ZIMBABWE TROPHY ELEPHANT HUNTS FOR 2014 AVAILABLE AT GREAT PRICES

[Bsums]

Bob,

There is not a legal market as we think of a market to sell tusks. Governments ask for exemptions, get it and sell ivory occasionally. If I remember correct, Japan and/or China have been the last couple of buyers. I don't think there has been a sell in a few years. Consequently the ivory stacks up in African government warehouses. I presume a lot of that ivory goes out the back door to the black market.

You shoot an elephant and have the ivory. You can't sell the ivory in Africa or any place legally. There is no legal market. If I remember correct, you have 40kg of ivory. If the market rate is $800/kg (not sure what it is) then it is worth $32,000 on the black market. It, however has no value to you other than as a trophy because it can't be sold.

This is not an area I have any expertise in so don't just go off of what I say. This is my understanding of the situation. If a more knowledgeable person disagrees, I gladly stand corrected. I originally commented on this thread to help clarify Normal's question/statements.

I am happy to hear if someone else want to clarify my comments.

Hope you can get your ivory back someday. Otherwise I hope you have a trusted friend that will let you visit it occasionally!

All the best.

We we all can just buy shacks in Canada to visit our ivory on the weekends.

 

[Normal Wells]

Norman I am a livestock farmer as well, dairy. But from the USA. I am assuming your are in RSA, please correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the animal rights people, we are already dealing with those issues in a big way over here.

My wife was on the local school board and they had to throw away a lot of meat because some of it came fro ma slaughter plant that was caught on video using a fork lift to move a downed cow while it was still alive.. Now I am not condoning that practice by any means... But to throw away perfectly good meat simply because it came from the same processing plant (or butchery to you guys in Africa) where that occurred seemed like a down right sin!

I did hunt an elephant in Zimbabwe and have tacked a few posts in the thread that had advertised the deal I took. I do plan to work on a full report and in fact you have me thinking of reporting on more of the total experience than just the hunt. The human experience went way past the actual hunting part. Very interesting to see the local politics play out when a village shows up to filet an elephant! From what I witnessed, you butcher an elephant much the same way as you eat one... One piece at a time!

The local animal rights in Zimbabwe pretty much seem to be that the animals have the right to be eaten and beaten. Pretty tough being the outside donkeys, first the right one gets whips, then the left.... The two in the middle (on the 4 cylinder donkey darts anyway, which seemed to be most common) seem to get off easy... I saw several that had patches worn off their rumps from the whip. Our idiotic soccer mom's and face book fanatics in this country have no idea what they are raving about! People should go hungry once in a while and they might take a different view!

Thanks for that. I am from Canada. Yes, we have our share of animal rights types too. I think that livestock people, hunters, trappers have to stick together and cover each others' backs. Circuses, bullfighters and pet owners too. Did I miss anyone? Ah, seal hunters. It disappoints me when I hear a hunter say something along the lines of 'we kill them with one shot. You should see how those factory farmers treat animals.' It just deflects on to someone else when we should all be supporting each other.

I have long been intrigued by the conservation practices in Africa which appear to favor paid hunting as a way to put a value on wildlife for the locals who must put up with what is problem wildlife if too numerous. ie where no hunting of ertain species at all is allowed such as in Kenya poachers handle the problem wildlife and much else besides. Where it is allowed, locals benefit from outside hunters paying so allow them to manage numbers. Creating a win win for most everyone. Animals populations increase in the latter case as far as I can ascertain.

I know the law doesn't allow for import of ivory art into western countries. But maybe this should be changed. I feel for the Africans who could use the revenues. Western animal rights types are holding these people down. They think animals are more important than people.

 

[ActionBob]

We we all can just buy shacks in Canada to visit our ivory on the weekends.

Beings I live in Minnesota, which might just be as Canadian as you can get but be in the US, aye. I think I would prefer a shack in a warmer place

 

[Normal Wells]

The last thing the ivory should be used for is the Asian/Chinese remedies. This is what fuels the black market and results in the illegal poaching (slaughtering) of Elephants. What those in search of ivory for remedies need is education not ivory. Some ivory is used for art, etc but is older ivory that is not affected by the current laws. Ivory is highly valued due to its beauty and than those who think it contains magical properties. The supply is much lower then the demand and the means to acquire it illegally is a very real issue. Education is key for those driving the illegal market as you have to address the issue at the source, but until their is no illegal demand; better monitoring of the animals, more anti-poaching teams, resources into investigating buyers/sellers, resources for locating poachers, stiffer penalties for poachers and buys etc to prevent it as much as possible. The ability to actually sell ivory could help lessen the illegal poaching as their would be legal means of obtaining sought after items. Their is a small ivory market but it is very limited as old ivory can be sold, 1989 as someone stated above but its not large enough to support the demand.

