New "classic" .318 Westley Richards?

[Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy]

I've been intrigued by the caliber for a while now as I'm a fan of the classics. Most options to purchase are either new custom builds or older used models. Recently, I came across a third option - converting a M70 to the old British style. Modern performance, classic looks, and the ability to mount a scope without destroying collector value. Yes, I know that there are probably cheaper rebarrel options, but a big part of the appeal to me is the classic look.

Does anyone have any first hand experience with R.J. Renner? Judging from their website, looks like the bulk of their business is taking factory models and prettying up to either classic English or Teutonic styles.

http://www.rjrenner.com/pre-war-77.html

 

[rookhawk]

I don't have references for you on who can do the work you are proposing. I am here to try to talk you out of it though.

I'm a huge fan of vintage .318WRs. I owned a beautiful take-down mauser by Westley Richards in this caliber awhile ago and I regret having to part with that rifle. It is one thing to covet and seek out vintage guns in storied calibers, enduring the pain and suffering of trying to get good regulation, the brass, dies, and bullets required. It is entirely a different matter to spend good money after bad, perhaps as much as buying a vintage gun, to create a modern gun that has no advantages over other calibers and will cost you a fortune to operate while being nearly worthless on the resale.

The .318WR needs special order dies from RCBS or CH4D. Expect to look for months to years and anticipate paying $400 or more for a used set if you ever find them.

Quality Cartridge makes 318WR brass and does a run about every 5 years. Gobble up all you can if they ever make any. Alternatively, you can buy 35 whelen brass and size them down into improperly headstamped 318WR brass in a pinch.

For bullets, the only maker I know of is Woodleigh for both their soft and solid options. As you know, they burned down and stock on hand is very limited. They may never make these bullets again leaving you with no other option of which I'm aware.

Ballistically, the 318WR is great, and its identical to the way easier to make 338/06 wildcat that does the same thing.

 

[318AE]

I have a few 318s and love them. I’ve considered asking RJ Renner to convert a M70, as I too like the look of his conversions (most of those factory M70 stocks feel a bit clunky to me). Please share with me your experiences with the conversion and I‘ll do the same, if I go that route.

I’ve not found a 318 that challenging to feed - I have die sets, brass, bullets and even a few hundred modern WR factory rounds. Of course, the 35 Whelen and 338/06 are more practical, than either the 318, 333 Jeffery or 350 Rigby.

It’s funny to me the practicality brought into these conversations (as if there is much of anything practical about traveling half way across the world (for most of us) to hunt “exotic” game) - where is the fun in that?

 

[Red Leg]

I have a few 318s and love them. I’ve considered asking RJ Renner to convert a M70, as I too like the look of his conversions (most of those factory M70 stocks feel a bit clunky to me). Please share with me your experiences with the conversion and I‘ll do the same, if I go that route.

I’ve not found a 318 that challenging to feed - I have die sets, brass, bullets and even a few hundred modern WR factory rounds. Of course, the 35 Whelen and 338/06 are more practical, than either the 318, 333 Jeffery or 350 Rigby.

It’s funny to me the practicality brought into these conversations (as if there is much of anything practical about traveling half way across the world (for most of us) to hunt “exotic” game) - where is the fun in that?

I found myself nodding at @rookhawk 's usual practical economic argument with respect to the .318 (thank God I have yet to sell either of mine!) Thank you for bringing me back to the reality of this fine madness we all pursue.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m with @rookhawk if you want a 318 and it has to be a 318, get a vintage 318. They are truly special and that’s the only reading I would jump through the hoops to feed one. If you want 318 performance, in a modern rifle get a 338-06 or even a 35 whelen.
I feel the same way about people who convert M70s to 404, as much as I like the 404, it’s going the long way around the barn to get the same place as the 416 Remington.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I found myself nodding at @rookhawk 's usual practical economic argument with respect to the .318 (thank God I have yet to sell either of mine!) Thank you for bringing me back to the reality of this fine madness we all pursue.

Redleg you said it all. This madness as you call it is one affliction I hope a cure for is never found.

 

[Tintin]

Bruce Bertram does 318 pills. @Anthony George on here may have some in stock

 

[AZDAVE]

A number of years ago Roger Renner built me a 12 bore underhammer muzzle loader. The work was first rate! He was very easy to work with and I would recommend his services.

 

[geoff rath]

Bruce Bertram does 318 pills. @Anthony George on here may have some in stock

I have a "suspicion" that @Anthony George may have built one ...

 

[Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy]

Very helpful, appreciate the advice. Good points that maximum practicality is not really the goal here.

I'm aware that sourcing components takes some effort but expect that for an older cartridge that is no longer mainstream. Would want some correctly headstamped brass for when I take it over to Africa, but would be fine practicing with other brass. I believe that I read a Phil Massaro article where he makes his from 30-06 brass.

Perhaps I should go ahead and special order the dies now as a way to "soft commit" to a future purchase? Kind of like buying ammo or components for a caliber I don't own yet...

