Zimbabwe Big Game Safari Rates Question

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

RSA gun permit in Zim is worthless. For foreigners a Zimbabwe temp import permit required. Yes you can do it, as I stated Renting a vehicle in RSA, while traveling with Firearm and then entering and traveling Zim is not something that I would recommend and you have elections coming up.

To each his own, good luck on your June hunt.

Lon

 

[Doubleplay]

Thanks.

RSA gun permit in Zim is worthless. For foreigners a Zimbabwe temp import permit required. Yes you can do it, as I stated Renting a vehicle in RSA, while traveling with Firearm and then entering and traveling Zim is not something that I would recommend and you have elections coming up.

To each his own, good luck on your June hunt.

Lon

Thanks Lon,
Of course SA permit is worthless in Zim but you need it to bring guns back to SA.
The whole process is no different than transiting to Zim trough SA via Tambo.
I agree it's not something to do if you are someone new to traveling in Africa or don't have any experience driving there.

 

[pilar]

RSA gun permit in Zim is worthless. For foreigners a Zimbabwe temp import permit required. Yes you can do it, as I stated Renting a vehicle in RSA, while traveling with Firearm and then entering and traveling Zim is not something that I would recommend and you have elections coming up.

To each his own, good luck on your June hunt.

Lon

Amen amigo!
I would find it unfathomable to cross a frontier with a firearm, how are the jails in Zimbabwe?
I know people who have earned a trip to jail in Mexico and Canada, just for having 1 serial number wrong. 2 weeks in jail and then deportation

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Now we are on the same page your SAA license would serve the same purpose as the 4457 for Americans. My Zim license works the same way going south.

Beware of the potholes, and be polite to the police you will travel well.

Lon

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Now we are on the same page your SAA license would serve the same purpose as the 4457 for Americans. My Zim license works the same way going south.

Beware of the potholes, and be polite to the police you will travel well.

Lon

Amen amigo!
I would find it unfathomable to cross a frontier with a firearm, how are the jails in Zimbabwe?
I know people who have earned a trip to jail in Mexico and Canada, just for having 1 serial number wrong. 2 weeks in jail and then deportation

I am sure they very much welcomed the deportation. I spent a couple hours with the CIO because airport Firearms had not stamped a clients license they had stamped two of their copies, but not the clients. You do not want to go thru that.

 

[Doubleplay]

Amen amigo!
I would find it unfathomable to cross a frontier with a firearm, how are the jails in Zimbabwe?
I know people who have earned a trip to jail in Mexico and Canada, just for having 1 serial number wrong. 2 weeks in jail and then deportation

Frontier? It's just a border like any other.
Have you ever crossed a border anywhere with guns?
I did more than a dozen times in various countries.
You can't even enter Canada, Mexico or any other country with serial numbers written wrong to start with....

 

[pilar]

Frontier? It's just a border like any other.
Have you ever crossed a border anywhere with guns?
I did more than a dozen times in various countries.
You can't even enter Canada, Mexico or any other country with serial numbers written wrong to start with....

Yes Mexico for 25 hunting seasons and seeing is believing, we always check every I and dot all the T’s , then do it 3 more times before crossing the frontier/ border
imo its100% different then flying to a country,
+ Mexico has a border buffer zone, @ 25 miles in they have a federal police check point that requires more paperwork

 

[Hank2211]

Frontier? It's just a border like any other.
Have you ever crossed a border anywhere with guns?
I did more than a dozen times in various countries.
You can't even enter Canada, Mexico or any other country with serial numbers written wrong to start with....

Has anyone tried to enter the US with a firearm, let alone one with the serial number wrong?

In Calgary, we pre-clear US customs at the airport here, and even with the proper ATF forms pre-approved, it can take up to an hour (though usually half that long) for US CBP to let you go with the rifle. If a serial number is wrong, you can generally go anywhere - except the US. If you didn’t pre-clear in a foreign country and were to show up in the US with a firearm and without a valid permit from ATF as a result of a wrong serial number, you would be a non-resident alien unlawfully in possession of a firearm, and that’s a bad situation.

