Ideal rifle weight and stock design for 338 WinMag?

[rookhawk]

Friends, listen to what @MarkB is saying. In any reloading manual, Reloader15 is magic sauce. It almost always uses less powder than alternatives and is almost always the most accurate powder noted. That takes the ouch away. IMR3031 is an outdated powder but it too makes big recoil manageable.

And as everyone has said: 1.) Shoot off sticks, not benches, 2.) Extra low rings, 3.) A pitched stock. 4.) Powders matter.

My son started hunting dangerous game when he was ten. We got him a 375HH and he was 100lbs soaking wet. Easy solutions. Soft recoil pad. Shot off sticks. Extra low rings and a straight tube scope for better cheek weld. Used the right powders, went with a lighter bullet, 260gr. Added a mercury reducer to make the rifle 9.5lbs scoped.

In the end, he was shooting a dangerous game load out of that 375HH that produced 26lbs of recoil, that's about 300 Win Mag sort of recoil. The load was effectively a 9.3x62mm equivalent load which has certainly killed its share of DG over the last century.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Some of the rifles I'm considering and their respective weights.

1. Tikka Laminated Stainless - 7.1lbs
2, Sako Grey Wolf - 7.75lbs.
3. Ruger Alaskan/Guide Gun - 8lbs
4. Sako 90 Bavarian - 8.2lbs
5. Winchester Model 70 Alaskan - 8.5lbs.

So I'll likely be adding another pound of scope+rings to each rifle.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The stock design of my .338WM Browning A Bolt blued/walnut seems to mitigate recoil somewhat. At 8.5lbs. scoped, even my somewhat recoil intolerant hunting buddy and his son have told me the felt recoil from that rifle isn't that bad to them from the BENCH. They're basically .30-06 Browning BLR rifle hunters here, but his son bought a .338 A Bolt a couple of years ago and my buddy borrowed mine for their Newfoundland hunt four years ago.

 

[DLSJR]

Northern Shooter, your question is timely as I just got back from shooting this morning. My son and I are headed to the Selous in 5 weeks and we are taking my 338 Winchester, 2-375 H&H’s and 416 Hoffman, all Model 70’s.

I don’t agree with those who say the 338 kicks worse than a 375 and I say that based on having and using both rifles. The 338 kicks less and is pleasant to shoot, IMO.

I’m on my 2nd barrel on my 338, having shot out the factory barrel. I just weighed all 3 rifles. Here are their empty weights - the 338 weighs 8.6 pounds, while my 375 weighs 8.9 pounds and the 416 weighs 9.2 pounds. Each rifle is a model 70 with custom barrel and fiberglass stock. The 338 & 416 have Brown Precision stocks, while the 375 has a Hi-Tec stock that is nearly identical to a Brown Precision stock. The 338, shooting 225 grain bullets (I mostly shoot TTSX’s or Bear Claws in it) recoils noticeably less than the 375. Likewise, the 375 shooting 300 grain bullets recoils a fair bit less than the 416 does shooting 400 grain bullets. Velocity’s on the 338 are 2,730; while the 375 is 2,400 and the 416 is 2,360.

All 3 chamberings can be loaded hotter/faster but I find them all quite pleasant to shoot at the more moderate velocities annd each is very effective on game at these velocities.

A Final comment about recoil…. My son was just shooting both of our 375’s; his original, wood stocked model 70 and my custom fiberglass stocked gun. His comment after shooting both was “I think I need to get a Brown Precision stock for my 375. Yours kicks less, noticeably so.”
so if you want to reduce felt recoil, maybe all you need is a quality fiberglass stock.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm on the hunt to add a 338WM rifle to the collection but have now been repeatedly told by others how much these 338WM seems to kick, more-so than many medium and big bore alternatives.

I own and can comfortably shoot my 375H&H (9.3lb rifle) but have been told the recoil on the 338 is much sharper, far more noticeable.

Is this because in general rifles chambered for 338 are light for caliber? What would an ideal rifle setup be for 338WM? Which stock design would be preferred for mitigating this recoil?

I'm considering options from Ruger, Winchester, Tikka and Sako which all range between 7lbs and 9lbs.

@Northern Shooter
Why on earth do you want a fire breathing, bitch slapping 338WM when a PROPERLY loaded 35 WHELEN will do the same job out to over 400yrds with less hassle and more class than an old unattractive cartridge like that belted 338WM
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So in terms of recoil is the American/boat paddle stock preferable vs the European/Hog Back style?

@Northern Shooter
Simply put yes.
My mate Peter has a hogsback comb on his 9.3x62. One shot out of that cured me of ever wanting to shoot it again. My 35Whelen with a bog standard Savage 110 stock fits me like a glove and I can shoot full power loads all day without a problem
Bob

 

[Ray B]

In the cartridge range of this question I commonly shoot a 300 Wby w/180 gr, 338 Win Mag w/250 gr, 375 H&H w/250 gr. I do not see a great deal of difference between them. the Wby is lighter but the 338 & 375 are about the same weight. One thing I have noticed is that with any of them, I feel no recoil when I'm shooting at game. I also focus of "follow-through" at the range so my perception of recoil is also limited.

