Your opinion on Best Caliber for plainsgame in Africa?

[AlSpaeth]

"375 Holland loaded with a 260 gr. premium bullet."

Should be an interesting combo.
As for recoil - remember a new rifle is a lot cheaper than an "ex-wife".

 

[Primo661]

To be fair, the whitetail video I mentioned may be some idiot who thinks hunting is a boasting contest and exagerated the range and what the bullet did or did not hit, apologies for not making that clear, I was in a bit of a rush when I typed it. I can't remember what heads we were using on the impala, for all I know we were using R1M1 military ammo. I was about 13 when it happened and I've never seen anything like it since.
As for head shots, its my personal preference and definately would not recommend it unless you know what you're doing- actually, I've always discouraged it to new hunters. I must say, we've been lucky with respect to not wounding more animals with head shots(only one jaw shot off between my dad and myself ever).

I may be wrong about meat damage with a 300 win mag but, the last warthog(and only) I shot with one donated its shoulders to the dog food bowl. Maybe I'm just too picky!

The point I was trying to make was that, as much as your rifle is capable of, it will only do what you're capable of.

Second wind, I couldn't agree more! A 375 is perfect, if you've got the wallet for it. Over her, many of us(due to gun laws limiting a citizen to a total of 4 firearms and many farms not having anything bigger than eland) don't need or can't afford or can't legally own a 375 because they already have 4 firearms. For these reasons, it makes sense for us to use what's available or a calibre that fits their intended game. If you're coming from oversea's, a 375 will do all your bidding(don't worry too much about meeting a beasty in the bush, that's what you PH is there for )!

 

[enysse]

I would like to chip in and add my 2 cents here. Bill is absolutely right in the fact that most American hunters come to africa overgunned, but be under no illusions regarding the toughness of African game. Saying it is not tougher than north American game of comparitive size is a falacy refuted by most suitably experienced hunters(especially ones that have learn't the hard way). I've seen an impala run 300 meters with a lung shot that broke both shoulders from a 308 at 60 meters and a warthog that was hit twice with a 308 from 100 meters, both perfect lung shots and we found it a couple hundreds meters away after picking up a handful of flesh on the other side of where it was standing when it was hit(no joke!). My first impala was botched befond belief, I broke both front legs as the bullet passed through the sternum below the heart, it ran for a long way before a follow u shot dropped it. I may not have hunted the US but, I was doing some research on ballistics for a new antelope rifle, I ended up watching videos of some hunting in the US, one video in particular stood out. A guy took a shot at 700yds with a 243 at a whitetail and the bullet hit low, breaking the left front leg and sternum and it was almost as if it were a heart shot. It dropped on the spot and didnt so much as twitch after 30 seconds(how it happened, I cant fathom). Disregarding this as a fluke, I also saw numerous other videos showing north American game going down easily(comparitively). This is just the way it seems to be.

My two cents is you have not hunted whitetail deer. They are tough as hell some days. Their toughness is legendary. I have seen all sorts of bad shot whitetails...end up miles away and later in the season...some heal their wounds and others die....same as Africa. Africa game is not different than any other game on this planet...they have skin, bones, blood vessels, heart, lung...etc. I think it's wise to be overgunned...because wounding animals comes with a price tag. Bigger is sometimes better. But as usual people take it to supreme levels.

Yes, people in North America are shooting antelope, deer and elk at crazy ranges of about 1000 yards....its a sick little game or turning hunting into a snipping game. I don't care for it at all...that's my opinion. There are some excellent shooters out there. Maybe I've seen one to many windy days...but how can you shoot at something when the wind varies so greatly? And feel ethical about the shot? Some people are alright about it. Me not so much....I hate losing game and wounding game...it bothers me.

I think people are overgunned most days...but it's there right to be overgunned.

 

[416Tanzan]

It's the bullet that does the work. And that needs to be remembered in all these many posts.

Of the above calibres, I have used all on African plains game except the 358s and the 308.

So let's think about a platform for a bullet.
A bullet needs to be prepared for a poor scenario. Almost anything can take a perfect broadside slipped into the heart behind the shoulder. what we are discussing is something that can reliably take a shot through a backleg/stomach diagonally through the chest. I leave out a pure rear-ender as something reserved for flat-nosed solids.
The 270 Win with a 130 TTSX might do a diagonal shot on a roan antelope. I've taken quite a few African animals with a 270 but it is, afterall, a pretty small little bullet. I would use a 270 gladly on a hunt, but that is only saying that I would gladly go on a hunt. I would choose to use a bigger, heavier bullet.

