Is retiring to Africa a wise decision?

[WAB]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention Botswana. I guess not a lot of our members have hunted there? It’s the most stable and easy-going of the African countries that I have hunted. The PHs and other white people I saw that lived in Maun were very comfortable and travelled freely and without much worry. There’s lots to do near Maun. You can go north and west to the Okavango Delta or Chobe NP or the Moremi Game Reserve. You can go south into the Kalahari. The airport in Maun is easy to negotiate with connections to JNB or Gaborone. The hunting and tourism are fantastic.

I would put Botswana way ahead of SA.

Agreed, I love Botswana. Not that many folks have traveled there, which keeps it off the radar.

 

[fourfive8]

I don't know about retiring anywhere in Africa.... But, Botswana, IMO, is one of the most underrated if not the most underrated country in Africa. I guess travelog researching during hottest and driest time of year might be discouraging- especially in the areas of the Central Kalahari down away from the river or the delta. Hmmm, then again?? I might be happy trying to emulate a Hemingway or Capstick lifestyle at a hangout bar in Maun

 

[Tam Dl]

Just talking about the Genocide, nothing else. Rwanda could be fantastic, now that the dusting is over.

The median age is under 20, and the Genocide was almost 30 years ago. On the other hand there seem to have been about four other regional genocides, since the end of colonial rule, in which 100K-250K people have been killed in each. Plus the big one about which they made a movie. As a general rule I prefer not to live in places where there is something entirely different behind people's smiling faces. I would not be against exploiting the situation if there was some reason to expect it was working to the advantage of retirees from abroad. It is just too complicated. Having had a view into the nonsense in Belfast I don't really have time for that kind of stuff.

I have no problem with visiting there, or hunting there. Tourism is the ultimate low commitment exercise.

 

[DLSJR]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. I’m probably 4-6 years from retirement, as I’m 64. I could retire now if it wasn’t for my desire to keep hunting in Africa. I just returned from Tanzania a week ago and will be in Cameroon in February, so I’m nowhere near retiring for at least 4 years.

My plan has been to leave California when I retire and spend summers living at Lake Tahoe, then winter in Arizona. But I’ve always figured I’d spend 3-4 months a year overseas with much of that wandering around Africa. I’ve never given serious thought to owning a place in Africa due to the political instability of many countries and being tied down to a single place.

My thought leans more toward renting a nice place for 3-6 months, enjoy it to the fullest, then go somewhere else. I could easily see living in Cape Town or Stellenbosch, Botswana, northern Tanzania and the Kenya coast for a few months at a time, then coming home to be with family and enjoy Tahoe summers.

My thoughts are that retirement living, while my good health holds out, should be along the lines of the “Three F’s” and just rent with no huge investment or long term commitment.

 

[Rare Breed]

All true except the cost to live a similar lifestyle is five fold and let's not even start talking about Texas hunting prices..
I've recently saw a private ranch Axis hunt advertised for $5000.00! LOL

so true. i lived there 9 years. Their public land is almost impossible to hunt. However while i was on a lease twice I found you just have to search thousands of Texas outfitters to get what you want. A nice deer can cost $1,000 or $20,000

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

At the top of my recommendation would be to buy into a hunting ranch operation near Hoedspruit South Africa. Why?
1. It is a civilized country.
2. Excellent health care.
3. Good internet.
4. Very well stocked shops, you can get anything.
5. Enough wild to give you the Africa experience.
6. The game operations are fenced, you are safe in there.
7. Excellent air services from Johannesburg to most centres in the country, including Hoedspruit.
8. Hoedspruit is near Kruger Park, it is warm.
9. Cost of living is reasonable.

It is difficult to get a residence permit, but I believe there is an investment to retire option.

That is if you wanted to buy. But just to hire places it would be magical to base up in Cape Town and then flit around Siuthern Africa, hunt, just drive around, base up in little seaside towns on the Namibian coast for a week and do some writing. It is very easy going. English is spoken everywhere.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

We ponder this question a lot as we're very close to retirement.
Hunting aside there are a lot of nice and interesting places in the World to live as a retiree than here,
US unfortunately became a place where you get less and less for your money unless you don't care about money and very wealthy. Obviously if you have no yardstick to compare you probably won't know but I'm assuming most people here are well traveled and aware.
One solution is to find a place where you can live part time and spend 5-6 months there when the weather is better and then come back to your permanent residence.
As an example if you live in the South where Summers are becoming unbearable spend Summers in South hemisphere like Namibia, Botswana, Argentina etc.. and Winter back home.
Doing that you can pick a different country every year and have options.
Also your financial commitment will be zero if there are problems.
As far as Heath care I don't see it as an issue unless you need something very specialized and immediate.
For basic health care most countries mentioned above are very good and it's extremely affordable even when you pay out of pocket and doctors spend time with you unlike here.
Food for thought.

