Your top 3 double rifle brands

[Fred Gunner]

the brands which l have tried :

That's what I've been searching for? Where can I test fire several different Double rifles in different calibers to find what I like?

 

[norfolk shooter]

Yeah, I know what you mean about keeping it real.
I fix commercial burners and boilers for a living, so plumber of a different sort.
My firearms need to get the job done as well.

I've heard good things about Sabbati.
Does Sabbati share technology with Zoli or am I way off?
Wasn't sure if there was a parent company like Beretta who share technology with Benelli...etc.

Snap that's what I do but domestic. Working for British Gas it's good but crap at times. Tell me a job that isn't? Well apart from chief oil/lotion applicator to the Brazilian ladies volleyball team

 

[BeeMaa]

I keep threatening my wife and daughter that I'm going to haul their horses off to the auction and put the money towards something useful... Like a nice double in 450/400.…

Good luck with that one.
Pissing off the missus and adding a firearm is bad math.
Could lead to your subtraction.

Where can I test fire several different Double rifles in different calibers to find what I like?

I'm looking for the same thing.
Thinking I'm gonna have to buy a friend to do so.

Well apart from chief oil/lotion applicator to the Brazilian ladies volleyball team

Cheers on the job and yeah it sucks at times.
But show me the most beautiful girl in the world and I'll show you a guy sick of her crap.

 

[4 Bore]

That's what I've been searching for? Where can I test fire several different Double rifles in different calibers to find what I like?

Well , Mr. Gunner , l am a member of a local shooting club . Our country used to be a British Colony less than 70 years ago. And a LOT of Vintage Double rifles and Mauser action Rifles are still used by many of our club members. Some were family heirlooms , passed down from Father to Son. Others were sold by the families of the original owners after they passed away. These guns just like sitting around in some " used " section of our local gun stores until somebody picks them up. Many of the members in our local shooting club are hunters who use British Fire Arms. Since, we are a pretty tightly knit community in the club and all ( having known each other for years and going deer hunting together ) , the other guys let you shoot a few rounds from their piece now and them , if you let them shoot yours .
And then , of course you have a few of those rich elder gentlemen who actually have Brand new doubles from England made for them.
No joke , there are 5 gun stores in our city ( including one INSIDE the shooting club ) .3 of them currently have at least ONE second hand double rifle up for sale , in the " used " section . We also have more than a few Holland and Holland Shotguns and Westley Richards shotguns in some of those stores.
Currently , one of the stores has had this really beautiful Holland and Holland Royal .500/450 Cordite Double Rifle lying around in the used gun section for about 8 months. The store owner told me than no one wants to buy it because .500/450 Cordite ammunition isn't made anymore. Some day , if l can find a good supply of brass cases and reloading components , maybe l will sell my Rigby and Get that Holland and Holland.

 

[Fred Gunner]

Our country used to be a British Colony less than 70 years ago.

Your from Canada? I'm interested in modern Doubles to hunt with not collectibles. But If this is an invitation I'm from the Adirondacks just and hours drive from the Canadian border? Where is your Gun Club?

 

[4 Bore]

Your from Canada? I'm interested in modern Doubles to hunt with not collectibles. But If this is an invitation I'm from the Adirondacks just and hours drive from the Canadian border? Where is your Gun Club?

No , sir. I'm from Bangladesh. I am a member of Dhaka Rifle Club ( Dhaka is the capital of Bangladesh ). If you ever come , let me know.

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm from the Adirondacks just and hours drive from the Canadian border.

I'm from central NY, near Utica and have family in Crown Point on Lake Champlain.
Done a fair bit of hunting in both central NY and the ADK.
Probably chewed some of the same brush along the way.

Cheers.

Edit - I live in Northern Virginia now - didn't want to mislead you.

 

[Pondoro]

Well , Mr. Gunner , l am a member of a local shooting club . Our country used to be a British Colony less than 70 years ago. And a LOT of Vintage Double rifles and Mauser action Rifles are still used by many of our club members. Some were family heirlooms , passed down from Father to Son. Others were sold by the families of the original owners after they passed away. These guns just like sitting around in some " used " section of our local gun stores until somebody picks them up. Many of the members in our local shooting club are hunters who use British Fire Arms. Since, we are a pretty tightly knit community in the club and all ( having known each other for years and going deer hunting together ) , the other guys let you shoot a few rounds from their piece now and them , if you let them shoot yours .
And then , of course you have a few of those rich elder gentlemen who actually have Brand new doubles from England made for them.
No joke , there are 5 gun stores in our city ( including one INSIDE the shooting club ) .3 of them currently have at least ONE second hand double rifle up for sale , in the " used " section . We also have more than a few Holland and Holland Shotguns and Westley Richards shotguns in some of those stores.
Currently , one of the stores has had this really beautiful Holland and Holland Royal .500/450 Cordite Double Rifle lying around in the used gun section for about 8 months. The store owner told me than no one wants to buy it because .500/450 Cordite ammunition isn't made anymore. Some day , if l can find a good supply of brass cases and reloading components , maybe l will sell my Rigby and Get that Holland and Holland.