 

[Tintin]

Practicality lacks soul and is overrated.

Given the likely delay on dies - I reckon not a bad idea to get an order in.

Bertram do brass - that's what I use.

@rdog makes brass from 30.06 cases

 

[Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy]

Did find a Gibbs model from before the wars. I am no expert in collectability or vintage gun value, but a mechanically sound second quality rifle with cosmetic imperfections from a storied gunmaker is probably a sweet spot for somebody like me. Not looking to spend top dollar for a safe queen - would shoot it and hunt with it.

Listing not Found

Buy and sell new and used guns online from anywhere in the world on Guns International, including pistols, shotguns, rifles, handguns, revolvers, ammo and more.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Did find a Gibbs model from before the wars. I am no expert in collectability or vintage gun value, but a mechanically sound second quality rifle with cosmetic imperfections from a storied gunmaker is probably a sweet spot for somebody like me. Not looking to spend top dollar for a safe queen - would shoot it and hunt with it.

Listing not Found

Buy and sell new and used guns online from anywhere in the world on Guns International, including pistols, shotguns, rifles, handguns, revolvers, ammo and more.

www.gunsinternational.com

That rifle would be worth the hassle of feeding a 318 in my opinion. I can’t help on the value, but it’s sure special.

 

[318AE]

Did find a Gibbs model from before the wars. I am no expert in collectability or vintage gun value, but a mechanically sound second quality rifle with cosmetic imperfections from a storied gunmaker is probably a sweet spot for somebody like me. Not looking to spend top dollar for a safe queen - would shoot it and hunt with it.

Listing not Found

Buy and sell new and used guns online from anywhere in the world on Guns International, including pistols, shotguns, rifles, handguns, revolvers, ammo and more.

www.gunsinternational.com

Great looking rifle! I shoot and hunt with all my rifles. I made a trip to Africa with two vintage, open sight rifles and nothing else. Let us know how it shoots! They still “work’.

 

[Tintin]

She's a beauty.

 

[Randy Bo]

I don't have references for you on who can do the work you are proposing. I am here to try to talk you out of it though.

I'm a huge fan of vintage .318WRs. I owned a beautiful take-down mauser by Westley Richards in this caliber awhile ago and I regret having to part with that rifle. It is one thing to covet and seek out vintage guns in storied calibers, enduring the pain and suffering of trying to get good regulation, the brass, dies, and bullets required. It is entirely a different matter to spend good money after bad, perhaps as much as buying a vintage gun, to create a modern gun that has no advantages over other calibers and will cost you a fortune to operate while being nearly worthless on the resale.

The .318WR needs special order dies from RCBS or CH4D. Expect to look for months to years and anticipate paying $400 or more for a used set if you ever find them.

Quality Cartridge makes 318WR brass and does a run about every 5 years. Gobble up all you can if they ever make any. Alternatively, you can buy 35 whelen brass and size them down into improperly headstamped 318WR brass in a pinch.

For bullets, the only maker I know of is Woodleigh for both their soft and solid options. As you know, they burned down and stock on hand is very limited. They may never make these bullets again leaving you with no other option of which I'm aware.

Ballistically, the 318WR is great, and its identical to the way easier to make 338/06 wildcat that does the same thing.

For the sole purpose of hunting…If someone buys anything other than a Winchester, Ruger, CZ or similar in 375 H&H…I think this person could be considered impractical…A $1500 working-gun in a caliber capable of efficiently taking 99.99% of the animals that walk this planet…If everyone suddenly became practical…This great site, with the exception of hunting reports, would suddenly become very boring…

 

[Shako Badhan]

Did find a Gibbs model from before the wars. I am no expert in collectability or vintage gun value, but a mechanically sound second quality rifle with cosmetic imperfections from a storied gunmaker is probably a sweet spot for somebody like me. Not looking to spend top dollar for a safe queen - would shoot it and hunt with it.

Listing not Found

Buy and sell new and used guns online from anywhere in the world on Guns International, including pistols, shotguns, rifles, handguns, revolvers, ammo and more.

www.gunsinternational.com

I had been eyeing that same rifle of late. I think if you were going to jump into the 318 pond that would be a great way to do it.

 

[Marc Ret]

Pragmatism be damned.... We only get one spin on the merry-go-round.

 

[Aaron N]

Don’t let fear and common sense stop you!

Quality cartridge has also brought out their own mono’s that I’m waiting on to check out. And I see the make .330’s in 205, 225, and 250gr weights.

 

[ddog]

I load for the .318 WR. Using guidance from Phil Massero making 318 brass from 30-06 is very easy.

I didn't know about Quality Cartridge bullets and that option is encouraging. I have a stock of Woodleigh .330 bullets so I'm good for now. Hawk Bullets supposedly make 250 grain .330 bullets but I can't get them to return my inquiries. I don't know if Woodleigh will be making .330 bullets again- hope so!