Zimbabwe elephant cull

[Philip Glass]

CITIES export quota is fixed for the year, so there is little desire to use that number for female animals in general.

Their quota is 1000 elephant. They are not exporting that many. There are not 1000 elephant total exported from Africa. It is the permits from Parks that are needing to be increased.

 

[spike.t]

I am currently reading Mahohboh, by Ron Thomson. It gives a very vivid picture of culling and the conservation of the sepsis and maintaining the eco system. If you want to see a eco system destroyed by an overpopulation of elephants just go look a Madikwe Park in South Africa.

The requirements of a ranger that is responsible for culling herds is a much different skill set than a PH or sport hunter.

The first part of the equation is that the countries affected by the over population will have to just conduct the cull for the good of the entire eco system and then take the flak from the rest of the world that will jump on the narrow minded myopic view of the anti's. Not sure if any of the countries affected have leadership with a big enough brass pair to do what's needed.

Have all his books...and yup all very good....

 

[cajunchefray]

Have all his books...and yup all very good....

I have to get Mr. Thomson’s book read it and then give it to my doctor.
He does believe hunting is good for physical and mental fitness.
However he believes the crap the antis spew about elephants. We discussed the over population, habitat destruction and somewhat the role of sport hunting contributing to conservation.and supporting the local community.
We had the discussion when I was planning my first safari, postponed for health reasons.
He is willing to learn more and change his opinion with facts on the ground. He has a lot of followers on social media ( he travels worldwide and posts great photos).
He can be a force multiplier to change some people’s perception.

 

[spike.t]

I have to get Mr. Thomson’s book read it and then give it to my doctor.
He does believe hunting is good for physical and mental fitness.
However he believes the crap the antis spew about elephants. We discussed the over population, habitat destruction and somewhat the role of sport hunting contributing to conservation.and supporting the local community.
We had the discussion when I was planning my first safari, postponed for health reasons.
He is willing to learn more and change his opinion with facts on the ground. He has a lot of followers on social media ( he travels worldwide and posts great photos).
He can be a force multiplier to change some people’s perception.

Seems rons website is not there ...but this also provides some information for your doc..

Ron Thomson, Author at True Green Alliance

www.mahohboh.org

 

[towserthemouser]

I have to get Mr. Thomson’s book read it and then give it to my doctor.
He does believe hunting is good for physical and mental fitness.
However he believes the crap the antis spew about elephants. We discussed the over population, habitat destruction and somewhat the role of sport hunting contributing to conservation.and supporting the local community.
We had the discussion when I was planning my first safari, postponed for health reasons.
He is willing to learn more and change his opinion with facts on the ground. He has a lot of followers on social media ( he travels worldwide and posts great photos).
He can be a force multiplier to change some people’s perception.

@cajunchefray

I suggest you challenge your doctor (who presumably follows evidence.....) to query ChatGPT or Grok or his favorite AI about this question.

He should ask the AI to reference official government statistics about elephant and general wildlife populations, and to compare those statistics over time from, oh, say 1977 (when Kenya outlawed hunting) to the most currently available numbers. Ask him to compare elephant and general wildlife population numbers for all those African countries that permit hunting versus all those that have outlawed hunting..... perhaps even generate a chart and suggest some AI-driven conclusions.

I believe he will find the results intriguing. I suppose one could argue that there are different ways to interpret what the numbers show, but clearly the Kenyan strategy is not working, for whatever reason. Perhaps he can offer a logical reason, or perhaps he will come to understand that hunting adds a value proposition and has in fact resulted in greater elephant populations in those areas that permit it.

Any doctor worth his salt will have long since learned that evidence sometimes leads to conclusions that at first seem counter-intuitive, so maybe he will learn something useful in this case.

 

[cajunchefray]

@cajunchefray

I suggest you challenge your doctor (who presumably follows evidence.....) to query ChatGPT or Grok or his favorite AI about this question.

