes the job easier, but with little practice a standard Seating die like RCBS and or Redding can do the same thing effectively. Trick is to go slow very slow infact on the crimping till you find the ideal crimp. Can be done very easily.

On largebore rounds, its very common (and frustrating) to attempt to seat and crimp simultaneously. Barnes TSX are notoriously difficult to get seated and crimped.

A lot of manuals recommend that you seat the bullet as one process, then reset the die without the seating stem and do your crimps. That's fine. Buying a crimp die is even better. Buying a spare seating die to dedicate to crimp alone is a third option.

If the thread shows anything, its that Graeme Wright was error proned. That's not a dig on him, he was the first to write a good book on largebore rifle loading. But he was also inexperienced when he did so. He has corrected a great many errors in his writings in the 3rd edition of his book. I have no desire to crap on the man's work because he had the courage to write it down, but it isn't gospel.

His quote in later editions were that he now crimps because he has hunted in Africa and understands the utility. He goes on to emphasize if you don't crimp, your loads need to be re-regulated once again if you introduce a crimp. You can't fault an author that recants from bad positions, I certainly have had incorrect positions on a myriad of topics and had to correct my theories in light of new data. Hopefully the reader of this thread is able to do the same.

 

[soumya sarkar]

On largebore rounds, its very common (and frustrating) to attempt to seat and crimp simultaneously. Barnes TSX are notoriously difficult to get seated and crimped.

A lot of manuals recommend that you seat the bullet as one process, then reset the die without the seating stem and do your crimps. That's fine. Buying a crimp die is even better. Buying a spare seating die to dedicate to crimp alone is a third option.

If the thread shows anything, its that Graeme Wright was error proned. That's not a dig on him, he was the first to write a good book on largebore rifle loading. But he was also inexperienced when he did so. He has corrected a great many errors in his writings in the 3rd edition of his book. I have no desire to crap on the man's work because he had the courage to write it down, but it isn't gospel.

His quote in later editions were that he now crimps because he has hunted in Africa and understands the utility. He goes on to emphasize if you don't crimp, your loads need to be re-regulated once again if you introduce a crimp. You can't fault an author that recants from bad positions, I certainly have had incorrect positions on a myriad of topics and had to correct my theories in light of new data. Hopefully the reader of this thread is able to do the same.

Agreed, I never seat and Crimp in one operation rather first seat the bullet, pull the seating plug all the way up so that it doesn't touch the seated bullet and then crimp. The process of crimping is a delicate operation and the trick is to go slow, turning the die max a quarter at at time when the die body has touched the crimp shoulder of the loaded round. This has been my learning experience from my first round of loading....I don't have Graeme Wright book or any manual, just learned from this great forum, youtube etc so sharing my 2 cents

 

[rookhawk]

Agreed, I never seat and Crimp in one operation rather first seat the bullet, pull the seating plug all the way up so that it doesn't touch the seated bullet and then crimp. The process of crimping is a delicate operation and the trick is to go slow, turning the die max a quarter at at time when the die body has touched the crimp shoulder of the loaded round. This has been my learning experience from my first round of loading....I don't have Graeme Wright book or any manual, just learned from this great forum, youtube etc so sharing my 2 cents

All the anal retentive stuff you're hearing on this forum, including from me, is because we live in a time=money era. Most of us have turret presses and we set our dies up one time (takes a lot of time) and thereafter we never wish to adjust them ever again. That's why its handy to have crimping dies or a separate seating die just for that operation, so you don't have to redo anything.

I cannot make better ammunition, faster, and cheaper than premium factory ammo. Reloading is not relaxing or enjoyable for me, its a necessary evil for calibers I cannot buy pre-loaded, or that won't regulate, or that lack the bullet options best for my application. But in general, I really don't enjoy it at all because its a horribly inefficient use of my precious free time.

I envy someone that has low overhead and ample time, then a lot of these anal retentive details don't matter because that person can putter along at a snails pace making exceptional ammo for pleasure on rainy days.

 

[soumya sarkar]

All the anal retentive stuff you're hearing on this forum, including from me, is because we live in a time=money era. Most of us have turret presses and we set our dies up one time (takes a lot of time) and thereafter we never wish to adjust them ever again. That's why its handy to have crimping dies or a separate seating die just for that operation, so you don't have to redo anything.