For Africa, 300 yards is a long shot and only about 1% of your hunting will be at 400 yards. Some will just pass up that 1%, others will include it. Either way, an accurate rifle shooting 2800 fps with a decent BC will handle a 400 yard shot with around an 18" drop, something that is certainly doable on a large animal that might justify a 400 yard shot (eland, roan, kudu). Anything over 200 yards needs a steady rest and a steady hand, so the rest for a 400 yard shot needs to be rock solid and comfortable, or no shot.

If we use 2800 fps as a bench mark and start looking at the calibre list we will see that they all qualify, with maybe the 308 dropping out because of wanting the more heavily weighted 30 cal projectiles. The 30-06/300s shoot the same bullet and are slightly better than the 270/7mm. However, the 338s trump the 30 calibres, also by a very slight margin. The 338s have so many great bullets that I voted for the 338 in the poll. I've used the 338 extensively in Africa with full satisfaction and have seen it do a decent job on buffalo where it was legal. However, the 375 can do more and it's bullet selection has been improving over the years. Barnes just came out with a 250 TTSX. Pretty inviting. It starts to be a question of what size a rifle one wants to carry. The 338 is great but the 375 Ruger has just moved into the turf of the 338 and carries the whack of a 375.

Having said all of the above, I need to go one level further up. The 416Rigby, handloaded with 350 grain bullets, also meets the 2800 fps benchmark. The Rigby is a delight to shoot in the four that I have had and they handle the above load easily. As many have said, the reason for the bigger, deep penetrating bullets is insurance in hunting situations. One wants to easily retrieve game. And the Rigby handles buffalo a tad better than the 375 while matching its flatness. So my one-gun, walkabout, plains game rifle choice is -- a handloaded 416 Rigby. But I would like to try out the new 375 Ruger and would never consider a 338 WM too light for plains game hunting. Or even a 270 if it were that or no hunting. (For my 120 lb wife we are going to try dowloading the 416 to 350 grain 2450-2500 fps this year. Have her step up from a 338.)

 

[Second Wind]

AlSpaeth - having personally had both I can vouch for the accuracy of your statement!

 

[Xpraetor]

Another vote for .30-06

I voted for the .30-06 because I have in lever action, bolt action and semi-auto. Although, if I were were going for the lager species and had the extra cash for another rifle I would pick the .338 Win Mag (for plains game only hunt). I've not been to Africa, but would take my .30-06 instead of buying another rifle just for that trip.


AlSpaeth,
Thank you for your posts I have thoroughly enjoyed reading them, partly because of your view on the .30-06 caliber. In your post- linked below- you wrote what my mentor taught/preached to me.

http://www.africahunting.com/hunting-africa/773-best-caliber-plainsgame-africa-your-opinion-6.html#post18836

I have advocated for a very long time the superlatives of the .30-06. As a Guide I carry my .30-06 (usually my lever action) the majority of the time, with exception to Black Bear hunting then I carry a .405 Win in lever action (I prefer lever action because I can cycle it faster than bolt action). In my years, no client who brought a .30-06 has wasted a tag, the same can not be said for those who brought lesser calibers. Even with marginal shot placement game don't travel far.

In the end I have come to the realization that what ever caliber a hunter picks he/she should spend time practicing with that rifle. If you know how your rifle performs and are accurate then you have increased your chances for success.

 

[sestoppelman]

Anecdotal "evidence" of how tough any particular game is, sort of goes against logic. Any animal can and will go a distance with a heart or lung shot, and it doesnt matter on which continent they reside. Everyone can point to examples of a kudu, eland, bushbuck, deer, elk etc etc that "went for miles with a perfect hit". Basically its nonsense. If that happened something was amiss. Either the bullet didnt perform or the shot was off or something. As to little animals running around for hundreds of yards, with both shoulders "broke", thats one I would have to see. A shot that broke both shoulders on an animal will also do a huge amount of internal damage and likely put that animal DRT!

 

[B9.3]

True, provided the projectile suits the cartridge. A ballistic tip in a 308 and 30.06 is very good and takes lots of game. It is a poor choice for a 300 Weatherby. Shot placement is paramount, projectile choice is right up it's clacker. The same applies to the Nosler Partition. It is very good in 270 & 30.06 for most big game however in the 300 Weatherby it breaks up on Sambar. I have seen good placement fail because of poor bullet choice. I prefer thru and thru with mine. The 300 Weatherby with 180gr North Fork, Swift A-Frame or the 168gr Barnes TSX will take any animal on this planet with good shot placement and penetrate very deep from all angles. These projectiles have greatly improved the performance of the 300 mags. I have been hunting for 44 years and I have been disappointed in the past with the performance of my 270wby, 7mmwby and my 300wby with sierras and others. The ballistic tip in the 7mm was a disaster as it just made splash wounds. These days I have the utmost confidence in my rifles thanks to the excellent bullets we now have.