He should ask the AI to reference official government statistics about elephant and general wildlife populations, and to compare those statistics over time from, oh, say 1977 (when Kenya outlawed hunting) to the most currently available numbers. Ask him to compare elephant and general wildlife population numbers for all those African countries that permit hunting versus all those that have outlawed hunting..... perhaps even generate a chart and suggest some AI-driven conclusions.

I believe he will find the results intriguing. I suppose one could argue that there are different ways to interpret what the numbers show, but clearly the Kenyan strategy is not working, for whatever reason. Perhaps he can offer a logical reason, or perhaps he will come to understand that hunting adds a value proposition and has in fact resulted in greater elephant populations in those areas that permit it.

Any doctor worth his salt will have long since learned that evidence sometimes leads to conclusions that at first seem counter-intuitive, so maybe he will learn something useful in this case.

Thank you very much.
The AI approach is something I had not considered but could be a good source of real data.

The Kenya data, we briefly discussed, and is a great example, especially when the population numbers of elephants have plummeted, with poaching and the black market for ivory for Asians driving the poachers and illegal trade.

Botswana, we have discussed and he acknowledged that there is habitat destruction, the follow on effects on other species for food sources, and that elephant human problems are real.

Providing real numbers of poached elephants, and the limited resources of game departments can really bring focus.

My doctor is a “reasonable man”
( like the legal profession describes), and facts can change his viewpoint.

Great suggestion@towserthemouser Thank you.
Charles

 

[mrpoindexter]

Cow permits should be unlimited in most areas and that would help.

Maybe they should consider the same with tuskless to get that gene back to the very minor level it was in a lot of areas that seem to have a lot more tuskless now.

 

[Russ16]

Agree on tuskless and cow permits.

Are tuskless hides exportable to the US?

 

[deewayne2003]

Agree on tuskless and cow permits.

Are tuskless hides exportable to the US?

In July 2024 - mine was not exportable

 

[Russ16]

In July 2024 - mine was not exportable

That’s what I expected to hear. Changing I think would make those hints even more attractive to people.

 

[Odinsraven]

Elephant culling is a job for seasoned professionals - I have worked on culling plains game with a couple of professionals - I thought of myself a "fairly competent" at the time, having been putting a 100 plus a season in Africa in the freezer and similar back home! - NO I WAS NOT even close to competent - after a while I just watched the professionals do what they do best !

 

[bimbo]

Se fossero stati disperati avrebbero rilasciato circa 1750 permessi, per portare la popolazione più vicina alla capacità di carico...

Mi sembra che si tratti più di una politica volta a compiacere la gente (carne gratis) che di una gestione della fauna selvatica basata sulla scienza.

50 permessi non saranno nemmeno l'inizio della risoluzione dei

That is not how a cull works. It is not politically correct or talked about but here is how it goes. They take a helicopter and take out entire herds no matter age. This is the best way to do it and had been proven to work.
I agree with you that more hunting permits for elephant should be issued but shooting bulls does nothing to the population. Cow permits should be unlimited in most areas and that would help.

Se fossero stati disperati avrebbero rilasciato circa 1750 permessi, per portare la popolazione più vicino alla capacità di carico...

Mi sembra che si tratti più di una politica volta a compiacere la gente (carne gratis) che di una gestione della fauna selvatica basata sulla scienza.

50 permessi non saranno nemmeno sufficienti ad affrontare i problemi ecologici.

 

[bimbo]

Stessa unica soluzione logica per il Parco Nazionale Kruger. Nessun abbattimento degli elefanti, vedremo presto un deserto in arrivo e sarà necessario

True culling is done in family groups, with entire herds culled in a matter of a minute or two. Leaving some results in a stressed animal and the potential to create problem elephants. Not the best for a bow hunt. I agree, more permits would be a good solution in some areas.

 

[bimbo]

I agree in full.Get a watch to Kruger National Park situation...and everybody think in one only way and word...CULLING