.500/450 ammunition is available from Kynoch(Kynamco) in England...at least they still advertise it..

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/cartridge collection.html

 

[4 Bore]

.500/450 ammunition is available from Kynoch(Kynamco) in England...at least they still advertise it..

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/cartridge collection.html

Thank you so much . But l do believe it is a discontinued product as it has been out of stock for quite some time.
Do you have any idea what year Holland and Holland stopped making rifles in the .500/450 Cordite caliber ? And why ?

 

[Pondoro]

The .450 Nitro Express was the first Nitro Express, developed around 1898 by John Rigby. This cartridge was based on the then popular .450 Black Powder Express case with 70 grains (5 g) of Cordite and a 480-grain (31 g) jacketed bullet. Muzzle velocity is listed at 2,150 feet per second (655 m/s) with 4,909 ft⋅lbf (6,656 J) of muzzle energy. This straight case has a length of 3.25 in (83 mm) with a .670 in (17.0 mm) rim.[1]

Early cartridges used the black powder case that was designed for around 22,000 psi and not the 34,000 psi that the Cordite load generated. Case extraction was difficult, especially in warmer climates such as Africa and India where the cartridge was primarily used. To remedy this problem, a reinforced case was produced and Kynoch made a reduced load to lower the case pressure. Another problem lay in the sensitivity of Cordite, loads developed in the cool British climate performed differently in the tropical heat of Africa and India, resulting in excessive pressures. The manufacturers responded by developing "tropical loads" with reduced propellant.[2]

These initial problems led to Holland & Holland developing the .500/450 Nitro Express and Eley Brothers developing the .450 No 2 Nitro Express, both of which offered very similar performance to the original .450 Nitro Express. By the time these two cartridges appeared, the early issues with the .450 Nitro Express had been resolved, and it quickly became the most popular and widely used Elephant hunting round.[2]

Following the British Army 1907 ban of .450 caliber ammunition into India and the Sudan, instead of developing their own replacement Rigby adopted Joseph Lang's .470 Nitro Express as their standard NE double rifle cartridge.[1] By the time the ban was lifted the .470 NE had largely supplanted the .450 NE as the industry's most popular elephant cartridge, and Mauser's Gewehr 98 bolt actioned rifles offered cheaper alternatives to the expensive double rifles required by the Nitro Express cartridges.

Holland& Holland replaced the .500/450 with the .500/465 for the same reason..it is ballistically equal to the former..

 

[4 Bore]

The .450 Nitro Express was the first Nitro Express, developed around 1898 by John Rigby. This cartridge was based on the then popular .450 Black Powder Express case with 70 grains (5 g) of Cordite and a 480-grain (31 g) jacketed bullet. Muzzle velocity is listed at 2,150 feet per second (655 m/s) with 4,909 ft⋅lbf (6,656 J) of muzzle energy. This straight case has a length of 3.25 in (83 mm) with a .670 in (17.0 mm) rim.[1]

Early cartridges used the black powder case that was designed for around 22,000 psi and not the 34,000 psi that the Cordite load generated. Case extraction was difficult, especially in warmer climates such as Africa and India where the cartridge was primarily used. To remedy this problem, a reinforced case was produced and Kynoch made a reduced load to lower the case pressure. Another problem lay in the sensitivity of Cordite, loads developed in the cool British climate performed differently in the tropical heat of Africa and India, resulting in excessive pressures. The manufacturers responded by developing "tropical loads" with reduced propellant.[2]

These initial problems led to Holland & Holland developing the .500/450 Nitro Express and Eley Brothers developing the .450 No 2 Nitro Express, both of which offered very similar performance to the original .450 Nitro Express. By the time these two cartridges appeared, the early issues with the .450 Nitro Express had been resolved, and it quickly became the most popular and widely used Elephant hunting round.[2]

Following the British Army 1907 ban of .450 caliber ammunition into India and the Sudan, instead of developing their own replacement Rigby adopted Joseph Lang's .470 Nitro Express as their standard NE double rifle cartridge.[1] By the time the ban was lifted the .470 NE had largely supplanted the .450 NE as the industry's most popular elephant cartridge, and Mauser's Gewehr 98 bolt actioned rifles offered cheaper alternatives to the expensive double rifles required by the Nitro Express cartridges.