I should say though, that if you arrive in Canada with a properly declared “regular” rifle (not an AR-15 type), and you have a wrong serial number, they will fix that up at customs. It will take some time, but you aren’t going to jail.

As for day rates in Zimbabwe, outfitters generally are restricted to the government allocated quota for animals in their concessions, particularly dangerous game (a Zim operator could tell us if that applies to all game and to campfire areas as well). So, for example, an outfitter could have 2 lions on quota (as one concession I know does). Each of those hunts requires a certain number of days to be booked, and the higher daily rate for dangerous game be paid. If you shoot the dangerous game, or the one animal you want, early in the hunt, you can’t expect to have the hunt revert to a lower plains game daily rate for the balance, or to get a refund of the daily rates if you choose to leave early.

The daily rates are a huge part of how the outfitters make their money, given that they don’t own the animals (as they generally do in RSA) and are paying a substantial part of the trophy fee to the government.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Has anyone tried to enter the US with a firearm, let alone one with the serial number wrong?

In Calgary, we pre-clear US customs at the airport here, and even with the proper ATF forms pre-approved, it can take up to an hour (though usually half that long) for US CBP to let you go with the rifle. If a serial number is wrong, you can generally go anywhere - except the US. If you didn’t pre-clear in a foreign country and were to show up in the US with a firearm and without a valid permit from ATF as a result of a wrong serial number, you would be a non-resident alien unlawfully in possession of a firearm, and that’s a bad situation.

I should say though, that if you arrive in Canada with a properly declared “regular” rifle (not an AR-15 type), and you have a wrong serial number, they will fix that up at customs. It will take some time, but you aren’t going to jail.

As for day rates in Zimbabwe, outfitters generally are restricted to the government allocated quota for animals in their concessions, particularly dangerous game (a Zim operator could tell us if that applies to all game and to campfire areas as well). So, for example, an outfitter could have 2 lions on quota (as one concession I know does). Each of those hunts requires a certain number of days to be booked, and the higher daily rate for dangerous game be paid. If you shoot the dangerous game, or the one animal you want, early in the hunt, you can’t expect to have the hunt revert to a lower plains game daily rate for the balance, or to get a refund of the daily rates if you choose to leave early.

The daily rates are a huge part of how the outfitters make their money, given that they don’t own the animals (as they generally do in RSA) and are paying a substantial part of the trophy fee to the government.

We mostly hunt campfire areas we have a big quota of certain animals such as elephant, hippo, crocodiles 2 leopard plentyHyenas + 1 Lion. Not so many buffalo and not a big quota of plains game.

We charge a balanced fee trophy and daily, we can usually add any animal to a hunt, but we would be foolish to add an elephant to a 7 day buffalo hunt, that would become a separate hunt with all of the extra costs.

Last week we got a call from a Zim PH, he had a RSA PH who brought a foreign hunter to Zim they were after a big croc. He asked if it could be taken in one day we told him we were confident in two. The RSA ph wanted to know if were going to charge for the second day, we told him no we would be charging for seven days + 7 days observer fee x 2.

 

[cmk]

On a side note (and not specifically for Zim), what is the reason for the very different daily rates between hunting PG and DG? It seems like daily rates, where I see them listed are 3-4 times higher for DG hunts. Some types of extra costs seem to be itemized separately (park ranger fees, pre-baiting etc). So that is maybe not part of the underlying reasoning?

Things I can think of:

1. Some types of hunt may require more staff/cars/traveling etc?
2. Hazard-pay to the staff involved, due to the higher risks?
3. Balancing day fees with trophy fees in 'swings and roundabouts' way (i.e. keeping the trophy fees lower than actual cost)?
4. Probability of success is low, so actual costs needs to be covered (i.e. PG hunt day-rates are 'subsidized' by PG trophy fees)
5. "Because we can" (quotas are low, and slots will be filled anyway)?
6. Some/all of the above?
7. Something else?

I haven't (yet?) been on a DG hunt, and I'm trying to educate myself a little. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Thanks in advance!