I cannot make better ammunition, faster, and cheaper than premium factory ammo. Reloading is not relaxing or enjoyable for me, its a necessary evil for calibers I cannot buy pre-loaded, or that won't regulate, or that lack the bullet options best for my application. But in general, I really don't enjoy it at all because its a horribly inefficient use of my precious free time.

I envy someone that has low overhead and ample time, then a lot of these anal retentive details don't matter because that person can putter along at a snails pace making exceptional ammo for pleasure on rainy days.

I hear you. On this notion of having a dedicated die just for seating and or crimping I have a question : After doing some permutations and combinations with different bullets (all 500 grn .474 dia) and brasses from different manufactures, I found no two are the same. Hell, even two brass or bullets may have a difference in either dimensions or weight.

From my loading references Hornady and XXL mainly I see for example the C.O.A.L is different for the same weight bullet but with different powders/brass combination.

Third variable is the SAMI specifications, which though is a range and understood.

In light of these variables how do you decide for example on the C.O.A.L across these combinations and set the die to one setting?

 

[cajunchefray]

Hi all. Just sharing info in case it’s helpful. Likely redundant for many of you guys. I just ordered a Lee Factory Crimp die for my .470. Lee Precision was very nice and helpful.

My process thus far-
1- Call Lee Precision. Ask to order custom crimp die.
2- they create the order, charge your card and request you send a dummy round ( no powder/primer). I loaded an A-frame into case to depth/COAL I wanted and mailed to them in bubble mailer USPS. (shockingly they received it 48 hrs later and I wasn’t tackled in post office for shipping bombs etc)
3-I now wait 6-8 weeks although they stated likely shorter.

Important info I learned-
1-.470 is considered a “large” format due by Lee. What does this mean? It will have a 1 1/4 - 12 thread. This is important as it fits a Lee press. I do not have a Lee press. I have an RCBS Ammomaster II. My press can accommodate 7/8-14 threaded dies with bushing inserted or 1 1/2-12 threaded dies with bushing removed. Solution? Lee sells a bushing adapter to reduce 1 1/2-12 to the 1 1/4-12 thread so die will work with out buying new press.
2- .470 Custom Lee Factory Crimp Die is more expensive than standard Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

Price as of today -
Die- $125
Bushing adapter- $12
Shipping (WI to northwest IL- $11.50
Credit card convenience fee-$5.20
Grand total - $153.70

Thank you for sharing information, and current pricing on Lee Factory Crimp Dies for the .470 Nitro Express. Good news that Lee is still in the game.

1. We should all be pleased that Lee Precision will still make Custom FCD. I have purchased from Lee Precision; Custom .500 Jeffery and .416 Taylor FCD dies over the last few years. Prices have changed.

2. I always use Lee FCD, for .270 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield, .35 Whelen, .375 H&H, and .458 Winchester Magnum. For handguns, .357 Magnum, and .44 Special (Magnum). Every round makes consistent ammo, I have not personally tested ammo velocity, ES, SD, etc. but has been tested thoroughly.

3. We should support the business of Lee Precision to supply tools for us reloaders/ hunters/ shooters.

I see no downside to using a Factory Crimp Die for Dangerous Game calibers. It's just like buying a little extra insurance, doesn't cost much and all the benefits.

Yes, a few seconds work, I set the Lee FCD on the 3rd station on my turret press. Case trimming is not as critical (.002 to.003 inches). Just seat, and then crimp, DONE.

The bullets hold.

Charles Ray, aka Cajunchef

 

[rookhawk]

I hear you. On this notion of having a dedicated die just for seating and or crimping I have a question : After doing some permutations and combinations with different bullets (all 500 grn .474 dia) and brasses from different manufactures, I found no two are the same. Hell, even two brass or bullets may have a difference in either dimensions or weight.

From my loading references Hornady and XXL mainly I see for example the C.O.A.L is different for the same weight bullet but with different powders/brass combination.

Third variable is the SAMI specifications, which though is a range and understood.