 

[WyoWes]

I've taken a liking to my 300 WSM, with 180gr Scrocco bullet. My wife and I have taken all our plains game with this caliber and it's performed very well. Very good penetration without alot of skin damage. I've taken Sable, kudu, impala, springbok, aand it seems to do well.

 

[ILCAPO]

Being new to this forum back in January, this was one of the questions I had and it erupted into a big discussion, with comments much like what I see herein.

I made my decision, and it's basically because the "myth" of African game being super-tough and requiring a cannon to dispatch cleanly was disspelled.

"The .338 Win Mag is a fine caliber but -- if I were a PH and a client showed up with one or something heavier -- I would want to see how he handled its recoil before I put him farther than 50-60 yards from an animal. A great many people simply cannot handle the .33s, 35s, and larger."

Bill Quimby

The above is right on the mark. Being I'm recoil shy, and not too proud to admit it, my choice, after doing a lot of reading, discussing, and thinking things through, is the .35 Whelen, which is much like the 9.3x62mm Mauser.

It can be loaded down like a .30-06, or loaded up almost to 9.3x62 energy levels. That's IF I was forced to bring only one gun. Being I'm not, then it will be the .35 Whelen AND my newly acquired .30-06, which is a new-build barreled action looking for some furniture. It is a Santa Barbara Mauser, has a 24-inch barrel, some lovely engraving, and is all set to go, only in need of a stock and Optics. It's already drilled and tapped for a scope. As soon as I save up some mullah for the right wood and scope, I'll be looking to complete it.

This said, I do have one question here. There's a lot said about European Optics (30mm versus one inch tube varieties). I will never be able to afford -- nor wish to spend the kind of money required -- to purchase a Schmidt and Bender or some of the other pricey Euro-scopes. My question is, would it even matter for hunting in Africa? Do 30mm tubes offer more that can even be used there?

In a discussion with a sales manager with Zeiss here in the U.S., I was told it's a moot point for hunting in the USA because any advantage you get is in the twilight hours, which is off limits for anything but some predator hunting here. He said European hunts can take place in the night hours and that's where the advantage comes in. Since we do not have night hunting here, it's money spent for nothing, which is why they, Swarovski, Khales, and some other makers came out with the one-inch line for the U.S. market.

Any comments?

 

[enysse]

One inch are cheaper! I have never felt the need for anything more. I love Leupold scopes...you'll have haters of them on here. But they get the job done for me. I never buy anything more than a 40mm lense too. I don't like the extra size and weight...it all detracks from the looks of the rifle and carry ability of the rifle.

If someone wants to spend the money on the big scopes go ahead...but for the budget guy it won't buy you much satisfaction.

I like 10x 42 mm SLC Swarovski binoculars...they are worth there weight in gold. If you can't glass and find game...that is a real problem. Buy good binoculars and cut down the budget on scopes. Schmidt and Bender are overpriced..my two cents.

 

[416Tanzan]

"The .338 Win Mag is a fine caliber but -- if I were a PH and a client showed up with one or something heavier -- I would want to see how he handled its recoil ..." Bill Quimby

The above is right on the mark. ... my choice, after doing a lot of reading, discussing, and thinking things through, is the .35 Whelen, which is much like the 9.3x62mm Mauser.

Something happens after you've been around buffalo. All of a sudden a single shove of a rifle is reassuring rather than intimidating. I would absolutely agree that a person should first show that they can handle the rifle, but that being a given, even Jack OConnor liked the .416 Rigby at just over its factory settings. As for the 338 WM, isn't that petite little Coni Brooks' "go to" rifle? Attitudes change when the game is afoot, and recoil is all about attitude.

On scopes, Africa sometimes has one looking into shadowy, thick bushy stuff during full daylight hours, so good glass is not wasted. However, good eye relief is right up there as a need. The low power side is also a criterion. Some hunters cannot go beyond 1.5x for fast and short acquisition, others can use 2.0 (like the Nikon 2-8), or 2.6 (like the Leopold 2.5-8), or 3.0 at the low end (fixed or multiple). Personally, I've chosen the Nikon 2-8 because its solidly built, good eye relief, good glass, and a range that I use, both at low ends (for carrying and up close) and high ends (2800 fps in a .416 can use higher magnification for 200-400 yards). Lots of good optics out there and each must choose their specific compromise.