 

[375Fox]

On a side note (and not specifically for Zim), what is the reason for the very different daily rates between hunting PG and DG? It seems like daily rates, where I see them listed are 3-4 times higher for DG hunts. Some types of extra costs seem to be itemized separately (park ranger fees, pre-baiting etc). So that is maybe not part of the underlying reasoning?

Things I can think of:

1. Some types of hunt may require more staff/cars/traveling etc?
2. Hazard-pay to the staff involved, due to the higher risks?
3. Balancing day fees with trophy fees in 'swings and roundabouts' way (i.e. keeping the trophy fees lower than actual cost)?
4. Probability of success is low, so actual costs needs to be covered (i.e. PG hunt day-rates are 'subsidized' by PG trophy fees)
5. "Because we can" (quotas are low, and slots will be filled anyway)?
6. Some/all of the above?
7. Something else?

I haven't (yet?) been on a DG hunt, and I'm trying to educate myself a little. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Thanks in advance!

Outfitters need to make profit on top of the bid for their areas or quota they reserved. Hunters are willing to pay more for certain animals. Hunts costs are partly in trophy fees and partly in daily rates to divide the risk between outfitter and hunter like any other hunt. Plains game hunts don’t make concession areas economical, but they do fill some open spaces to make a little money and keep PHs busy. The high value hunts make concession areas economical to keep other use activities out. Paying more for one allows the other to exist as an opportunity for others.

 

[Zim Fan]

If you have the opportunity to take your Parents and Wife and do a Buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe go and go to the Conservancy. You will have a great chance to see the Big 5, stay in a very comfortable Camp and everyone will have a great time. The area is over 800,000 Acres. If you head to some of the areas in the North then it becomes more rustic and not recommended for non-hunters.

Ladies can stay in Camp and you and your Dad can go hunting in the morning and come back at Lunch. Then head out and do some plains game hunting with the Ladies in tow. If you do a 2 x 2 then you have two cars and the Ladies can do as they wish. Couple the trip with a stop on the way home in the Falls and everyone is happy.

 

[Rare Breed]

On a side note (and not specifically for Zim), what is the reason for the very different daily rates between hunting PG and DG? It seems like daily rates, where I see them listed are 3-4 times higher for DG hunts. Some types of extra costs seem to be itemized separately (park ranger fees, pre-baiting etc). So that is maybe not part of the underlying reasoning?

Things I can think of:

1. Some types of hunt may require more staff/cars/traveling etc?
2. Hazard-pay to the staff involved, due to the higher risks?
3. Balancing day fees with trophy fees in 'swings and roundabouts' way (i.e. keeping the trophy fees lower than actual cost)?
4. Probability of success is low, so actual costs needs to be covered (i.e. PG hunt day-rates are 'subsidized' by PG trophy fees)
5. "Because we can" (quotas are low, and slots will be filled anyway)?
6. Some/all of the above?
7. Something else?

I haven't (yet?) been on a DG hunt, and I'm trying to educate myself a little. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Thanks in advance!

I would also say DG animals carry risk unlike PG animals and an outfitter should be compensated for that. Just my opinion

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

On a side note (and not specifically for Zim), what is the reason for the very different daily rates between hunting PG and DG? It seems like daily rates, where I see them listed are 3-4 times higher for DG hunts. Some types of extra costs seem to be itemized separately (park ranger fees, pre-baiting etc). So that is maybe not part of the underlying reasoning?

Things I can think of:

1. Some types of hunt may require more staff/cars/traveling etc?
2. Hazard-pay to the staff involved, due to the higher risks?
3. Balancing day fees with trophy fees in 'swings and roundabouts' way (i.e. keeping the trophy fees lower than actual cost)?
4. Probability of success is low, so actual costs needs to be covered (i.e. PG hunt day-rates are 'subsidized' by PG trophy fees)
5. "Because we can" (quotas are low, and slots will be filled anyway)?
6. Some/all of the above?
7. Something else?

I haven't (yet?) been on a DG hunt, and I'm trying to educate myself a little. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

Thanks in advance!