In light of these variables how do you decide for example on the C.O.A.L across these combinations and set the die to one setting?

For perfection, you cannot. For the pragmatist (safari rifle hunter) perfect accuracy isn’t the goal, you’re looking for excellent regulation in your double and you’re looking for perfect feed and extract in your magazine rifle, right?

So for a caliber that you own a bolt and double combined, I regulate for the DR first using the best COAL specs that work for regulation. I then feed that stuff (well within SAAMI/CIP parameters) in the magazine rifles. I do this so any ammo I have for a given caliber works perfect in the double rifle, and will work effectively in all the magazine rifles.

To the second point of your question, it was about COAL with various types of bullets. That’s harder if you want a wide variety of bullets. Generally, if I’m doing TSX/TTSX it’s a custom setup and tear down of the bullet seating die because nothing else is like them. If I’m doing the normal, which is a soft and a conventional (lead core) solid, you can find bullets so close and complimentary you can do one setup for both types. (E.g. Woodleigh SP and solid, or Hornady DGX/DGS, or TBBC and TB Sledgehammer)

 

[cajunchefray]

On largebore rounds, its very common (and frustrating) to attempt to seat and crimp simultaneously. Barnes TSX are notoriously difficult to get seated and crimped.

A lot of manuals recommend that you seat the bullet as one process, then reset the die without the seating stem and do your crimps. That's fine. Buying a crimp die is even better. Buying a spare seating die to dedicate to crimp alone is a third option.

If the thread shows anything, its that Graeme Wright was error proned. That's not a dig on him, he was the first to write a good book on largebore rifle loading. But he was also inexperienced when he did so. He has corrected a great many errors in his writings in the 3rd edition of his book. I have no desire to crap on the man's work because he had the courage to write it down, but it isn't gospel.

His quote in later editions were that he now crimps because he has hunted in Africa and understands the utility. He goes on to emphasize if you don't crimp, your loads need to be re-regulated once again if you introduce a crimp. You can't fault an author that recants from bad positions, I certainly have had incorrect positions on a myriad of topics and had to correct my theories in light of new data. Hopefully the reader of this thread is able to do the same.

Very True.

 

[soumya sarkar]

For perfection, you cannot. For the pragmatist (safari rifle hunter) perfect accuracy isn’t the goal, you’re looking for excellent regulation in your double and you’re looking for perfect feed and extract in your magazine rifle, right?

So for a caliber that you own a bolt and double combined, I regulate for the DR first using the best COAL specs that work for regulation. I then feed that stuff (well within SAAMI/CIP parameters) in the magazine rifles. I do this so any ammo I have for a given caliber works perfect in the double rifle, and will work effectively in all the magazine rifles.

To the second point of your question, it was about COAL with various types of bullets. That’s harder if you want a wide variety of bullets. Generally, if I’m doing TSX/TTSX it’s a custom setup and tear down of the bullet seating die because nothing else is like them. If I’m doing the normal, which is a soft and a conventional (lead core) solid, you can find bullets so close and complimentary you can do one setup for both types. (E.g. Woodleigh SP and solid, or Hornady DGX/DGS, or TBBC and TB Sledgehammer)

Well described.

 

[Monski]

This whole thread has been excellent and informative!

 

[DrBob]

Heads up...Midwayusa is selling A-Frame 470 NE bullets at a steep discount. Worth a look...

 

[Wahoo]

Heads up...Midwayusa is selling A-Frame 470 NE bullets at a steep discount. Worth a look...

Thank you. Appreciate the heads up. Curious they list swift AFrame at .475 diameter as opposed to .474. Any thoughts?

 

[DrBob]

Thank you. Appreciate the heads up. Curious they list swift AFrame at .475 diameter as opposed to .474. Any thoughts?

A-Frame lists them at 0.474 so I guess a typo. The A-Frames will be a slightly higher pressure for velocity due to construction. In shooting an old double, I'd stick to Woodleighs or cast lead. Good to see Woodleigh coming back.

 

[DrBob]

Thank you for sharing information, and current pricing on Lee Factory Crimp Dies for the .470 Nitro Express. Good news that Lee is still in the game.