I don't want to start a fuss but I must respectfully disagree. As the owners of the resource, the local communities in Africa and private land owners I believe should be able to sell animals or parts thereof to the highest bidder. This would be western hunters for the animal but could be Asian and other buyers for some specific parts like ivory. Just because the Asians use it for ineffective remedies wouldn't matter to me. The trade in remedies to the Asian market and of ivory art should be made legal and the local Africans will be the best managers of poaching when they have a vested interest in preventing it. Similarly Canadian Indians should be able to trade in bear gall bladders, claw back scratchers, or whatever. The war against poaching and the animal products trade is about as effective as the war against drugs in western countries. Legalising it would cut out some unscrupulous middlemen and potential violence. We use our natural resources and so should people in 3rd world countries be able to.

 

[enysse]

Our idiotic soccer mom's and face book fanatics in this country have no idea what they are raving about! People should go hungry once in a while and they might take a different view!

That would fix a lot of problems here in the USA. Stop enabling people and let them survive on there own.

There is not a legal market as we think of a market to sell tusks. Governments ask for exemptions, get it and sell ivory occasionally. If I remember correct, Japan and/or China have been the last couple of buyers. I don't think there has been a sell in a few years. Consequently the ivory stacks up in African government warehouses. I presume a lot of that ivory goes out the back door to the black market.

I agree with you Wheels, in Africa anything can happen. Our brilliant president a while back made news headlines for destroying ivory....he was applauded

 

[Bsums]

I don't want to start a fuss but I must respectfully disagree. As the owners of the resource, the local communities in Africa and private land owners I believe should be able to sell animals or parts thereof to the highest bidder. This would be western hunters for the animal but could be Asian and other buyers for some specific parts like ivory. Just because the Asians use it for ineffective remedies wouldn't matter to me. The trade in remedies to the Asian market and of ivory art should be made legal and the local Africans will be the best managers of poaching when they have a vested interest in preventing it. Similarly Canadian Indians should be able to trade in bear gall bladders, claw back scratchers, or whatever. The war against poaching and the animal products trade is about as effective as the war against drugs in western countries. Legalising it would cut out some unscrupulous middlemen and potential violence. We use our natural resources and so should people in 3rd world countries be able to.

The thing is these are natural resources, once they are gone they are gone permanently. The market could be opened up legally but you have to prevent the massacre of legal elephants. It won't stop the poachers as the demand will be the same and the ability to poach them the same due to the inability to acquire enough legal elephants to satisfy their greed. It could possibly put a small dent in the issue but not enough to stop it completely. They would only be willing to switch to legal methods if it provided the same $$$ or more and due to their being such a lack of Elephants and they would be properly managed/regulated so its not feasible to believe they would make a lot less money in the sake of preserving the species. Unless buyers would be willing to pay much more for legal ivory and not decide its not worth the price as the legal ivory quantities would be much more limited. But at least some of the profit could be used for the protection of Elephants. They are not an abundant animal and need to be tightly watched and protected. I do see it as a shame that the some govts are not allowing exportation as its a waste of highly valuable resources. We use our natural resources that are abundant and not at risk of disappearing for good. Their are many species here in the us and they have a legal market because there is the population of animals to support it, Elephants do not have the numbers. The people in 3rd world countries can use their natural resources; farm the land, hunt animals, etc just not send them into extinction, we don't hunt our animals to extinction and we should expect the same from them. Sorry for any grammar issues etc as my computer is lagging and rewriting is a hassle right now.

 

[CAustin]

It's the Asia consumer driving the poaching! Until the UN or their own governments put a big fine and jail time on ivory and rhino horn possession the animals will continue to fall in numbers. But you can bet it is the hunter that will receive the blame.

 

[Bsums]

I believe it should be a minimum of 20 years in prison for poaching and minimum of a 250,000$ fine. If they don't surrender/freeze immediately, shoot them. Just like if someone breaks into my home to steal, murder etc they will be shot, it should be the same for someone trying to steal ivory and illegally slaughter Elephants. The risk needs to outweigh the benefits. Plus put high rewards on turning in poachers or information that leads to their arrest. Say 20,000 RA per poacher turned.

 

[CAustin]

I would like to see something along such lines.....

I believe it should be a minimum of 20 years in prison for poaching and minimum of a 250,000$ fine. If they don't surrender/freeze immediately, shoot them. Just like if someone breaks into my home to steal, murder etc they will be shot, it should be the same for someone trying to steal ivory and illegally slaughter Elephants. The risk needs to outweigh the benefits. Plus put high rewards on turning in poachers or information that leads to their arrest. Say 20,000 RA per poacher turned.