 

[ILCAPO]

Thanks enysse...

I have one Leupold in my hunting battery. It's the first scope I ever bought; a VariX-III 2-8x32mm. This topped off my first rifle, a Browning A-bolt hunter in 7mm Remington Magnum. It was recommended by the Colorado gun shop I went to in 1986. I was told my best choice would be between that or a .30-06. I took the 7 Mag because of its longer range/flatter shooting, which would be handy in the Rocky Mountains.

I've since topped the Browning A-bolt with a Browning scope, 3-12x40mm, and put that Leupold on one of my newer deer rifle acquisitions -- a 1933/34 built Savage Model 99 in .250 Savage. I love that little gun and scope combination... took a nice little doe this year with it at 70 yards - an off-hand shot at the back of the left shoulder which broke three ribs, turned right, went through both lungs, and took out three more ribs on the far side. Stopped just short... didn't penetrate the skin.

Anyway, Leupold are certainly great, but often pretty heft in price in comparison to some others. I have several Nikon Monarchs, a Pentax, several Burris, and a few others. My favorites are probably the Burris scopes. I have two Signatures series and a Euro-diamond, all lit reticle types. Any of the better brands are up to snuff these days. I think Leupold used to be the cream dela cream of scopes years ago. They're still great, it's just that a number of other makers have since come out with much better products, putting themselves up at the same or near same level, with a few being more affordable.

I have a Burris Signature 1.5-6x32mm electrodot on my .35 Whelen. I'm thinking that Euro-Diamond 3-10x40mm I bought for my 7x57 Mauser might be well suited for the .30-06. What do you think? I got a great price on it through Natchez Shooting Supply... it was being discontinued due to lack of sales. Not surprising being they were retailing for about $900 a pop. I got mine for $469.00.

 

[ILCAPO]

416Tanzan.

I'm sure it's true you can't be overgunned if hunting in an area where you could run into any of the big five by accident. In that case, my .35 Whelen with hotter loads I think would be sufficient for all but elephant and rhino. But I understand there are quite a number of hunting concessions in RSA where you're not likely to run into such animals. So, the need is far less.

 

[enysse]

I have bought a lot of gear from Natchez Shooting Supply. I like Nikon scopes too. Nothing wrong with Burris! I bought a lot of my scopes on clearance whenever Leupold decided to upgrade for a song and dance. I have never paid over $400 for my scopes...always watched for a sale. I have all plain duplex reticles. I have kept it simple.

 

[ILCAPO]

Me too! I got the Browning scope, a Nikon Monarch 3.5-10x50mm with dual (red/green) lit reticle, and my latest, the Burris Euro-Diamond, from Natchez, on sale, as they were being discontinued. I say let the rich folk pay full price! I'll take a good hand-me-down gun or discontinued scope anyday. I don't need the latest product, just a good solid one.

That's how my wife and I wound up with a lovely 3-year old E-500 sedan for an incredible price. We were shopping for a new car for her a couple years ago, and I wasn't getting any bites on my 2002 Z-28, in pristene condition. So, we followed a friend's advice and took it to CarMax for a quote because they buy cars sometimes without you buying from them. I was offered a very fair price -- full trade in value according to Kelly's Blue Book, which was way more than any dealer, including Chevy themselves, were offering in a trade in. We then walked around the lot just to see what they had. I never really considered Car Max before, but this was a great experience. We wound up in the right place at the right time. Someone turned in a like-new, low mileage, fully loaded Mercedes E-500, which should have been selling at a dealer for $38,000 (originally $58,000), but because they didn't service it at a Mercedes dealership the whole time, it couldn't be sold as a certified used car, and somehow wound up on auction and Car Max bought it and we found it for $29,900.

We've had it for 2 1/2 years as a third car -- we decided to keep my wife's Honda and use the Mercedes part time -- and we're tickled pink with it.

There's no way I would pay $58,000 for a car. That's impractical. We don't even want to pay $40,000. About $30,000 is our limit.

Well, we did it again. Last year my wife got the ich for a new car again. She sold her old 1996 Honda Civic to her boss, who wanted it, and we got her another car, in another incredible deal. She fell in love with a sports car, and we got her this 2008 Infiniti G37S with only 13,500 miles on it for under $30K. Original price was $45K.

Again, discontinued products or slightly used premium products are the way to go for anyone who can't afford the full price. You don't give up any quality. Just bragging rights. And who needs the latter?

