Wyoming Senate File 103: Mar 2021 proposal to raise cost of non-resident tags

[longbow70]

This is really nothing new Wyoming residents have been screaming for years to get the number of nonresident hunters reduced. I personally feel that this is just a few politicians trying to gain some points with the locals.

You know since that is supposedly who elected them, and therefore whom they represent...

 

[Hogpatrol]

These types of bills are usually the result of someone who got or keeps getting shut out of their desired animal or hunt location. In Pennsylvania, there is a proposal to limit antlerless tags to four in possession. On this, my guess is one of the commissioners' relative, friend or political patron cried that they didn't get their license. The reality is there is plenty of time (months) to apply and receive at least one. Some WMUs have over the counter after the initial sales but some sell out quickly. One just needs to stay on top of the application period and get it in as soon as they start accepting them. Bottom line, the one responsible for not getting their license can be found in the mirror.

 

[DFC4545]

All of this is what makes hunting in Africa so appealing. For the same money, or less, than a guided western hunt where you might get one shot at one elk a hunter can take numerous quality trophies.

 

[JimP]

But Africa still doesn't offer elk, mule deer, pronghorn, whitetails, and a number of other animals.

But it does offer it's own unique animals that for the most part you have to travel to Africa to hunt

 

[Firebird]

I’m with Jim-let’s all go spend some money in Africa!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I received a reply from one of the Wyoming State Senators:

Hello,

Thanks for your email. This bill did not pass out of committee. The issues that were brought up will be moved to the Wildlife Task Force and hopefully they will find solutions that will be acceptable for both sides. Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Wendy Davis Schuler
Wyoming State Legislature
Senate District 15—Evanston
200 Liberty Avenue
307-679-6774

 

[Muskox]

I got the same email.

We will see what the future brings, but I think more states will do it. Wyoming residents are pretty tired of WYOGA, even those that rely on part of their annual revenue from hunters.

Wyoming will probably adopt that kind of a rule in the future, as most states will.

As we grow in population the necessity of out of state dollars will dwindle. Even in little old Wyoming.

 

[jduckhunter]

I got the same email.

We will see what the future brings, but I think more states will do it. Wyoming residents are pretty tired of WYOGA, even those that rely on part of their annual revenue from hunters.

Wyoming will probably adopt that kind of a rule in the future, as most states will.

As we grow in population the necessity of out of state dollars will dwindle. Even in little old Wyoming.

Nothing personal but I hope you are wrong.

 

[Scott CWO]

I live in New Mexico, we give out 6% in an outfitter pool and 4% in a non-resident non outfitter pool. The other 90% goes to residents.

Public land is a matter of opinion, this has been debated by everyone under the sun and federal laws says that wildlife is owned by the state. You can complain about the small amount of non-resident tags if you like, but it won't change anything. The state owns wildlife, if you want a bigger piece of the pie move to Wyoming.

I have points in Wyoming as well, not as many as you do but I have been using mine along the way.

Points do not equal a shared ownership of wildlife. You bought points in hopes that at some time in the future the points would equal a tag. The points you bought are kind of like being the 30th person down in a pyramid scheme especially for sheep and moose. Due to point creep you will be lucky if your 19 points equal a tag in the next 5 years if ever. The backlog of sheep hunters continues. This year you have about a .25% chance of drawing a tag in 8, 5, 4, 3 and 2 not in any particular order. Every year more people who have been sitting on the sidelines and not applying jump in and insure that point creep pushes you down 2-3 points.

This happened to be in a unit I used to hunt antelope in as a resident. It used to take 5 non-resident points. Then last year it took 7. I had 7, but I was one of 5 people that didn't draw a tag.

If you are sitting on 19 moose points there are multiple places you could have drawn this year.

Wyoming doesn't owe us anything we don't live there or pay taxes, and the code of federal regulations outlines that states control 100% of all non-migratory wildlife. So we get what we get.

Besides as much as I hate to see the rising cost of licenses and the decrease in quotas, if I lived in Wyoming I would want more for residents. Just like I am sure if you had a natural resource where you lived you would want it aimed at residents.

Here in New Mexico these idiot residents are screaming for a points system. Just look at the problem is causes in Colorado and Wyoming.

I couldn’t disagree with your last paragraph more strongly. Colorado has the best draw system of any western state. In 98% of our elk, deer and pronghorn units we can fully and easily predict the draw. Hunters and outfitters can easily book hunts with the required amount of points and both know that the trip is happening. Only a few of our elk units such as units 2, 10, 201, 76 and 61 have an October 1st rifle bull hunt and so few tags that the points go up and up. These units should be thought of as sheep-type odds of drawing and people who complain about those few hunts should not be allowed to change the rest of our draw system that works great throughout the rest of the state and is FULLY predictable.