1. We should all be pleased that Lee Precision will still make Custom FCD. I have purchased from Lee Precision; Custom .500 Jeffery and .416 Taylor FCD dies over the last few years. Prices have changed.

2. I always use Lee FCD, for .270 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield, .35 Whelen, .375 H&H, and .458 Winchester Magnum. For handguns, .357 Magnum, and .44 Special (Magnum). Every round makes consistent ammo, I have not personally tested ammo velocity, ES, SD, etc. but has been tested thoroughly.

3. We should support the business of Lee Precision to supply tools for us reloaders/ hunters/ shooters.

I see no downside to using a Factory Crimp Die for Dangerous Game calibers. It's just like buying a little extra insurance, doesn't cost much and all the benefits.

Yes, a few seconds work, I set the Lee FCD on the 3rd station on my turret press. Case trimming is not as critical (.002 to.003 inches). Just seat, and then crimp, DONE.

The bullets hold.

Charles Ray, aka Cajunchef

I like the Lee because no pressure on the case and a good firm crimp. In older days, moving the left barrel load over to the right was suggested to keep from bullet creep.

 

[Wahoo]

Hi all. Just sharing info in case it’s helpful. Likely redundant for many of you guys. I just ordered a Lee Factory Crimp die for my .470. Lee Precision was very nice and helpful.

My process thus far-
1- Call Lee Precision. Ask to order custom crimp die.
2- they create the order, charge your card and request you send a dummy round ( no powder/primer). I loaded an A-frame into case to depth/COAL I wanted and mailed to them in bubble mailer USPS. (shockingly they received it 48 hrs later and I wasn’t tackled in post office for shipping bombs etc)
3-I now wait 6-8 weeks although they stated likely shorter.

Important info I learned-
1-.470 is considered a “large” format due by Lee. What does this mean? It will have a 1 1/4 - 12 thread. This is important as it fits a Lee press. I do not have a Lee press. I have an RCBS Ammomaster II. My press can accommodate 7/8-14 threaded dies with bushing inserted or 1 1/2-12 threaded dies with bushing removed. Solution? Lee sells a bushing adapter to reduce 1 1/2-12 to the 1 1/4-12 thread so die will work with out buying new press.
2- .470 Custom Lee Factory Crimp Die is more expensive than standard Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

Price as of today -
Die- $125
Bushing adapter- $12
Shipping (WI to northwest IL- $11.50
Credit card convenience fee-$5.20
Grand total - $153.70

Update- received my crimp die and bushing adapter today. So recap on timeline- Lee received my dummy round on 3/5/24 and I have products in hand today 4/6/24. Couldn’t have been nicer people to work with.

 

[cajunchefray]

Good deal! One month turnaround for a custom die, in these days is special. Lee Precision will continue to have my business.

 

[CAustin]

Hi all. Just sharing info in case it’s helpful. Likely redundant for many of you guys. I just ordered a Lee Factory Crimp die for my .470. Lee Precision was very nice and helpful.

My process thus far-
1- Call Lee Precision. Ask to order custom crimp die.
2- they create the order, charge your card and request you send a dummy round ( no powder/primer). I loaded an A-frame into case to depth/COAL I wanted and mailed to them in bubble mailer USPS. (shockingly they received it 48 hrs later and I wasn’t tackled in post office for shipping bombs etc)
3-I now wait 6-8 weeks although they stated likely shorter.

Important info I learned-
1-.470 is considered a “large” format due by Lee. What does this mean? It will have a 1 1/4 - 12 thread. This is important as it fits a Lee press. I do not have a Lee press. I have an RCBS Ammomaster II. My press can accommodate 7/8-14 threaded dies with bushing inserted or 1 1/2-12 threaded dies with bushing removed. Solution? Lee sells a bushing adapter to reduce 1 1/2-12 to the 1 1/4-12 thread so die will work with out buying new press.
2- .470 Custom Lee Factory Crimp Die is more expensive than standard Lee Factory Crimp Dies.

Price as of today -
Die- $125
Bushing adapter- $12
Shipping (WI to northwest IL- $11.50
Credit card convenience fee-$5.20
Grand total - $153.70

Glad to hear they are making them again.