I am a Zimbabwean who is going thru major medical in RSA figure $10,000.00 a week. I am not quite sure you should call it medical care.

Lon

 

[Frederik]

I am a Zimbabwean who is going thru major medical in RSA figure $10,000.00 a week. I am not quite sure you should call it medical care.

Lon

Lon, unless you are in the EU medical care is expensive everywhere in the world and on that note keep on fighting.

I hate paying my medical insurance every month as it is high but with that I know I'm basically covered.

 

[VertigoBE]

With this thread coming back, I'd love to hear from the collective wisdom on the following:
My wife and I are (well) under 40, since 2 months with two <3 year old girls at home. Both my wife and I have quite demanding careers. The grandparents live a little too far, and have a little too many social obligations for us to be leaving them there all the time. We live in the capital of Belgium, a town house with a small garden.

Currently the oldest still goes to the kindergarten, starting introduction school end of this year (hopefully). So in about 2-3 years time, both girls will be going to school. This means school holidays and more importantly the summer holidays, they will be home for 2 months. (next to the 2 week Easter holiday, 2 week Christmas holiday and some other weeks left and right). No way our employers will allow us to take off for 2 months with full pay. But we can both work from a distance quite easily.

Our thinking was to perhaps look at finding a place in Southern Africa, big house, lot's of garden, affordable full time nanny's/housekeeping/cook, good weather and tranquility. Where we can part work from distance, and part be on holiday. It would be the nature, holiday feeling for all, more hours that can be spent together creating nice memories. No kids running wild in the Brussels streets, getting involved with all the wrong people. Weekends or when we are all off, we can go for adventures with them. Taking cheap flights all over, to the sea, mountains, desert, or wherever we like. Or just stay at 'home' and enjoy the animals coming in for a drink in the evening. Some light hunting from time to time as well.

The house would need to be big enough that with cheap flights(i've found flights 5-700 EUR roundtrip to Johannesburg. While taking the TGV to Marseille would be 250 EUR pp as well), our extended families could comfortably come over and spend time all together, as all our respective houses are getting too small to receive everyone all at once. Christmas in Africa?

With Southern Africa being roughly in the same timezone's, it would be seamless to work from a distance from there. The months that we would not be there, we would rent it out via an agency, in order to recoup some of the maintenance costs of the property.

Any thoughts?

 

[AES]

Cool idea, terrible in practice. Just my opinion.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

It could be done, but the cost would be quite high. In Zimbabwe I live that exact life in a large house on three acres, but in the city so close to shops and amenities. Two house workers and a gardener. Budget at least US$8k a month.

In Johannesburg a large free standing house is not so desirable for security reasons, but you can find them in a secure area. Budget about US$10k pm.

 

[VertigoBE]

It could be done, but the cost would be quite high. In Zimbabwe I live that exact life in a large house on three acres, but in the city so close to shops and amenities. Two house workers and a gardener. Budget at least US$8k a month.

In Johannesburg a large free standing house is not so desirable for security reasons, but you can find them in a secure area. Budget about US$10k pm.

That is interesting to hear. What is it that is driving your monthly costs up so much? Energy? Labour? Maintenance?

 

[Sourdough]

It's a very strong consideration for me. After my Zim hunt next month a PH friend of mine in South Africa has a couple of ranches he wants to show me. As some of you know I spent 25 days there last year both hunting and seeing what it would be like to live there. I can't help but think "Fortune favors the bold".

 

[Borderer]

With this thread coming back, I'd love to hear from the collective wisdom on the following:
My wife and I are (well) under 40, since 2 months with two <3 year old girls at home. Both my wife and I have quite demanding careers. The grandparents live a little too far, and have a little too many social obligations for us to be leaving them there all the time. We live in the capital of Belgium, a town house with a small garden.

Currently the oldest still goes to the kindergarten, starting introduction school end of this year (hopefully). So in about 2-3 years time, both girls will be going to school. This means school holidays and more importantly the summer holidays, they will be home for 2 months. (next to the 2 week Easter holiday, 2 week Christmas holiday and some other weeks left and right). No way our employers will allow us to take off for 2 months with full pay. But we can both work from a distance quite easily.

Our thinking was to perhaps look at finding a place in Southern Africa, big house, lot's of garden, affordable full time nanny's/housekeeping/cook, good weather and tranquility. Where we can part work from distance, and part be on holiday. It would be the nature, holiday feeling for all, more hours that can be spent together creating nice memories. No kids running wild in the Brussels streets, getting involved with all the wrong people. Weekends or when we are all off, we can go for adventures with them. Taking cheap flights all over, to the sea, mountains, desert, or wherever we like. Or just stay at 'home' and enjoy the animals coming in for a drink in the evening. Some light hunting from time to time as well.

The house would need to be big enough that with cheap flights(i've found flights 5-700 EUR roundtrip to Johannesburg. While taking the TGV to Marseille would be 250 EUR pp as well), our extended families could comfortably come over and spend time all together, as all our respective houses are getting too small to receive everyone all at once. Christmas in Africa?