 

[MarkB]

One thing I forgot, may sound silly but make sure whatever gun you get and use has a new generation good recoil mitigating/reducing recoil pad on it and factor this in for correct LOP. They do reduce the felt recoil, slowing down the impact.

MB

 

[Cucuy]

This is one of the original Savage Hog Hunters before they determined that 338 Win Mag was a tad excessive for a pig. I bought it for nilgai/elk but used it this morning because my buddies were using my smaller rifles. Loaded it comes in around 9 lbs. Recoil isn’t bad due to the squishy pad and the stock itself flexes, which soaks up some recoil.

 

[Nyati]

Point of order. Straight stock means monte carlo stock. I hate them, and fine guns never use them. Monte Carlo means a comb parallel to the bore. They are designed for high optics so regardless of sitting at a bench or prone, regardless of clothing, your face can be anywhere on the stock and still be in line with the scope.

Fine stalking rifles and double rifles have a pitched comb by design, the antithesis of a "straight comb". This is designed so that as the gun is aimed skyward, your triceps continue to contract and create a different sight picture relative to the bore. With a perfectly fitted pitched stock, you are on target vertical, horizontal, or in-between.


Monte Carlo "straight comb" stock, actually slightly worse-than monte carlo ala Roy Weatherby with inclining drop, but you get the idea. Parallel comb:

View attachment 545913

Sloping stock or pitched stock:

View attachment 545915

No, I mean something like this

 

[sestoppelman]

Some of the rifles I'm considering and their respective weights.

1. Tikka Laminated Stainless - 7.1lbs
2, Sako Grey Wolf - 7.75lbs.
3. Ruger Alaskan/Guide Gun - 8lbs
4. Sako 90 Bavarian - 8.2lbs
5. Winchester Model 70 Alaskan - 8.5lbs.

So I'll likely be adding another pound of scope+rings to each rifle.

Look very closely at the Winchester Alaskan...I have one and its the easiest shooting .338 I have owned, and the most accurate as well. A superior rifle.
It does have a slight "evil" Monte Carlo, but no cheekpiece, a nice soft pad and a comfortable stock even on the bench, a nice trigger, and no high rings required unless you must have the biggest belled scope on the market.

 

[Flewis]

Some of the rifles I'm considering and their respective weights.

1. Tikka Laminated Stainless - 7.1lbs
2, Sako Grey Wolf - 7.75lbs.
3. Ruger Alaskan/Guide Gun - 8lbs
4. Sako 90 Bavarian - 8.2lbs
5. Winchester Model 70 Alaskan - 8.5lbs.

So I'll likely be adding another pound of scope+rings to each rifle.

I have the t3 and is 6.2lbs bare. The recoil is less than my 7.5lbs 375 or 8.5 375. My little niece does say the 375 has no recoil. We do have another 338 that is lighter and to me about the right weight for a 338. 6lbs.

 

[AZDAVE]

There are multiple ways to mitigate the perceived recoil.

The first and foremost is a proper fitting rifle stock to your build! as recoil goes up it is even more important. Get fitted by a knowledgeable gunsmith of stock fitter. The small extra cost will pay for itself many times over! The standard LOP from the factory are designed to fit the average build (Someone please define what that is because no rep outside the double rifle companies has ever been able to give me a good answer) Years ago at the range when I had a ruger #1 in 45/70 cause me to punch myself in the nose with my thumb for the 3rd time a older gentleman said "Lad the stock doesn't fit you worth a damn" I asked him what he was talking about? He gave me a 10 minute block of instruction on stock fitting for rifles and shotguns that should have been included into every hunter safety course. He also introduced me to a gunsmith/stock builder that fit me to the last 10thousand of a inch it seemed. Over the years I have had several of the double rifle dealers at SCI or DSC also do fit measurements and all come very close to the old guy from my youth. The standard dealers have no idea. Some of the custom bolt gun guys do and the gunsmiths at the gunmakers guild booth also do. So find a good fitter.

As @rookhawk has pointed out the powder used makes a BIG difference.

The hogsback style stock was designed for use with iron sights, and the straighter american style for use with optics. trying to make one work with the other is a compromise that never works out well.

Also every individual perceives recoil differently so asking your buddy that has never shot anything bigger than a 30/30 about a 338class rifle isn't going to end well. With proper technique your can teach most anyone to shot up to 375's well.

Physics will dictate how fast the recoil impulse is and how may ft/lbs of recoil that rifle cal, weight combo will generate. How you perceive it is anybodies guess.

Last a not for the faint of heart take a shot off sticks with a 500-577 class rifle and you will never worry about the recoil of a little 338 after that... This is not a recommended training method for everyone especially a new shooter.