 

[416Tanzan]

I have bought a lot of gear from Natchez Shooting Supply. I like Nikon scopes too. Nothing wrong with Burris! I bought a lot of my scopes on clearance whenever Leupold decided to upgrade for a song and dance. I have never paid over $400 for my scopes...always watched for a sale. I have all plain duplex reticles. I have kept it simple.

And IlCapo

With Burris on the heavier calibres one needs to check eye-relief. Many of the Burris scopes go down to 3.1" inch eye-relief at the higher magnifications, though a couple of them only go down to 3.5" at the high setting. Personally, I prefer to stay closer to 4" at the high magnification setting, though I compromise with the Nikon 2-8 with its 3.8" at 8-power. Every quarter inch helps with heavier calibres. Nikon is pretty constant, having 4.0" at the lower settings. One of my complaints on the Leupold 2.6-7.8 [real figures] (I've had three and loved them) is that the eye-relief drops down to 3.5-3.6". I would limit a 3.5" eye-relief scope to a 338 WM, max.
3" is for 270's and 7-08's.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

If I couldn't afford top quality rifle optics straight out, I'd shop around until I found excellent glass at a good price. I'd also cut corners on the price of the rifle to come up with the funds for the best glass I could find. Unless you are taking REALLY long shots, shooting the animals is not as hard as seeing them.

At least half the animals I shot in Africa (two trips) were at last or near-last light, where the good optics come into play. The difference between a junk scope and a last-a-lifetime top of the line Swarovski is $2000, and then only if you are paying full retail. If the budget situation is such that $2000 is critical, I would argue that you absolutely need to make every minute of a trip to Africa count, because that trip represents a lot of cutting back and saving.

A rich guy might be able to afford cheap optics. I can't: when that Kudu came out at last light on the last day of my trip, it was shoot now or book another ($4000) flight. I'm glad I had the good glass, and I'm glad I took and made the shot. My budget just doesn't support cutting back on optics quality.

I'll be the first to admit that it is diminishing returns with optics. A 30mm Swarovski might be only 10% brighter than a scope that costs 50% less. But, the animals are most active when that 10% matters, and an extra 15 minutes of shooting light because of the scope might mean almost twice the shooting opportunity.

I'm with ILCAPO on the used cars.

 

[ILCAPO]

BTT...

Thanks for the feedback. One thing I'll say is, most any decent rifle will shoot well enough. Super accuracy for hunting guns is far less important than competition pieces. While < MOA is nice, it's not necessary. For most hunting situations, one isn't likely to be shooting more than 300 yards. At least many hunters really have no business shooting at more than that in most circumstances. That said, a 1 1/2 inch group at 100 yards means 3 inches at 200 yards and 6 inches at 300 yards, which is plenty sufficient to ensure a shot to the breadbasket if the shooter does his/her part.

What is critical, like you said, is the glass. A decent rifle with top optics will beat out a tack-driver topped off with a piece of junk optics anyday by any shooter.

I bought a lovely custom rifles about 9 years ago at my local gun shop in 6mm Remington. The owner, a federal agent, was going overseas and couldn't bring it with, so put it up for sale on consignment. After it sat there for a while, I nabbed it. I got it for $600 and it would easily have cost me $900 to build one like it, even with a lesser action. It turns out, once I pulled the piece of crap Tasco 6-18 scope off of it, the gun was built on a 1913 German Mauser! It was fitted with a 24" Douglas Premium barrel in 6mm Remington, polished nicely, and put in a tiger stripe maple stock. Like I said, even with a lesser action it would have cost me at least $900 to duplicate.

I moved the optics to my Ruger No. 1 in .22-250 and tried it out on prarie dogs. IT SUCKED! Out of 20 or so shots, I only hit two animals. Everything else was a near miss, but a miss at anyrate, even at a mere 150 yards! Turns out, every time I changed the power setting, it threw the point of impact off. Parallax was for crap!

A friend of mine likes Tasco. He's definately a budget guy; can't afford anything more. So, I simply gave it to him. Replaced it with a 6-24 Elite 4200. I'm looking forward to shooting that and to see how that scope works. It's a very nice piece. Much cleaner glass than most everything else I looked at. It matched the Leupold I was looking at for clarity and crispness, but was $400 rather than $650. So, I went with the Bushnell Elite.

I don't do junk optics. But at the same time, I can't see spending $2,000 for a scope. Besides, my wife would KILL me if I did such a thing! ; )

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Second hand custom guns may be the only deal better than a good used car. You almost never get out of them near what went into them, which means on the buyer side, they can be a great deal. Sounds like a major score on the 6mm! There's well more than $600 in materials alone in that rifle, and good gunsmiths don't work cheap.