As for our CO sheep, goat and moose draw system, I was one of 20 stakeholders that designed it after evaluating all the draws of all the other western states. We had meetings around the state and had to come up with a consensus 20-0 vote to make a recommendation to the Wildlife Commission. Our recommendation passed the Commission 9-0. Our weighted system allows a newer applicant to have a chance to draw starting in the 4th year of applying after accumulating 3 points. This gives younger and newer applicants a chance but makes them pay their dues for at least 3 years before they have a chance at drawing a tag that someone else has waited on for many more years. In years 4 and onwards, applicants receive a weighted point instead of a true preference point which helps but still doesn’t guarantee a tag. It does reward the applicants with most years of applying and gives them an advantage over applicants with less time in the system but everyone after 3 years has a weighted chance. Every applicant receives a 6-digit random number. What you need to draw is a really low random number. This number changes every year. Your random number is then divided by your weighted points plus 1. So if you have 12 weighted points, you random number is divided by 13. Then these new numbers are sorted from lowest to highest. The first tag is awarded to the applicant with the lowest number and so forth until the tags are gone. This system is way more fair than a completely random system like the one in NM where someone can draw the first year or multiple times in their lifetime while others NEVER draw. (We evaluated the data and this does happen).

The draw is really easy to complain about because the amount of tags are so limited that you cannot satisfy the demand no matter what you do. People complain no matter what. However, in Colorado, our sheep, moose and goat draw system is the most fair when you evaluate all points of view. Younger people have a chance but not as good a chance as long term applicants. What more can you do? Running a true preference points system for severely limited sheep, goat and moose tags would mean that unless you applied in the first year of the system, you would NEVER draw. We didn’t want that but we did want to reward the most loyal long term applicants with a better chance to draw. The only other really fair system out there is in Nevada where all applicants have a chance but points are squared, giving loyal applicants more chances.

Some people want a totally random draw like NM so they think they have a chance every year. Actually this is the least fair system.

 

[JimP]

If anyone wonders just where Wyoming DWR gets their funding from here is a link for you to see just where.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

 

[R.M.C.]

I live on the east coast but have never really dreamed about hunting elk or mountain goats or anything "out west". The main reason is the cost of both a decent guide coupled with the expensive license and tags. Africa, and I dare say many parts of the world are are a better deal. Nothing against anyone who has fallen in love with elk and mulie hunting, it's just not on my bucket list. I'll spend my money in Africa

 

[Firebird]

Western hunts can be done cheaply-but a guide is sometimes worth the money. I was looking at an Alaska hunt when I booked my first African safari instead. figured if I was gonna drop 10k I would go to Africa and shoot the works instead of Alaska and maybe shoot two animals while my toes got cold.
Wyoming is one of my favorites, I hope they keep it available to all of us, but I do see both sides of the issue.
Africa again next next year and Alaska sometime and for now will spend more time and money hunting with friends and family in the cowboy state.

 

[JimP]

A person needs to decide on what he wants to hunt. If it is just a single animal and you want to increase your odds of success you will pay it. I spent $11,000 on a British Colombia grizzly hunt for 10 days, in those 10 days I saw one grizzly at 600 yards on the last day. A friend laughed at me saying that I could of went to Africa and hunted a dozen different animals for what I spent, but I told him that there are no grizzly bears in Africa.

For elk here in the western US there are thousands that come here to Colorado every year on a DIY hunt. It takes them a few years to learn the country but after that they become fairly successful. I have another friend who comes out here every year from Nebraska and he usually takes home a elk every year. It took him a while to figure out the area but once he did he has become quite successful.

 

[LivingTheDream]

The only other really fair system out there is in Nevada where all applicants have a chance but points are squared, giving loyal applicants more chances.

As you were explaining the CO draw, which statistically speaking by average draw is the most fair by defined as a balance of random and rewarding long term applicants, I was about to say the only thing close is Nevada where they square points.

I would say I like Colorado better where you only have 2 choices, the 5 choice in NV complicates things a bit. But if you have any influence in CO and can bring back the fronting of the tag fee, I would appreciate it.

 

[Scott CWO]

As you were explaining the CO draw, which statistically speaking by average draw is the most fair by defined as a balance of random and rewarding long term applicants, I was about to say the only thing close is Nevada where they square points.

I would say I like Colorado better where you only have 2 choices, the 5 choice in NV complicates things a bit. But if you have any influence in CO and can bring back the fronting of the tag fee, I would appreciate it.

The Colorado draw has four choices but the first one is the only one that uses or gains points. 2nd-4th choices do not work for high demand licenses.

I agree that NV is complicated by the 5 choices. Sometimes I leave a couple of them blank.

I would love it if CO made everyone pay license fees upfront again but it won’t change. The refund checks were a pain with several getting lost in the mail every year. Also hard to refund to a credit card due to expirations and fees. There was also CC fraud going on where criminals would charge the license fees to a CC, get the refund check and then never payoff the CC. Ruined it for us honest folks!

 

[Surgeon1]

As a Wyoming resident and a land owner in Wyoming, Colorado, and Kansas I'm sick of the Outfitters
Associations. The Colorado Land Owners draw for tags has become bastardized by outfitters into
a disaster for land owners who used to be able to draw tags to hunt their own land, now nonhunting landowners a paid a small amount to allow an outfitter to draw a voucher good in the entire unit and
sell it for an astronomical amount with a hunt they would otherwise not have access to!
Wyoming has an even more crazy system, and Utah which I've applied to for years is nearly impossible
to draw! Kansas simply sells all the tags they can and trophy quality has tanked!