With Southern Africa being roughly in the same timezone's, it would be seamless to work from a distance from there. The months that we would not be there, we would rent it out via an agency, in order to recoup some of the maintenance costs of the property.

Any thoughts?

I have friends who are planning exactly the same thing as you. They are planning to move to Cape Town but have delayed until after the election.

They live in Paris at the moment but have both worked in Cape Town.

I am in the same position as you and if I wasn’t farming, I would definitely move, although Namibia would be my first choice. Easy flights from Europe and so much more stable / safer.

Who knows what will happen after the SA election though?

 

[VertigoBE]

I have friends who are planning exactly the same thing as you. They are planning to move to Cape Town but have delayed until after the election.

They live in Paris at the moment but have both worked in Cape Town.

I am in the same position as you and if I wasn’t farming, I would definitely move, although Namibia would be my first choice. Easy flights from Europe and so much more stable / safer.

Who knows what will happen after the SA election though?

We are not exactly looking to move lock stock and barrel. But we will need a solution for our daughters for the future summers. As well as give a better environment for my daughters to grow up in and experience. Moving my job would not be possible right now. But an expat mission to get a taste of things is entirely feasible in time.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I have friends who are planning exactly the same thing as you. They are planning to move to Cape Town but have delayed until after the election.

They live in Paris at the moment but have both worked in Cape Town.

I am in the same position as you and if I wasn’t farming, I would definitely move, although Namibia would be my first choice. Easy flights from Europe and so much more stable / safer.

Who knows what will happen after the SA election though?

I think Namibia would be my first choice as well. Either something in the Khomas region or on the coast.

 

[Doubleplay]

I am a Zimbabwean who is going thru major medical in RSA figure $10,000.00 a week. I am not quite sure you should call it medical care.

Lon

Lon,
I seriously hope everything goes well for you.
I don't know what kind of medical care you're having but as someone who's son living in RSA I can assure you the same medical would be five fold or more expensive here in the states.

 

[Tex .416]

I do legal work for ranch owners in Texas. A pattern I see regularly is an affluent urban/suburbanite, doctor, lawyer, sports player, fill in the blank, enjoys hunting and wants to own a ranch to hunt.

The reality of owning and running the business of a ranch is starkly different than going there to hunt as a guest, much less as a paying customer.

Without real training and experience in running the business of a ranch, it quickly turns into a money drain, which then drains the enjoyment and ultimately turns into regret, then a burden to be unloaded at any cost to stop the hemorrhage of cash.

That pattern is common where the new owner knows the laws and customs of the country and speaks the same language. Take that pattern and plop it in the middle of a country where the owner does not know the laws or customs, does not speak the local language, cannot even go on their own and read and fill out a government application, how will that work and feel?

When you die, which is 100% likely, what is the game plan for the ranch/investment and how will your wife function without you there?

I do not want to discourage chasing the dream of owning a ranch, but go into the decision with eyes open and well informed before committing money.

Here is a decent starting intro to owning rural land in Texas with some of the most commonly encountered general rural land ownership issues:

https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/files/2020/01/Owning-Your-Piece-of-Texas.pdf

 

[WAB]

I do legal work for ranch owners in Texas. A pattern I see regularly is an affluent urban/suburbanite, doctor, lawyer, sports player, fill in the blank, enjoys hunting and wants to own a ranch to hunt.

The reality of owning and running the business of a ranch is starkly different than going there to hunt as a guest, much less as a paying customer.

Without real training and experience in running the business of a ranch, it quickly turns into a money drain, which then drains the enjoyment and ultimately turns into regret, then a burden to be unloaded at any cost to stop the hemorrhage of cash.

That pattern is common where the new owner knows the laws and customs of the country and speaks the same language. Take that pattern and plop it in the middle of a country where the owner does not know the laws or customs, does not speak the local language, cannot even go on their own and read and fill out a government application, how will that work and feel?

When you die, which is 100% likely, what is the game plan for the ranch/investment and how will your wife function without you there?

I do not want to discourage chasing the dream of owning a ranch, but go into the decision with eyes open and well informed before committing money.

Here is a decent starting intro to owning rural land in Texas with some of the most commonly encountered general rural land ownership issues:

https://agrilife.org/texasaglaw/files/2020/01/Owning-Your-Piece-of-Texas.pdf

Very sage advice. My brother-in-law and I both retired to farms. We are both engineers, however, I grew up on a farm and he grew up in a city. A visit to his place is like watching an episode of Green Acres. I like to think that our place is well put together and maintained. Know your capabilities, and most of all your willingness to work your ass off. If you don’t like hard labor, do not buy a farm or ranch!

 

[SFRanger7GP]

I joined the Army the day I graduated high school to escape farming and ranch work.

Safe hunting