I will try to give a brief answer for each item

1. Two hunters, one PH and staff max for one vehicle. May require second vehicle for baiting.

2. No increased hazarrd pay

3. I do not know of anyone who sells trophy fees below cost.

4. A operator who has a low success rate will not stay in business long.

5., 6, 7, The costs of doing a dangerous game hunt is usually higher due the extra work involved.

We try to maintain a 20% profit margin some safari operators charge a much higher rate and their our certain “areas that command higher prices. Safari hunting is a business like any other charge to much for your product and your competition will end up with the business charge to little and you go broke.

Look how prices dropped with some operators during covid, others remained constant dropped prices down to a sustainable level then boosted back to where they were before covid.

I am referring to Zim and like countries. Not high fenced countries.

Lon

 

[Hank2211]

I will try to give a brief answer for each item

1. Two hunters, one PH and staff max for one vehicle. May require second vehicle for baiting.

2. No increased hazarrd pay

3. I do not know of anyone who sells trophy fees below cost.

4. A operator who has a low success rate will not stay in business long.

5., 6, 7, The costs of doing a dangerous game hunt is usually higher due the extra work involved.

We try to maintain a 20% profit margin some safari operators charge a much higher rate and their our certain “areas that command higher prices. Safari hunting is a business like any other charge to much for your product and your competition will end up with the business charge to little and you go broke.

Look how prices dropped with some operators during covid, others remained constant dropped prices down to a sustainable level then boosted back to where they were before covid.

I am referring to Zim and like countries. Not high fenced countries.

Lon

I fear we're hijaking this thread . . . but I agree with Lon. I would also add that while Lon infers it, any dangerous game baited hunt requires an enormous amount of work by the PH and his (or her!) team and resources, far more than does a plains game hunt.

There is also the supply and demand factor. An outfitter is in business, and is as entitled as any other business to take advantage of those factors, as the market will allow.

Personally, having been on a number of these hunts, I don't think the many outfitters who go above and beyond to deliver a quality product and the guys on the ground are as well compensated as they should be.

 

[Doubleplay]

If you have the opportunity to take your Parents and Wife and do a Buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe go and go to the Conservancy. You will have a great chance to see the Big 5, stay in a very comfortable Camp and everyone will have a great time. The area is over 800,000 Acres. If you head to some of the areas in the North then it becomes more rustic and not recommended for non-hunters.

Ladies can stay in Camp and you and your Dad can go hunting in the morning and come back at Lunch. Then head out and do some plains game hunting with the Ladies in tow. If you do a 2 x 2 then you have two cars and the Ladies can do as they wish. Couple the trip with a stop on the way home in the Falls and everyone is happy.

Agreed.
Bubye Valley Conservancy is an awesome place and much different than campfire areas.
Which camp you hunted out of?

 

[375Fox]

If the OP is still reading his thread, he should consider the Caprivi for a family safari. Much less stressful hunt than many areas in Zimbabwe.

 

[Zim Fan]

Agreed.
Bubye Valley Conservancy is an awesome place and much different than campfire areas.
Which camp you hunted out of?

Nengo and Samanyanga are the two, we have visited all the other camps looking them over with the exception of the camp in Malangani. This year we will spend time in Samanyanga and Malangani, and at least an afternoon out into the local community.

My Wife loved Nengo as she could sit and watch the wildlife come down to the water, especially the elephant. As you know everyone seems to have a favorite camp all have their attractions.

 

[Doubleplay]

Nengo and Samanyanga are the two, we have visited all the other camps looking them over with the exception of the camp in Malangani. This year we will spend time in Samanyanga and Malangani, and at least an afternoon out into the local community.

My Wife loved Nengo as she could sit and watch the wildlife come down to the water, especially the elephant. As you know everyone seems to have a favorite camp all have their attractions.

Very true.
Me and my wife will be in the Chamalaya this year.. and possibly visit some others..

 

[Zim Fan]

We are in the Conservancy early to mid June. Another lovely camp. Took a big Hyena in Chamalaya.