Holland& Holland replaced the .500/450 with the .500/465 for the same reason..it is ballistically equal to the former..

Thank you , Pondoro . Do you have any idea which H&H catalog was the last to offer the .500/450 ? I know that the 1910 catalog still offered them.

 

[Pondoro]

I have no idea...you can ask H&H per e-mail..

 

[IvW]

If money was no issue I would love to have doubles in 450/400 3" NE, 450 No 2 and 500 3 1/4 NE

 

[BeeMaa]

If money was no issue I would love to have doubles in 450/400 3" NE, 450 No 2 and 500 3 1/4 NE

That would be one hell of a big bore battery.
The cost of ammo alone to run those firearms would be taxing to say the least.
However, I understand that it's different when it's your profession, not just something we do after work.

 

[Pondoro]

If money was no issue I would love to have doubles in 450/400 3" NE, 450 No 2 and 500 3 1/4 NE

I second that choice...but why the 500 1/4..over the .500..? I guess you think ele with the latter...so why not pick a .577...that would presumably match the .500 Jeffery I know you use..?

 

[IvW]

I second that choice...but why the 500 1/4..over the .500..? I guess you think ele with the latter...so why not pick a .577...that would presumably match the .500 Jeffery I know you use..?

500 NE out penetrates the 577 NE

The 3 1/4 operates at lower pressure, I would take advantage of that to up the velocity by loading to the 3" pressures. I would then have the rifle regulated with these loads, which would give me that extra 100 to 150 Fps which would put it closer to the performance level of the 500 Jeff which is the most powerful and devastatingly effective caliber I have used and seen used on DG.

This would then correctly stated be my Elephant rifle.

 

[cal pappas]

IvW:
I have vintage doubles in .450-400x3, .450 no2, and .500 but my rifle is the 3". I have used all three as well as my vintage .600 in Africa, Alaska, and Australia. All are amazing and I don't know why men developed anything more than those 3 or 4. All hae good history with them, are cased, and great fun to shoot.

At the first of the year I will post about the upcoming Alaska double rifle shoot. May 4 and all here are welcome to attend. You can shoot any and all of the 50+ doubles there, a machine gun or two, howdah pistols, and we'll even feed you lunch.
Cal

 

[Moosemind]

Take a look at Austrian, village of Ferlach, region Carinthia, several gunmakers families owned for generations, and their doubles.
Less known to American hunters - maybe. But very very fine.

What Schul, or Oberndorf is for Germany, Brescia for Italy, Liege for Belgium, - then village of Ferlach is for Austria.

Make your research for following new doubles or 2nd hand as well:

- Fanzoj
- Borownik
- Franz Sodia
- Peter Hofer
- Koschat Jakob
- Karl Hauptman

Just like for Holland and Holland, I have never heard of any flaws of these hand crafted firearms. Worth taking look into.

Some links:
https://www.austria.info/uk/service-facts/handcrafts-and-traditions/ferlach-master-gunsmiths

I have five Ferlach doubles and next year will be six and seven.

 

[AZDAVE]

Interesting question from the hypothetical and financial stand point

I have handled a number of the high dollar double but haven't shot them yet (Need to hit the power ball lottery) If price is no object Holland and Holland, Westley Richard, Rigby. If you have a budget Verney Carron, Chapuis, Hyem.

I have experience and owned over the years with several different brands of double and will rank them from best working/fit/craftsmanship etc. Just my .02 opinion
Current in descending order Verney Carron, Chapuis, SAICE, Zoli, Rizinni, Merkel, Sabatti and a POS remington/russian bakail. would hunt Africa of anywhere else in the world with all; but the POS, it is good for paper, hogs and a canoe paddle.

Antique, all are of equal status and were working a man's rifles Woodward and Sons, I. Hollis and Sons, Simson, and JP Sauer and Shons

 

[rookhawk]

"English" meaning made in England or made in the English style?
Heym and Merkel...I believe they are both made in Germany but in the English style.
And I will make the assumption that you would put these both in the "more affordable" class.

There is nothing English style out of a Merkel or the older Heyms. There is a new Heym that is English styled...a first for a non-British double rifle.